This settles the 10 in a row question HEM brought up.
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I would
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@JayHawkFanToo You know, I recognized the difference in opinion … that’s my reference to what folks “value.” Kind of the point of my post, which you ignore. I’m not saying my opinion is the gospel. I’m just saying that I don’t understand, nor comprehend, anyone with a competitive bone in their bodies, saying that national titles are not the most important criteria in judging a basketball program.
It’s odd … you say the Honda civic example makes no sense. Then you prove my point by acknowledging that your 2001 BMW may not “outperform” and may not be “better” than a comparable 2015 car. Your example demonstrates what I’ve suggested. Further, you misuse the example. It’s not a “comparable” 2015 car I’m comparing it to. Would I rather have a 1968 Camaro than a 2014 Camaro? Sure, I would. But I mentioned a 2002 beater (not a collector’s car, or a BMW) to illustrate the point on rationality.
So you’re saying folks don’t rationalize their existence or circumstance? We hear MU fans do it all the the time, don’t we? Explaining why final fours don’t matter, or why winning the league conference tournament is better than anything KU has done. And you can’t recognize that, perhaps … just perhaps … not winning national titles leads KU fans to rationalize that the alleged value of conference titles somehow trumps national titles?
Again, I’m curious, can you cite to me any “rankings” that consider UConn’s 4th national title in the last 15-20 years? I’d like to see the logic of the “rankings.”
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- Conference titles are to college basketball as save points are to video game levels.
- Conference titles are to college basketball as midterm tests are to a report card.
- Conference titles are to college basketball as nationals in track and field are to the Olympics.
- Conference titles are to college basketball as annual raises are to a promotion.
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@approxinfinity Hahaha. Great post.
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@approxinfinity WHAT’S AN ANNUAL RAISE?
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I guess we are going to beat this horse carcass to the point that even the mob wouldn’t use the head as an alarm clock.
This entire subject on National Championships will never be resolved because it is just one of those things that illustrate personality differences in people.
Also… it is an issue only at top schools who are constantly in the running, because at lower schools, the fans would just be into self-torture to expect the big trophy every year and never never get one!
Personally… I know we are not going to win the NC every year. So I don’t want to set myself up for disappointment most years. I want to enjoy the year of basketball and I want to be left with positives of most teams outweighing the negatives. If I put all my focus on NCs, then most years I will be flat-out disappointed, and that will outweigh everything. I will be left with a bitter taste from my hobby of admiring all the great players (and coaches) each year. That simply is not very satisfying.
Plus… I know what is involved in winning it all. Skill and team work is definitely a big part of it, but also luck and a hot streak are every bit as important. That is why we usually crown a team that most feel are not the best team from that year.
I’m not saying I don’t have years where I am clearly disappointed in the results. I pretty much always expect that we should make the Sweet 16, and often further. That final loss is always painful… but I’m not going to blend that in with always expecting the NC or I will not think back positively on that team later.
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I believe you missed my point about the car example. Your assertion is that if you like one particular car you ***CANNOT *** be objective about other cars and you will use faulty logic to make your car be the best. That is not at all what I wrote.
What I meant to say and I believe I did (in bold italics) is to indicate that as much as you like your old car, you CAN still be objective and admit that the newer cars can be better and/outperform it. Likewise. I can like the KU program a lot and still be objective about other programs; THE TWO POSITIONS ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
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Quick question…given the choice, would you take a fancier title at work or would you take a nice raise instead?
I will tell you my answer. When I was young and building my resume, I would have taken the fancier title; as I got older and have already established my credentials, I could not care less about the title and would take the raise any day. I believe it pretty much parallels my view on basketball titles.
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@drgnslayr I am in total agreement with you and could not imagine expressing my view better!
As far as disappointment is concerned, I try to moderate my expectations - not my hopes, but my expectations.
I use the Tournament seedings to set my expectations, a bit like others who use the ranking to set expectations for new recruits (aHEM!)
If we are a 1 seed, I expect to make the Final Four - not win the NC, but make the Final Four. If we are a 2 seed, I expect to make the Elite Eight. In other words, I expect us to play to our seed.
I’ve mentioned before that KU’s home field advantage could be a small contributing factor to Tournament disappointment. Our home field advantage may give us an extra win or make us seem a bit better, which leads to a higher seed than we may “deserve”, which leads to underperforming our seed in the Tournament.
Whether that’s a factor or not, I try not to be disappointed if we play to seed. It is true that often we have not.
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Now that I think about it, I’d rather win conference and the NC 10 years in a row.
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Ok, I looked at the numbers – UConn vs. KU from 1999-2014. That has been the discussion. The issue is, would you take UConn’s men’s basketball accomplishments highlighted by 4 national titles, over KU’s men’s basketball accomplishments, highlighted by 1 national title and 12 conference titles over that 16 season period of time.
UConn:
Total Wins: 433 – 27.06 per year
Conference Titles: 5
Conference Tourney Titles: 4
NCAA Appearances: 12
Elite Eights: 7
Final Fours: 5
National Titles: 4
Kansas:
Total Wins: 459 – 28.68 per year
Conference Titles: 12
Conference Tourney Titles: 7
NCAA Appearances: 16
Elite Eights: 6
Final Fours: 4
National Titles: 1
So, for those that vote “KU”, please remember that your vaunted conference titles come against a conference that was inferior to UConn’s conference (Big East). I know that pains some, but do you really think we would have won even half our league titles if UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, and Pittsburgh would been in our conference during that period of time? Heck, UConn won 5 conference titles in this stretch and 4 conference tournaments with that competition.
The conference titles are inflated due to our competition. I saw the comment about Gonzaga’s titles vs. “mid-majors.” Right, is it too hard to take that thought one step further? There might be D-1 teams that just aren’t as good as other D-1 teams, right?
But really, even without considering if conference titles were a touch diluted, look at the numbers.
Would you trade KU’s resume for UConn’s resume? Ok, you miss the tourney a few times and get an extra win and a half per season… But you get more Elite Eights, more Final Fours, and more National Titles with UConn’s resume. Heck, what is the value of have 1.62 more wins per season. Or what is the value of making the tourney and losing early to Bucknell, Bradley, UNI, vs. not making it at all (coupled with the astronomical success that accompanied it).
This isn’t about whether you love KU. The discussion is whether you would rather have what UConn has done in the past 16 seasons, or what KU has done in that same time period.
It is a decisive knockout in favor of UConn’s resume.
Please, rationalize for me. Tell how KU’s resume is better. The sky is not green, and grass is not orange.
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@JayHawkFanToo Your “fancier title at work” vs. “a nice raise” example is exactly on point.
“Fancier title at work” = the window dressing. Style over substance. The stuff that makes you feel good and allows you to rationalize to others why you do what you do. The stuff other than a national title.
“Nice raise” = the meat and potatoes. The bottom-line. The actual substance. The national title.
The national title speaks for itself. You point to the ring, you say “kiss the ring”. While others have to find arguments to convince everyone how great they are, you sit quietly knowing that you need not prove anything.
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@HighEliteMajor I want conference titles. I want National titles. I want to rule the Universe.
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Asked about the specific criteria that set KU apart, Jonas pointed to the Jayhawks’ five-year record — No. 1 in all of college basketball — plus preseason rankings, expected returners and last year’s RPI. A smaller, more speculative factor also played a role.
I’ll take KU, if you want uconn, go ahead!
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Okay, you have a point at the last 5 years KU (oranges) but for the 16 year UCONN sample (apples) I would take Uconn in a heartbeat.
But for the history day 1 forward it is KU all the way.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Who is Jonas and what are you talking about? I may have missed something there.
But even in the last five years, UConn has two final fours and two national titles. We have one final four, no titles. KU has 156 total wins, UConn 121. A pretty big difference. UConn no conference titles, KU five. No surprise, but I’d take UConn’s resume over the last five years as well.
Interesting how this dynamic changes if we win the National Title in 2011 as we should have. UConn doesn’t have four, they have three. We have two in that time period. A different conversation.
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@HighEliteMajor Jonas is the deputy head of the USA delegation for the Games. For the record, national titles are the ultimate goal, but that doesn’t lessen the importance of conference champs! It also is important, to me, that our record has been pretty clean!!!
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@JayHawkFanToo I would take the more prestigious job title. As you said, earlier in a career, the title is more important, and in my experience the money will follow the job title.
I would argue that unlike an individual’s career, KU basketball never retires, it is effectively always the young and hungry professional, so in the analogy, the annual pay increase will always be a consolation prize to a title promotion, which everyone recognizes. This is maybe less universal and more specific to my work than I originally thought (@nuleafjhawk).
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@nuleafjhawk You want a raise? C’mon backwards, we’ll raise you up.- Or, as we say in the country, “backerdz.”
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@drgnslayr I say take it or leave it, but either way. just let the controversy go. Whatever makes you happy…
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If you look at just stats & none of the above spin…
It’s pretty much a no brainer…Hello? Lock em’ up guys & take a break.
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I cheer for KU. I do not want UCONN’s record or Championships. I get disappointed when we lose. I am elated when we win. I look at each season as a “chance” to win it all. It hurts when we lose, but then again, I know and accept my role. I am a fan. I have never thrown up in a trash can during “boot camp”, been frustrated by sitting bench, or nailed a game winning shot for KU. All I can give is my undying support. I enjoy the ride every single year, and I will enjoy this year too!
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@KansasComet Yes, yes … if KU went 0-30, and UConn went 40-0 and won the national title, you’d take KU’s record, and cheering for KU would be all that mattered. You are just a fan.
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@HighEliteMajor and that is all I am, JUST a fan. Patronizing other posters makes you, just an ?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Alright alright, time to shut this puppy down! Man, we’re getting stir crazy and we’ve got two months to go… Show’s OVAH!!
Next!
