Sosinski
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During the Totedo game, Svi and Malik were on a 2 on 1 fast break. Svi was dribbling and could easily have finished with an ESPN moment, but deftly dished to Malik for a completely uncontested layup. Svi made the right choice, not because it was unselfish, but because it increased the probability of a made basket. Both players appeared to then run back to defense without ever making eye contact. Malik celebrated as if he had made a great play, when all he had done was shoot an easy layup off a prudent dish by Svi. Under normal circumstances, the player that receives the easy dish acknowledges the passer some how. It is one of the oldest, most commonly observed etiquettes in basketball. But between Svi and Malik I saw nothing after the shot, nothing on the way down the floor, and nothing on the defensive end. It stood out to me. Usually in a blow out against a cupcake players are particularly exuberant in their recognition of each other, too.
Nevertheless, it was only one play, and it is always possible that the camera missed something, or that I did.
I don’t want to make a tempest in a teapot here. Each season, Self has to work and relationship issues on the team. Jeff Withey had a terrible time breaking into the inner circle of Thomas Robinson and Tyshawn Taylor. Every team I was ever around had age cliques, and racial cliques, and friendship cliques. Some teams have interpersonal conflict over two players liking the same girl, or one player losing a girl to another player. Some teams struggle with players not accepting the richest guy. Some teams just have two guys that just would loathe each other under any circumstances, but have to find a way to work together on the same team.
Self appears to invest heavily in introducing recruits to players already on the roster the year before the recruit joins the team to find out if he thinks he can blend the new recruit with his existing players. Self cannot do the brilliant strategic and tactical things he does, and he cannot get his players to play out of position and take on roles that might not be optimal, with just any kind of player personality type. Self apparently has a keen sense of what kind of personality type he can work with and he listens to his roster players about whether they think they can work with this possible new teammate.It goes much deeper than wanting “good chemistry.” Good chemistry is sort of the end result. He is apparently looking for guys that will do what he needs done in the way of roles with their considerable athletic abilities, whether its what they most want to do, or not. He also needs “flexible” minds. Self apparently anticipates that things never go fully as planned either year to year, or game to game. He never fully knows who will sign. He never fully knows who will jump when. He never fully knows who will be healthy and who will develop, and who will manifest emotional cracks and psychological issues under his and college basketball’s intense pressure. As a result, he not only seeks talented guys, but he seeks guys that can adapt to some of his rather extraordinary “flexibility” as a coach. Self is a basketball genius. Geniuses do a lot of unexpected things and need persons around them able to adapt to them, or else there is little benefit to being a genius.
If you listen to Bill Self, he has said the type of player he likes to recruit. The attributes he mentions are:
Athleticism to make plays one on one.
Explosiveness to explode out of position to make plays and help others that are getting beaten.
The get better gene.
Work ethic.
And finally, he likes “characters.”
Self says he has to be around guys for inordinate amounts of time and he needs characters to keep it from getting too tedious for him.
But I have a hunch there is an additional reason why Self wants “characters” and the particular kinds of characters that he wants.
Self’s kinds of characters tend to be pretty idiosyncratic guys that nevertheless have a strong desire to belong to a group. Not all characters want to be parts of groups. Only certain kinds do. Certain characters know they are characters and know they have often been made fun of, and felt alienated because of their idiosyncrasies. Some of those characters become kind of anti-social. They compensate for the rejection and alienation with selfishness. If the world is going to make fun of me and alienate me, fine, I will beat them to the punch. But there is another category of characters that are cut ups, and kind of socially unpolished, and unevenly but precociously intelligent (about somethings and not about others), and these guys have talent, and insight, and know they are a little out of step, yet desperately WANT to be in step. SELF IS THE ULTIMATE COACH FOR THESE KINDS OF PLAYERS. Self appears in looking back to have been a broad shouldered, slender fingered kid with long hair and a weird mixture of jock and sensitive. He probably longed to fit in–to be accepted, even though he was already bright, insightful and popular. He talked funny. He could crack wise, but there was no mistaking he spoke in elliptical, fractured syntax. He may have had some autism, or some dyslexia, or whatever. He was forever seeing things quite differently than others. He was a jock but he was pals with all these musicians that became country singers. Self is both lug and stylish. He was no-jump white guy in a black man’s game that had to come up with things like glue and old man’s game and defense to justify keeping himself on the floor as a two guard with an average stroke.He had some athleticism, but he has been in awe of real athleticism. But he could make persons laugh and love him, even though he was still an odd, quirky mix of characteristics for a jock. Look at all of his players and you see the same thing. His players are characters just a little off kilter from “normal” in their personalities.He is an awesomely demanding taskmaster and perfectionist that demands his “characters” to bond with their mates in boot camp, then drives them relentlessly to get better, while accepting their eccentriciities so long as they don’t get in the way of work and team play and winning. What other coach on the planet would have been flexible enough to have an “artist” like Tyshawn Taylor on his team, make a point guard out of him, and then when he came to him in a psychological crisis tell him to take awhile off in the middle of a championship season? This to me was Self’s finest hour; this was what revealed why Self wins 83% of his games with a bunch of the best players, or other years “with guys like we used to recruit at Tulsa.” He coaches and relates to characters on a level that maybe no other coach has EVER come close to doing. Self is so flexible at working with his characters that he can range from provoking Mario Chalmers into a near fist fight in a huddle intentionally, to seemingly letting Frank Mason walk around in a Psi zone of Frank’s own devising. Mario Chalmers and Frank Mason are about as different as you can get and they are BOTH characters. One is extroverted and one is introverted. But Self never spent a second trying to change who Mario and Frank were. He only worked on “who we were” with them.
Self is a genius.
And each year he has to work a lot on maneuvering his characters into wanting to work with respect and effect and belief in each other. We don’t see more than the tip of an iceberg of what he does with the interpersonal stuff to make the teams play so well together.
And I am telling you right now that there is no other coach on Planet Earth that could be getting Lagerald Vick into the harmonious level of team performance that Vick is so admirably doing right now. Vick is one complicated cat, as Self might say, if were ever so unwise as to speak of such things in public. LaGerald Vick is a great talent, but HIGHLY idiosyncratic personality. Vick and Self are most fortunate they found each other through Larry Brown, who is probably the only guy on planet earth with more insight into basketball and player personality than Self.
You have to work with genius up close to recognize it.
Brown and Self are UP HERE.
The rest are down here.
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@jaybate-1.0 Eh, that’s a bit of a stretch on Svi and Malik. I wouldn’t make any conclusions based on one play. Bring other examples along with that one and we’ll talk.
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Didn’t Malik also make a couple of passes to Svi for open threes? I did not catch that on the espn3 broadcast but I may have just missed it. I hope there is no issue between the players.
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@Texashawk Its just jaybate - there is no real evidence that Svi and Malik have chemistry issues. All conjecture.
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@jaybate-1.0 Again you have laid out for us a vision of the complexity behind coaching a top-of-the-field basketball program. I admire your insight and ability to present it so clearly. Thanks!
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We have also had several not playwho went through camp so i think self and Devonte making sure chemisty is happening is more critical. The boys may all rally around the cool dude fron the football team too.
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Damm I hope we don’t start spewing things about players having chemistry issues with one another. - I mean this is how a bunch of bun gets started and it spreads like wild fire.
Nowhere but here have I seen ANYTHING like ANYWERE about this other then here just now. - -whether people are messin around or not - -not good - some people might get it and run with it, and BAM - there is NOT nay chemistry issues - -they were just talking today about how well they all get along with one another. - Come on let’s not get something else started - there is nothing here move along. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Now u know me and you know that’s not how this will go.
Here’s how this will go: I bring you a fact, then you try to bring me a fact refuting it, i.e., bring me a time in last night’s game when Malik thanked Svi for setting him up for an easy two. Capice?
An opinion never trumps a fact.
Next.
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Things spread TO this site…not FROM it…in my experience.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Things spread TO this site…not FROM it…in my experience.
Thing is we don’t need to pass that BS on. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Texashawk the 3 before half was designed for Malik, he passed to Vick, then svi! They have great chemistry, so noted by Toledo coach. Edited
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Things spread TO this site…not FROM it…in my experience.
Your experience is wrong. Google “KU basketball Sosinski” and you will see this thread show up…with your post on lack of chemistry between two players which anyone that has followed the team knows is incorrect and now is all over the Internet.
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@Crimsonorblue22 you are wrong! Don’t you know there are issues between them? (Sarcasm alert)
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When I read this my first thought was that Billy isn’t coming back. Then I read others who think Billy will be back. If Billy is coming back, why bring on Sosinski?
Is it possible the Lawson brothers might leave after this semester? I haven’t heard anything like this but I don’t see why we add Sosinski if we get either Billy or Sousa. I wonder if they are happy with the post appearing more crowded next year?
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@drgnslayr maybe that’s why Self hasn’t decided whether to keep him or not???
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Do we really know who has great chemistry? How do we know? We don’t. We’d like to assume peaches and cream. It makes for better narrative.
Who punched Mitch in the nose? We do know from experience that good chemistry is different from not liking each other. We know Dedric Lawson was suspended for how he handled an “altercation.” But that doesn’t mean there isn’t good chemistry. The Oakland A’s of the 70s were at each other’s throats. Players don’t have to like each other to have great chemistry on the court/field.
I find @jaybate-1-0’s suggestion interesting. Does it mean he’s correct? No. But I do think that subtle signs, things that are different from the norm, can give hints at what players think of each other. But they may not at all. We may just read into things too much. But how you get to answers is based on evidence. And sometimes the small thread of evidence untangles the entire thing.
So I looked at the play. Go to the video. 4:55 of first half. Didn’t even look at each other. Not a point, not a nod, nothing. Almost as if they were trying not to look at each other. I can’t stretch that to a conclusion, but it is odd.
And Malik did not pass to Svi at the end of the half. Vick did. Malik, to Vick, to Svi. The play did appear intended from Malik, but the defense closed on him quickly.
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I’m not sure why this riled so many.
These sorts of apparent micro cold shoulders go on all the time among competitive men. Part of Self’s greatness is the way he puts certain players in the dog house and rides them till even the guys that don’t like the guy in the doghouse finally come to defend the guy. This is old news. Self has always done this to buff out rough edges between certain players.
My point here is that if Self has to tend to a bunch of new guys at semester, he is going to have less time to do the button pushing and mind games that drive teams together into a band of brothers.
I would expect that there were other kinks in relationships and undesirable cliques going on this early in the year in the games so far that I didn’t see.
It seems par for the course each season for Self to work through these pretty methodically.
What’s different this year is 1-2 new guys coming in at semester.
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HawkChamp said:
@Texashawk Its just jaybate - there is no real evidence that Svi and Malik have chemistry issues. All conjecture.
You saying it’s just conjecture is just you being @HawkChamp.
I never just “conject.”
“Conjecting” bores me.
I always start with facts, or observations. In this case I started with an observation that stood out enough to catch my eye when I wasn’t looking for such an appearance.
It was what it was and I described how it appeared. Nothing more. Nothing less.
The really interesting question here is why are you just being @HawkChamp and saying another board rat is “conjecting”?
What makes you do that?
Rock Chalk!
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I’m not spreading bullshit. What I saw and described REALLY happened. Bullshit would me prentending I didn’t see what I described, right?
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@jaybate-1.0 no one is denying it happened. Most of us think that theory is off base and not true. I personally don’t care the extent to which you propagate it, and I will listen to your theories in the future. It’s why I’m on here - I enjoy reading what other people think, but I will also comment when I think you might be misinformed. I disagree with you about chemistry issues between Malik and Svi, so we will have to agree to disagree.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Things spread TO this site…not FROM it…in my experience.
Your experience is wrong. Google “KU basketball Sosinski” and you will see this thread show up…with your post on lack of chemistry between two players which anyone that has followed the team knows is incorrect and now is all over the Internet.
Google is called a search engine, because it searches. That’s what is supposed to happen when you search, you silly Billy. It happens with what you just wrote and posted, too. Do you realize that you just compounded the issue. OMG!! OMG!!! What you wrote is going to be on Google. Oh Lordy! What ever are you going to do? It’s all your fault now!!!
@JayHawkFanToo and TEAM CHEMISTRY will show up in this thread!!!
Run for your lives!!!
Ahem.
Next, how can my experience be wrong? I experience what I experience, right? You’re not the experience police now, too, are you?
My experience may not include everything that happens in the flipping world (how could it), but it’s still my experience of appearances, right? So flipping what? Get a grip. You can do better, as you like to say to me.
Now think again about what you just did. Feel the XTREME HEAVIOSITY of it. By responding to my response you are now guilty of being “searchable”. Bad, bad, bad, shame on you!!!
Think about that. Now you are to blame, too. Everything is searchable. That means everything! Well, except for the conservative searches that Google reputedly has been biasing results for. Surely Google wouldn’t do that, would they?
Now, Are your rhoids fired up? Isn’t that your pet phrase? No, wait, that’s NOT it.
Lemme see, what is my experience of your pet phrase, @JayHawkFanToo?
Hmmm.
Lemme see if I can remember the experience, it’s, um, “are you off your meds?” Is that it? Um, that’s it, isn’t it? Are you off your meds? Correct me if I’m wrong. I recall the experience appearing to be it’s “are you off your meds?” I don’t know how you meant, but I mean it as a figure of speech only. So: Are you off your meds?
Nah, of course you’re not.
This appears par for the @JayhawkFanToo miniature golf course.
Do you feel pretty guilt about being searchable in this thread?
Buck up, @JayHawkFanToo. You are going to be ok.
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drgnslayr said:
When I read this my first thought was that Billy isn’t coming back. Then I read others who think Billy will be back. If Billy is coming back, why bring on Sosinski?
Is it possible the Lawson brothers might leave after this semester? I haven’t heard anything like this but I don’t see why we add Sosinski if we get either Billy or Sousa. I wonder if they are happy with the post appearing more crowded next year?
PHOF
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What does Chemistry look like?
In basketball, chemistry can help a team with less talent defeat a team with much greater talent (and less chemistry). We’ve seen those team bounce KU out of the tourney on occasion. The one that comes to mind is Northern Iowa. But how do you see chemistry? There’s no formal stat for it.
In my opinion, chemistry is exemplified through passing and shot selection on offense and by offering ‘help’ on defense. Teams with chemistry seem to instinctively make the right pass or find the right guy to take the shot or move around on defense as a team.
So does this team have chemistry?
I’d say it has more chemistry than other recent teams that I expected to have more chemistry because of their extensive off-season activities (in Korea, for example). It is still early in the season, but the ball movement has been exceptional – the pass that @jaybate-1-0 mentioned is just one example. And the defense has been especially sharp – I recall two possessions that were shot-clock violations in the first half. That comes from a team moving as one and is less likely when you have 5 guys playing 1:1.
This team looks really good against the teams they’ve played thus far. Syracuse will be another opportunity to assess the team and its chemistry.
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HawkChamp said:
@jaybate-1.0 no one is denying it happened. Most of us think that theory is off base and not true. I personally don’t care the extent to which you propagate it, and I will listen to your theories in the future. It’s why I’m on here - I enjoy reading what other people think, but I will also comment when I think you might be misinformed. I disagree with you about chemistry issues between Malik and Svi, so we will have to agree to disagree. ——————-
You look good backpeddling.
Why would you say I posited a theory, when I did not and you are the only one talking about theories? Hmm?
And why say no one’s denying it happened when no one is denying it happened? It’s like saying no one’s denying it’s the 21st Century, when noone’s denying its the 21st Century.
I just love this kind of stuff.
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I largely agree with your analysis that this team is showing better chemistry than some recent teams and completely agree that I cited only one example. My intent was never to suggest this Team had bad chemistry. My intent was to indicate that it has like any other team some early kinks to work out on the chemistry front and it will be harder to work them out with 1-2 players new to the team coming aboard mid season.
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@jaybate-1.0 Yeah, adding new players can be disruptive… we’ll see how it all plays out.
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@jaybate-1.0 yes, it is a theory of yours that there are issues between Malik and Svi. To every other human, you sir have formed what we in academia call a theory. I disagree with your idea, and that’s that. Let’s see how the season unfolds and if your theory holds any water.
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@drgnslayr My first thought was the same…doesn’t bode well for Billy coming back. But heck, even if he does that would put us with 4 bigs…which would be typical for Self, I think.
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@jaybate-1.0 Whether there is anything there or not, I have to take my hat off to you for noticing…wish I had DVRd the game, like HEM, so I could take a look at what you observed.
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@jaybate-1-0 I thought I that play was weird when it happened too. Hopefully we’re reading something into nothing.
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This post is deleted!
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I might be way off base.
If I look at this through a glass half full, then Self is doing this to get another big body for practices because he is preparing to have 3 players become eligible and hopes to run more post-based offense, like his new hybrid hi/lo.
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I just can’t see Coach bringing on a player just for practice - We have enough practice players since we can use both the Lawson’s and Cunliffe for that -I think he brings him on to fill in spot minutes for foul issues with Doke until Preston wither comes back OR De Sousa gets here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
I just can’t see Coach bringing on a player just for practice - We have enough practice players since we can use both the Lawson’s and Cunliffe for that -I think he brings him on to fill in spot minutes for foul issues with Doke until Preston wither comes back OR De Sousa gets here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yeah we have plenty of players for practice. It sounds like if he can contribute he will be kept around, if not, no big deal.
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As usual, if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull…All that writing to say what? Nothing?
You wrote:
"Things spread TO this site…not FROM it…in my experience."
I proved to you that “things” CAN and do spread easily from this site to others but you are obviously unable to see it. SMH.
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@JayHawkFanToo Thank you. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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“As usual, If @JayHawkFanToo can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull…All that writing to say what? Nothing?”
Is that how to do it in thread cracking and site destabilization 101?
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No you didn’t “prove” anything, except search engines search; that’s a tautology last I heard.
Ooh but I like the “if you can’t dazzle them with…”
Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Seriously What thread cracking seminar teaches that thread cracking technique? (Notice how I satirized that with redundancy in the same sentence?)
Is this technique trade marked and copyrighted, or can I start repeating it to you ad nauseum too.
Howling!!
Get ready!
“As usual, If @JayHawkFanToo can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull…All that writing to say what? Nothing?”
Hey, did you hear D-CIA Pompeo is rumored to be taking over the state Department’s private contractor army from Tillerson soon. THIS COULD GET VERY TENSE WITH KOCH-STATE AND ROCKEFELLER-DEFENSE FIGHTING FOR THE HOG TROUGH.
Seriously, I enjoy reading and hooting with you.
P.S.: Experience can’t be right or wrong. Only inferences drawn from experience can be wrong. Stop with the unfastidious thinking. You can do better!
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dylans said:
@jaybate-1-0 I thought I that play was weird when it happened too. Hopefully we’re reading something into nothing.
I’m not reading anything in, nor are you. It’s just an observation of an atypical event among players that feel warm and fuzzy toward each other.
Who knows what it means?
But if I were a coach and saw that, my antennae would go up and I would be talking with both players to see if anything was wrong.
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