Jackson misdemeanor
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@HawkChamp Josh will not be suspended. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@drgnslayr said:
It isn’t common for the DA to knock down a felony slamdunk to a misdemeanor the way they did it.
Let’s call it “a very close friend’s son” and his buddy found another guy’s mother’s purse in a car. They took the credit cards and went on a crime spree. Bought gas, bought hundreds of dollars in clothes, thought they had been really clever.
The deputy investigating the incident went to the other kid’s house and the kid denied everything. He went to “my friend’s” house. (We will pretend I heard this from someone and wasn’t there, but then we also have to pretend I didn’t dragged him aside and tell him his entire future depended on the next few minutes). The son admitted everything and said where the booty was hidden. The deputy left saying he would refer the case to the local prosecutor.
Later, the deputy reported that the charges identified as possible included some 6 felonies for identity theft, forgery, false presentation of a credit card, god knows what else, plus over a dozen misdemeanors for theft of the stuff bought with stolen cards. All a clear slam dunk, with video and a confession.
He called back later and said that the prosecutor decided not to press charges. The reason was how impressed the deputy was with the kid’s remorse and honesty (and no doubt with a parent who–ahem–might have been there). All the stolen stuff was recovered. The other kid was sent to JD.
We later had the deputy take our little miscreant through a booking process. Everything must have worked. He has gone from uncharged felon to being first a state correctional officer to now being a federal law enforcement officer. (And he, by the way, credits a certain warning he got for helping to turn him around.)
My point is that prosecutors sometimes exercise discretion. They can even give a nobody teenager a break. Giving a break to a celebrity should be the same as anyone else, without everybody crying favoritism.
When was the last felony conviction imposed for car damage in a single incident?
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@JayHawkFanToo HELL ya, rest - -umm dam - -I mean suspend all the starters, they need the rest - - -dam, dam dam see now you got me twisting these words - -dam I mean suspend, suspend, shame on you. I’m suspending you for twisting words. how many games would you like? 2-3-4 - -Oh hey you don’t TRIP players do you by chance? – just asking - -NO? – ok how well can you act? - - FLOP? never mind we will just stick with your suspension for twisting words naughty naughty you. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I would not count on that. He will likely be suspended but if he can reach a quick deal and resolve the issue, he will be quickly reinstated as well.
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@KUSTEVE OH Lordie – - ban for girls for the team? - - uh oh might make for some uncomfortable times in the shower room - - lol - - -JUST KIDDING don’t come all in-glued lol - - -ROCK CAHLK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo self said the issue was taken care of in house. Doesn’t sound like there will be a suspension.
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@mayjay Now days with the way things are 3,000 dollars damage to a vehicle very easily might not be a hill of beans. - -the way prices are jacked up doesn’t take a whole hell of a lot of damage to incur that kind of cost in 2017. We have definitely taken a hit as not so good loosely run group. - -But I don’t get it, yes these kids are 18-19-20 yr old kids, I just don’t think staff should have to baby sit these guys even at this age, I know it’s not good, but man these kids have to have some kind of sense of responsibility, maturity. When I was that age hell I had just graduated and getting ready to be married, I sure wasn’t out vandalism vehicles property. these people know better, - -serious in all reality I’m at a loss no matter how minor/serious these things have become. - -I just don’t get it - -never in the history of the program have we had so much of this come down on this University in one season -I just don’t know - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo GOOD suspend him then , can use the rest anyways - -be ready for the tourney. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@HawkChamp said:
@JayHawkFanToo self said the issue was taken care of in house. Doesn’t sound like there will be a suspension.
Correct. It was dealt with at the time of the incident. He will play against Tejas.
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Shaking my dam head. Although, I am glad this was taken care of in house. And, I hope this is the last “incident” we will hear about this year.
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Let’s hope so.
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Agreed. I am so tired of all these issues trickling down, it almost looks like is by design.
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@jayballer54 Vick and the woman should have had mutual restraining orders.
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These guys are so immature, it’s ridiculous. I was just like them. Young, dumb, and full of —.
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I love the some of the crimson and blue colored glasses here. It is really a good read. Not a flattering read, but certainly entertaining.
And I saw @KUSteve’s post … “I just like them”. Me too. For whatever reason, this team has “it” for me. I love Lucas’ story, Mason is the best, Graham is a terrific complement, JJ is everything we’d ever want in an OAD (or player), maybe Bragg will turn it on, Vick is a star in waiting, and Svi, well, he can hit the three.
Nice year for a national title.
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@Lulufulu boy, you and me both. - -The media is having a hay day with this. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay Couldn’t agree with you anymore like restraint within 5 counties lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I am not sure how exactly read your post. I don’t believe anyone here has condoned what has happened, on the other hand, there is no need to make it more serious that it should be. I personally think that he should be suspended for at least a game, if nothing else for the bad publicity it has brought to the program, but more importantly, so he will learn that there are consequences for the things we do.
I am not privy to all the details, I don’t believe any one here is, and I am not sure what exactly “was taken care in house” means; for all we know, it could be something considerably harder that one game suspension. Sometime we have to trust Coach Self…it is not like we have a choice but we know that he is basically a decent and fair man and he will try to do the right thing.
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@JayHawkFanToo He’s not suspended. Make him shoot 5,000 free throws as punishment over the next 3 weeks.
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I’m going to see the freaking Jayhawks tomorrow night, only been looking forward to it since November, spent a wad of cash (for me anyways) and will spend considerable time driving to Austin and eating out, etc, etc. Josh better play Coach Self. I know you’re reading this. And if he doesn’t and we lose, I’d like a refund.
Goodness I’m tired of reading about legal infractions of our team.
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So it is not a felony because they could not identify that it was Jackson that did all of the damage. They could only positively say he did some of it. It was said there were a lot of people involved. I can buy that, I guess…But …he will not be suspended. That is not a good look.
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If I were Bragg I might feel a bit slighted to have been suspended for a crime which resulted in diversion and JJ is a few dollars from a felony crime and gets no games suspension. Not a fan of this move by self but it’s his team and he calls the shots so that will be that.
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Here is Coach Self’s statement on the issue…
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So now the Star has a story about how the women’s bball player’s minutes have been cut in half since she reported that Jackson vandalized her car.
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I simply cannot imagine not suspending Jackson for the rest of the regular season. He purposely took out after a female, in anger, and purposefully damage her car – all leading to a criminal charge. A criminal charge that has the earmarks of favoritism due to Jackson’s status as player (both the lesser charge and the suspicious timing). And I’m assuming the young lady involved is bad news, for the sake of consideration. Making that assumption. Regardless, just plain ugly.
For that matter, if we are really trying to groom the players as young men, there should be a penalty for Graham’s arrest. The guy was arrested. I don’t even care why, or his explanation. He screwed up. The only way to really punish these guys is sitting out. Graham should have been suspended at least a game.
Regardless of what we do or don’t know, much of this, with the public nature of all of the issues, is how the program looks. Again, this looks ugly.
None of this is major. I get that. But the limited reactions to the public airing of these issues is a very negative look for Kansas – our school.
We are simply to just trust Self? We of course have no choice.
But we can call a spade a spade and offer our opinion. I think Self has screwed this up when he didn’t have to. For the first time in Self’s tenure, I question his perspective related to student athletes and priorities.
These types of stories can get uglier. This seems to have that possibility. In fact, we’ve seen it keep getting uglier.
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@KUSTEVE Water - -? - - -Full of Water? lmao. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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…sigh…
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@HighEliteMajor agreed.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t believe we know enough about any of it to make a firm conclusion. We have no clue, but you are making some condemnations with little evidence other than some news reports. If you know what really happened, either this incident’s particulars, or how Self handled all of them from September 2015 to now, then you should enlighten us.
In the meantime, that is why the word “trust” gets used. Faith based on a lifetime of demonstrated good character. If information comes forward that he has violated his or KU’s values, there will be more than enough time to light him up.
As for Graham, have you wondered how many people could technically get arrested for driving to the DMV to get a DL renewed? I came back with an expired license (7 mos) to Kansas from school out of state, and they just laughed when I worred about it, and gave me a renewal. His explanation makes sense. The “no-excuse/suspend him” approach makes no sense for this apparently unintentional violation, which I chose not to even count in my list on another thread.
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@mayjay are you suggesting he won’t be charged with the misdemeanor crime of property damage? If he is charged and convicted are you suggesting JJ punishment shouldn’t be in line with similar infractions from current and past players ?
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This is so ridiculous and KU players are the only athletes that have ever engaged in this behavior. A misdemeanor and JJ takes responsibility for whatever damage he allegedly caused. So what’s the big deal? I’m sure there’s no other side to this stupid story. There may be no excuse, but give me a break. This is being blown out of proportion, when you have other programs (BU) engaging in MULTIPLE team rapes against female victims.
I find this whole story huckin filarious. Let’s play ball and move on. IF this is our biggest problem, I think it’s safe to say, we have a team of young guys that behave as any other young and careless athlete that make mistakes. GEESH. I don’t want a bunch of young players that fail to raise a little safe hell once a great while. I think we expect too much and put WAY too much pressure on these young guys. It’s better to do less than $1000 of damage than many of the other offenses I hear from other programs. Most of the dirty laundry from other schools are simply covered by spin doctors, lawyers, and some very involved boosters.
RCJHGOKU and BEAT THE FREAKIN’ HORNS
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@truehawk93 so why suspend Bragg 3 games for a lesser crime?
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@jayballer54 Sorry…I read your post and couldn’t resist to post…LOL
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@Blown just taking a stab that Bragg was on thin ice. Take it anyway you want.
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I know josh has been at some grade schools these past few months, working w/kids.
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Isn’t it great how this issue that’s been percolating for awhile came to a head AFTER we won the 13th title.
What an incredible coincidence!
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
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@HighEliteMajor so… I’m on the fence on the suspension. On one hand I agree it would be a deterrent to the kid, on the other hand there are two parties here. So a punishment for ones negative action is also a reward for anothers. Is it not encouragement to the other party that they can screw with a basketball player knowing that any retaliation will result in a public shaming? I agree of course, damaging a car isn’t appropriate, but we’ve got a pattern now of girls screwing with our players and then publicly shaming them for their response. So in that light I can see how private disciplining disarms that weapon.
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@Blown It was Bragg’s 2nd infraction.
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@HighEliteMajor The truth is, it doesn’t matter what you or I think about the way the situation was handled. What is done is done. I find it ironic that you choose to barely post the entire year until this incident occurred.
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@Blown said:
@mayjay are you suggesting he won’t be charged with the misdemeanor crime of property damage? If he is charged and convicted are you suggesting JJ punishment shouldn’t be in line with similar infractions from current and past players ?
Not entirely, but I am saying that the process shouldn’t be accelerated to suspension just because Josh is OAD. If the police hadn’t taken so long,the charges could have been leveled in early January, and that would have left a lot of time for arraignment and possible resolution by plea or diversion.
I do think diversion is a realistic possibility for any non-sexual-assault misdemeanor. And the time it has been percolating could play a factor in whether the prosecutor thinks JJ is a good candidate.
As @Crimsonorblue22 pointed out, the difference between this and Bragg’s quick suspensions could be the existence of prior issues with Bragg. And remember, his first puublic instance was an assault charge. Even though dropped, it came out there was a September incidence investigated as well. So the drug charge was a 2nd or 3rd strike (depending on if you count the dropped charges as either nothing because exonerated, or something, because it was avoidable trouble), meriting a quick suspension until resolved by the diversion decision. Josh’s is the first.
Remember, we don’t know when these things were brought to Self. If JJ and Vick went directly to him, a few points on their side for candor. We only know when they went public. I am surprised we never got rumors since last year of Vick’s alleged assault, and that last semester’s events all came out so long after the fact. Has the Board lost our inside contacts in the student body?
Finally, the big elephant in the room looming over everything is the rape investigation, even though arguably people have compiled timelines suggesting that no KU player could have been the perp. But that is the thing that has caused most people around the country to start believing the worst. It is guilt by association.
I just think we don’t impose more drastic punishments for events prior to that because of getting fed up from hearing about it.
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@truehawk93 Roflmao, OH ya, – -I can just see it now lo, - - like I said, REAL UNCOMFORTABLE. that’s pretty good, I like that lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Lets be honest with ourselves, Coach Self has a double standard on such matters. I am not taking anything away from him on what he has accomplished as a Coach and I have praised him immensely. However, on such legal matters he treats players and staff differently, recall how he handled the situation related to Snack, Traylor and now JJ versus how he handled Green, Mario, Bragg etc. JJ is a great player, best OAD KU has had so far, but there is no excuse for not suspending him and Coach is calling him a Great Ambassador for KU.
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Let’s try it this way – Self’s punishment, when we all look at it with his knowledge, may actually be reasonable. Let’s acknowledge that. That’s fair. The point was made that Self has earned our trust. That is very true.
Even with that, there are two very good reasons to suspend JJ that trump whatever inside knowledge Self has.
There are no denials that JJ pursued a female into a parking lot of a bar, after she threw a drink in his buddy’s face. Then damaged her car by kicking it. In fact, Self has admitted it occurred by saying he punished JJ for it already.
First, without a suspension for JJ, it makes our program look very bad. So if you forget the discussion on whether the action warrants suspension, that is perhaps something everyone can agree on – this looks bad for KU. I would also say it looks bad for Self. You purposely follow a girl out of a bar and damage her vehicle, because she threw a drink in your buddy’s face, and punishment is internal? Anywhere else, we’d be mocking that program or coach. I didn’t raise my sons to do that to a woman (or a man, but we can acknowledge the difference). I bet most of you didn’t, either. And I bet most of you, if your son played sports, would feel a suspension of your son would be warranted, regardless of the girl that was part of it. Again, why?
That brings me to point number two – because it is a terrific life lesson – there are many folks sitting in the Lansing penitentiary that escalated an incident. I would want my son to learn that lesson through punishment on something that is rather benign in the scheme of life, that might deter future conduct. And that goes to @approxinfinity’s post regarding the dilemma in dealing with a bad actor on the other side (which we are just assuming at this point). Regarding escalation, remember, it can go further. The young lady could of course have a gun and with an angry 6’8" man damaging her car, one might wonder if she should seek to defend herself. That’s the risk of escalation. I would want JJ to be punished strongly to demonstrate to him the seriousness of escalation.
Mind you, this is not just responding, which is different. This is not JJ standing in a bar and a guy swings at him, and JJ responds and decks him. This situation with the young lady was clear escalation.
To that issue, what if this young lady is your daughter? I would not want my daughter throwing a drink in any man’s face to begin with. Also, there are freaks that will punch (escalation) you for it (such as the animal from OU that decked that young lady we saw on video). But would anyone with a daughter believe it to be reasonable for a man to damage her car because of it? I hope not.
Also, is JJ Vick’s defender? The girl didn’t throw the drink in JJ’s face, right? So JJ intervenes AND escalates.
Last point – really, under the law, what the girl did in throwing the drink in his face was committing a battery. Folks have been charged with a battery for spitting on someone. Just a thought there.
Ok, really last point – if there is a punishment of JJ that anyone feels is more severe to JJ, meaning more impactful to him that sitting on the bench in street clothes for the world to see, let me know what that is.
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I have noticed in the last three weeks that Josh has been doing some community outreach, reading for elementary schools, visiting classes and answering questions. He has apologized to the victim and has offered to pay for all repairs. Like the Lady Jay that threw a drink in a teammate’s face, Danny Manning got in trouble while in the NBA for throwing his drink in a woman’s face.
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You can read how Bill handles Markeif Morris’ alcohol/BB gun incident. (Above link from Aug 20 of 2008 )
In summary, handled in house.
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Let’s cut to the chase: when you perform on the court, you get a longer leash. For those that support justice, that is the hardest part to accept.
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@Blown what about Brady?
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@dylans also remember how he handled Tharpes racy photo–he mysteriously leaves the team.
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@Blown said:
Let’s cut to the chase: when you perform on the court, you get a longer leash. For those that support justice, that is the hardest part to accept.
I think people, having effed up, who demonstrate that they are bearing down on their responsibilities are always treated more leniently for minor offenses. Go to some bail/bond hearings and see how often having a job with a boss coming in to testify about good character results in the judge giving people a break.
Justice is supposed to be blind, not ignorant.
