Self: 3 trifectate best/Brannen best trey so far/Conner guards now/7 Perimeter guys won't play/Red Shirting Now Unspoken
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@jaybate-1.0 Sorry I haven’t been around this week to jump in on all your threads, but I have been reading and trying to keep up.
I think the scenario you have outlined here is right on. I feel like CF has been getting pushed with the recent comments from HCBS, and I think coach is putting out a lot of smoke screens with regards to talking up Graham and talking about moving Selden all over the court. My logic behind this is that, Mason and CF have been playing a lot on the court at the same time together in all the scrimmages this summer and late night. And quite honestly, from the bit of footage I’ve seen, they play well together. The team has a really nice pace to it when they are out there together.
CF will get his shot and Greene/Svi will be ready to go if he fails. Another thing he has going him is he can backup the 1 and 2, but if Graham can stretch the floor then that’s also an option. But this team will need the floor stretched as much as possible to help the small bigs inside. Another thing I’ve noticed from all the scrimmage footage is that CF seems to have a knack for staying in and getting long rebounds, as well as, knowing when to leak out to be ready for the outlet pass on short rebounds. We always seem to get burned on the long rebounds, and this year especially, every rebound will count.
As far as your other threads about Selden playing the 1 or 4, it seems to me that if HCBS wants to keep the OADs and TADs spigot open then he should play Selden at the 2 and let him sink or swim on his own. In other words, if Selden plays the 2 and can’t hit the 3 at 40%, then his draft stock is on him. If HCBS moves him all over the place and it hurts his draft stock then it’s on the coach, and may effect future recruiting. Personally, I think HCBS is very well hedged with the current roster to miss on a OAD 2 guard next year. I kind of hope he does because I want to see some of our depth get some pt.
Now the question of “can Selden be a good point guard?” Well, a wise man once told me that “as long as he can make the easy plays and stretch the spandex…”
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Robust take.
And I think you have hit on something important and rather inexcusably lacking in my analyses to date: REBOUNDING.
The litmus test for perimeter play should include an advanced degree in carom-ology given short bigs, just as you say.
Especially during stretches where our perimeter has mostly guys that are not 40% trey ballers, I would say your point takes on added gravity.
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I would not pay much attention to that mock draft; heck, most of the 2015 one and done have yet to decide where they will play and that will dictate go goes and who stays.
As far as Greene, he played so little that many of his turnovers are amplified (some of his passes to the bench were real boners) since we have so little to go by. You are right, Coach Self has made it clear that he is going back to the style that has been so successful for him and it starts with hard nose defense. The change in the foul rules last season wreaked havoc with Coach Self style of play, but one season and one off-season later to adapt, I will guess that KU will go back to being a top defensive team first.
“The team with a great defense coupled with a good offense will almost always defeat the team with a good defense and a great offense.” - Forrest Clare “Phog” Allen
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@JayHawkFanToo dang did I hate how the rule interpretations hurt us!
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@Crimsonorblue22 “do you always have to be so… So weird!!!”
Jaybate is like going to a chinese buffet - you fill your plate with items you like, and you pass over the “octopus surprise dish”. Rat foreskin smack talk is ‘octopus surprise’… lol.
BTW, the Crimson/Jaybate back and forth is the best on the board, imho.
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"@jaybate-1.0 I thought a better title to the post might have been, “Three point shooting is NOT for suckers.” But what do I know … "
This forum has definitely become a virtual locker room… and I’m loving every second of it!
What’s next, power push-ups?
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One comment has continued to ring through my head ever since it flowed from Self’s mouth:
“It will be hard to keep Devonte out of this lineup, especially as the year progresses.”
I’m guessing Self is talking about the PG position, but who knows… can Devonte swing on the perimeter?
Two key definitions about Devonte will propel him into big time minutes this year:
- Leadership Skills
- Playmaking Abilities
It would be great to add “Treyslayer” and “Solid Defender” to that list… but really the first 2 definitions will count the most to nail down serious PG minutes.
The player I worry about the most is Frank. He is extremely gifted and can really become a factor for x-axis basketball… but I just don’t know if I see Self ever putting him at the 2. Maybe he will sometimes run Devonte and Frank together but shift Devonte over to the 2…
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I just don’t see Mason playing any position other than PG, maybe Graham but not Mason.
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Interesting you bring up Mason … from Twitter, Seth Greenberg ,who was at KU’s practice yesterday: “Wouldn’t be shocked to see Frank Mason and Devonte Graham together. Mason has a little Allen Iverson in him.”
He also said that Svi is the “real deal”, is "going to be special’, and has “feel, skill, length, toughness, needs strength.”
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I can see that but I would think that Mason at 5’11" plays PG and Graham at 6’2" plays either SG or combo guard but I do not see it going the other way.
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“Mason has a little Allen Iverson in him.”
That is some major hype! Wigs didn’t even get that.
I’m curious about the defensive skills of our perimeter guys. Who will be up for some d?
@JayHawkFanToo - I’m almost certain Devonte would push over to the two. But what would be nice is to shove Frank over to the 2 on O and have him play PG on D. We may be treating our 1 and 2 about the same anyways… sort of like the 4 and 5… or should we just call them “left” and “right”?
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Coach Self is a creature of habit and while he might try different things, he will always fall back on whats is his bread and butter (Seth Greenberg notwithstanding) which is tough defense and the Hi-Lo on offense. I know that there has been a lot of talk of dramatic position changes, such as Selden paying anywhere from PG to PF, but other than using it as a gimmick, I just don’t see it being a permanent fixture.
The following quote seems particularly applicable…
** “plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”- Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr **
“the more it changes, the more it’s the same thing”, usually translated as **“the more things change, the more they stay the same,” **
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@drgnslayr No, Wigs didn’t get that-He got the comparison to Wilt which was about the most absurd thing ever, other than the amount of hype prior to arriving on campus & lacing up the Adidas.
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@globaljaybird
Ha… right… that was so absurd that I forgot about it!
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I hear you.
Last year Self changed quite a bit. We rarely ran the hi/lo. I recall about half the time we were trying to get the ball to Wigs and just left him alone to do whatever (drive and get fouled or lose the ball out of bounds). It didn’t seem to be an effective offense and definitely didn’t have the flow of his old hi/lo.
I’m expecting we will see some hi/lo this year, but also other things. A lot will depend on Perry and Cliff and how well they can execute the hi/lo. Perry seems like he would rather step out and hit the J. He’s studying all the tape from the twins and how they created diverse scoring options, especially Marcus.
Exploiting other teams via matchups shouldn’t be viewed as a gimmick… but I’m not sure that he won’t see it like that. I think Self paid close attention to ISU last year (and a bit from OSU) and it is giving him some ideas. Maybe… or maybe not!
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Jaybate writes, “7 perimeter guys won’t play/Redshirting now unspoken.” I suspect that by February Greene or Frankamp will have wished for the opportunity to have snatched the red singlet. Tho, most probably, none was offered. After the Wiggins and Embiid recruitment and subsequent lottery bonanza, Bill Self is fairly well set for specific spot recruitment, at least for the near future. No need to burn a fifth year scholly on sophomores who arrived a year ago with superior upside, but did not quite cut the first year mustard in crunch situations. Given TIME, both Greene and Frankamp will probably develop into essential gametime contributors for Jayhawk hoops. Spot duty this season will tell lots about their potential for a junior red shirt or third year major playing time. Unless injury to other potential key players dictates otherwise, I predict that each of them is yet at least a year away.
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@globaljaybird / @drgnslayr … ssshhhhh. @Crimsonorblue22 might be listening. I’m kidding …
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Long time, no read. Good to see you are back at the keyboard. Your notion that Greene and/or Frankamp might redshirt in later years is very interesting. I have always thought early red shirting was kind of arbitrary. Thanks for kicking out a side of the box for me, Coach.
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Hype means never having to say your forget.
God, I guess I am never going to get that stupid movie out of my memory banks.
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“octessence”??? You certainly mean quintessence, right?
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@JayHawkFanToo I was thinking HerbalEssence…
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No, no, bigger! The eighth essence, dude/dudette (note: I raise the gender thing, because someone else did and I did not want to be disrespectful), this is the age of hype. This is the labyrinth without the meaning of not a labyrinth. This is Borges without the meaning of Jorge Luis. We are entering the sign market become THE VOID as per little Baudrillard’s gnomish schtick. Operation Inherent Resolve is not, I repeat, not happening, as surely as Desert Storm did not happen and Baudrillard did not happen. Quintessence is so last century, so pre-poststructural. Octessence is the new quintessence. Just like googleplex blew up to Graham Number.
Inflate with the times, without recalling the base year index, or die.
Dramedy.
Tragicomic.
Realm-free.
Lady GaGa isn’t Dada.
But Dada is Lady Gaga.
T.S. Eliot Click.
Pinaud is the last constant.
Since 1816.
Can you dig it, baby?
Engineering toward Bethlehem, not slouching, or praying.
Log of e, Log of e,
Let it be, let it be,
Engineering words of wisdom
Let it be, Log of e…
And Nautilus was the first submarine to cross under the North Polar ice cap.
But its the arcs of the Sunflower that determine everything.
"I can dig it
You can dig it
He can dig it
She can dig it…
Can you dig it, baby?"
"No that is not it, at all
That is not what I meant, at all"
"We are all born mad.
Some remain that way."
But after Pinaud, then
It is basketball alone that counts
For each bounce by a boy
Or a girl
In an iced driveway
Or within a chainlink schoolyard
Is a tiny, subversive denial of
THE VOID
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Nice try. Wouldn’t be easier to admit you used a non-existent word by mistake instead of trying to justify the error and in the process compounding it?
To each his own as it were, not a big deal to me.
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Engineering explains a WHOLE lot.
Or does it?
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Back fill here.
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And here.
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And here.
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So predictable…
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And here.
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Back fill here too.
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And here.
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And be predictable while you do.
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Come on!
There’s reputedly a technique that is taught for how to respond to what I’m doing.
I’m serving you a lob!
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@jaybate-1.0 why did I click on that?
I’m grossed out, disappointed too!
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And here.
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And here.
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@jaybate-1.0 I got nothing, said all I needed to say.
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Back fill.
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Back fill.
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And here.
And here.
And here.
