Can we put the KU versus MU rivalry to bed?
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KU does not have to do what is best for Missouri, KU has to do what is best for KU - seems like pretty solid logic to me and the great majority of KU fans.
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Nebraska, Tex A&M, Colorado say logic lacking.
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This has been discussed at nauseum and as many have pointed out, these are different situations; trying to equate them is disingenuous.
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Ok my friend and foe. Why should KU play MU?
I don’t see any gain by playing them. I just don’t. In fact I think KU agreeing to MU bails them out of moving to a conference that doesn’t care about them.
Think about it? Nobody is talking about MU anymore. So why give them a foothold so they can be talked about?
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@DoubleDD A more pertinent question for you is why you posted this topic if the intent is to put the idea to rest?
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@mayjay hold on. He said put the rivalry to bed, not to rest. I believe that means he thinks we should get in bed with them, i.e. renew the rivalry.
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Well I thought Coach speaking on the issue was good enough? I guess not?
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I don’t care if you run this web site or not. YOU have some good posts. However?
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@JayhawkFanToo Disengenous is exercising strained, self-serving logic. Look in the mirror.
@DoubleDD I have posted in depth on this. The fact is that what matters to most on this topic are hurt feelings. And you can’t debate with that.
Bill Self is the boss. The Godfather. What he says goes.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@JayhawkFanToo Disengenous is exercising strained, self-serving logic. Look in the mirror.
Why is it self-serving logic? Who benefits more from a KU-MU game? MU does, certainly not KU. How exactly does KU benefit from playing MU? KU can make considerably more money keeping the non-conference games at AFH, even more than playing at the Sprint Center ($600K+at AFH, $100K+ at the Sprint Center. $0K at MU) MU would sell out its arena which is considerably more than the crowds they have had lately. KU sells out every game at AFH regardless of opponent.
2,000 fans for Xavier, 1,000 for Davidson, 400…yes, 400 for Tulane. Their biggest current rivalry game versus Illinois only got 12,409 fans and Kentucky drew only 11,574 to their 15,000 + seat arena. Embarrassing.
Call it what you want but the great majority of KU fans do not want to play MU because, according to the logic you call self-serving, they see no real benefit playing MU.
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@JayHawkFanToo Self-serving, in large part, is acting on what you “want.” That’s emotions. That is not logic. You said most fans don’t “want” to play MU. The “why” they don’t want to play is an emotional reaction.
All of this avoids the obvious. KU fans got great enjoyment in playing MU and the rivalry. That is an objective truth. No one disputes that. Which has always been my point. It is historical. It is part of our history. It was maybe the longest running real rivalry. Regardless of whether we like MU, they were our counter-balance. We “hated” MU, and they us – 99% of the time in a good way (see the Norm Stewart ceremony with the rocking chair – CBB at its best). It instilled a different sort of passion.
All of this other chatter about “what does it do for us” avoids and ignores the obvious refutation of that argument – what does Nebraska, Texas A&M, and Colorado – and what do some of the others we play really do for us? Not as much as MU, to be sure.
This analysis has nothing to do with that. We don’t play MU because of a non-logical, emotional response. It is cutting off our nose to spite our face. We, collectively, enjoyed that rivalry greatly. It was part of who we are as KU fans. It created great interest. I had a few threads simply bagging on MU back in the day. Again, facts relate to our selfish enjoyment of the rivalry are not assailable.
Because MU left, and did so with all the b.s. that went with it, as others have noted, we won’t play them. That’s why we won’t play them. That’s why Self has the burr in his saddle. No other reason. And Self probably knows a bit more of the behind the scenes crap that MU pulled.
Relate to what’s best for KU though in 2017 though? Solely emotions. Not logic.
Let’s just not confuse the two. That said, for many, the emotional element is strong and outweighs logic. That happens in life.
Most all of the reasons for not playing MU center on MU leaving and how they did it. That’s fine. I get that.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t see you presenting any reasons for doing it except an emotional one, i.e., to renew the rivalry.
But if most fans don’t want to do it, why should we? That would be illogical, unless you think the majority of fans should not be alliwed to express their preferences.
Finally, you do not give any answer to the entirely rational argument that there is no economic or recruiting benefit to KU. Your entire argumentation is rife with biting, sarcastic, caustic, and simply emotionally overwrought reactions to Bill Self’s position on the matter. Maybe it is time to set emotions aside. Try it.
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@HighEliteMajor Sorry
but your (chicken?) reasoning is, in the opinions of many contributors on this site, emotionally pathetic. Monetarily it’s simply a no brainer that only benefits the opponent. We should help one of our own states schools-even WSU before a school from another state. Seems perhaps your ego is getting the best of you as the years go by old friend. I know you’re smarter than that so may I suggest you take another vacation if you can? Plenty of time before the season starts & it actually could be quite therapeutic. Good 
luck.
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Normally I can get on board with your thought process. However it seems to me there is an element of KU Playing MU, that you don’t really want to confront.
It is easy to make claims that the fans and Coach of KU are just being too emotional about renewing the so called rivalry.
I’m trying to remember? Yet wasn’t the MU and KU football game at Arrowhead becoming a dud? And talk was swirling about not having KU and MU play their football game at Arrowhead. I do believe that was the feeling and this was before MU Left the conference. You see there was already talk about moving the KU and MU game back to their respected campuses.
As for the basketball game. KU doesn’t need MU to sell out the Sprint Center, or any arena for that matter. KU basket is one of those rare schools that can sell out an opposing teams arena. Playing MU in basketball does nothing for the KU basketball program.
Also I don’t like the fact you’re grouping all KU fans together. Just because I don’t think KU should play MU doesn’t mean I’m scared as a fan. I just don’t see the point. Take for instance I’m not a big fan of the “Champions Classic.” It’s played way to early in the year. Yet I get it. The national exposure is just to much to pass up. There is a reason KU plays in the Champions Classic. They get a return on playing in that Classic.
There just isn’t anything to gain from playing MU.
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@mayjay Ignoring your attempts at insults once again, the monetary point is self evident. In fact, it is moot. It means nothing and has no weight. We play other schools that provide us at a max the same monetary benefit as playing MU. There is no monetary downside. That makes it irrelevant. Yet we play Davidson at the Sprint Center for goodness sake (high monetary benefit, right?). And all this talk about monetary benefit seems to ignore much of our non-con schedule. My post cites the other former Big 12 schools and the supposed benefit from playing them. Debate point #1.
My post didn’t claim or suggest that the majority opinion that we shouldn’t play MU should be ignored or overridden. My post clearly stated and focused on what was driving that opinion. You have ignored what I wrote. Debate point #2.
I have not said that the desire to play MU is not emotional. I used the objective, undeniable fact that KU fans have enjoyed the rivalry for over a century and the other points made that are also undeniable as fact. You then use the facts to reach a conclusion. Logic. Debate point #3.
But as my post referenced – logic (and debate points) are irrelevant when emotion overwhelms.
I understand if that is too biting, caustic – whatever – for you. I’m sure you’ll come up with something else. Fine with me. Tissues are cheap if it’s too rough for you.
@globaljaybird You’ve offered nothing but static. Like the old TV station with rabbit ears. Hard really to make out what’s going on.
Looking at how @mayjay and @globaljaybird responded – that has become a major problem with this site. Read my completely civil and direct post, and then read their uncivil response. And that sends this into the abyss. Or my choice is leave the insults and move on, which I’ve done before, or to reply. And then upon reply, when I answer the garbage, they’ll be more insults and accusations. One wonders what they really are afraid of, what insecurities they are dealing with, or what inspires such childish and ignorant behavior. Again, read the post that preceded their responses. It’s the classic attempt to shut down an opinion that doesn’t square with their own. Not surprising from the sources.
But, as usual, I won’t be deterred by such tripe, like it or not.
@DoubleDD I’ve got nothing more to offer on this other than below to @JayhawkFanToo. But thank you for your civil response.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@JayHawkFanToo Self-serving, in large part, is acting on what you “want.” That’s emotions. That is not logic. You said most fans don’t “want” to play MU. The “why” they don’t want to play is an emotional reaction.
I believe you have it backwards. The ones that do not want KU to play MU are doing for logical reasons, i.e. there is no upside for KU and all the benefit goes to MU. Financially? No, KU does much better playing at AFH. Prestige? No, KU can get much better opponents starting with in-State Wichita State. Competition? The MU program has been a dumpster fire that has not won on the Road in the SEC definitely a downgrade and this is why they have not been paired in the Big 12-SEC Challenge. All pretty logical reasons not to play them.
Your argument that we enjoyed the game, the hatred and the long rivalry…well, that is pure emotion, not logic.
See? You have it backwards.
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@JayHawkFanToo The point, again, is the enjoyment of the rivalry is in the past. It’s over. But it is now a fact. It’s undeniable. That’s not emotion.
Don’t confuse that with the actual enjoyment. Whether you enjoy it or not IS admittedly emotional, of course. Once you enjoy it, though, and admit it, it’s now a fact we can rely upon.
The refusal to play MU is because we are mad, or the new term “butt-hurt.” It’s an emotional reaction that is on-going.
The prior “fact” of the enjoyment of the rivalry provides the benefit we could enjoy moving forward. There is no monetary downside. We play unattractive opponents at the Sprint Center many times. And I’m quite sure that marketing of the rivalry could render some cash flow – at least more than the big battles with Nebraska, Davidson, and whoever.
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First chicken, now butt-hurt, you seem to be the only one using those words…and yet you call other posters for…shall we say rude posts?
You can spin it anyway you like, but your argument is all about emotions not logic. I would think Coach Self, the AD and school Chancellor know more about what is best for KU than all of us in this forum and if they have determine that playing MU is not in the best interest of the program why should we continue to argue?
Regardless of the reason, the great majority of KU fans do not want to play MU, this is a cold fact, not emotion.
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According to @highelitemajor, this post of mine is insulting:
@HighEliteMajor I don’t see you presenting any reasons for doing it except an emotional one, i.e., to renew the rivalry.
But if most fans don’t want to do it, why should we? That would be illogical, unless you think the majority of fans should not be alliwed to express their preferences.
Finally, you do not give any answer to the entirely rational argument that there is no economic or recruiting benefit to KU. Your entire argumentation is rife with biting, sarcastic, caustic, and simply emotionally overwrought reactions to Bill Self’s position on the matter. Maybe it is time to set emotions aside. Try it.
Can somebody please help me out on how this is insulting? From the guy who called someone “chicken” for saying he didn’t want to play MU, and has labelled support of Bill Self on this board a “circle jerk”?
HEM, here is what an insult looks like: you are a complete and utter ass. I figure I get to do it since you have preemptively condemned me for it.
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@mayjay Hey, a friend just iMed me & reminded me that the misery dorms are for rent so @HEM can vacation there ! Not sure it’s recommended on tripadvisor but after all WTH, the price must be right for ole Jack …
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@globaljaybird Don’t you think MU has enough idiots in residence already and problems aplenty?
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@mayjay @globaljaybird Chillax fellas. I always enjoy HEMs post whether I agree or not. I get you say he is insulting, but look at what your saying compared to the comments you have taken offense too.
HEM: “chicken” or “butt-hurt”.
Compare that too “ass” or “idiot” or telling him to stop posting.
HEM is a big boy and can handle himself. But once in awhile, it rubs me the wrong way.
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I’ve been laying low for a while, but decided to take a peek at the board. Surely there’s a less polarizing subject to argue over - like politics or religion
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@JhawkAlum Please read his post, look back through this thread and the prior one about MU, and tell me how my prior posts were insulting? And how a comment like “circle jerk” gets no opprobrium from you HEM fans?
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The whole point of this manipulation is to call Coach Self a hypocrite. I don’t think HEM gives a rat’s ass about playing Misery- he just wants to run down the coach, and stir people up. I guess the next subject will be our failures in the tournament- oh wait…you already covered that, didn’t you?
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KUSTEVE said:
The whole point of this manipulation is to call Coach Self a hypocrite. I don’t think HEM gives a rat’s ass about playing Misery- he just wants to run down the coach, and stir people up. I guess the next subject will be our failures in the tournament- oh wait…you already covered that, didn’t you?
This is not the quality posting that has come from the HEM handle through the years. This is almost Jekyll & Hyde different now. Many concur he’s just trying to stir a pot. Who cares about that type of “contribution?” IMO just another condescending whiner so let him run
off his yap & get his strokes if it floats the boat. Maybe he’s flipped his wig & will just start arguing with himself… Whatever, dude needs another hobby & a constructive one at that. Outta here. … the fish await.
