For Those Handwringing about the State of this KU Team...
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@jaybate-1.0 You summarized my fear come tourney time. I was glad you mentioned Cole in 2008…we do not have that guy this year…unless Lightfoot or Coleby turns in such a performance in a pinch.
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@jaybate-1.0 Would Bill Self have the cojones to use both Mitch and Coleby for a spell in March? he might need to. I fully agree with your point about Cole in 08
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Did you bother to notice that once conference play started Jamari’s minutes went down? Also the mpg for Perry, one of the 7 members of the rotation also went down and the mpg for the other 6 players went up. Basically, once conference play started, Coach Self tightened the rotation and relied even more on the core 6-7 than he did before. The number are there and they tell the story.
We are losing track of the gist of the discussion which was that Coach Self has relied on a 7 player core before and the current situation is nothing new…would you agree that this much is true?
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@dylans excellent point.
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@jaybate-1.0 dude, there aren’t many guys like that. Maybe TJ Leaf? Hes not a banger inside and prefers the perimeter. Justin Jackson? Probably not - hes a perimeter player. So you see, there is no Kevin Durant or Michael Beasely to worry about. I’ve watched a lot of basketball this season and I don’t recall a guy like that that could effectively guard Josh thirty feet from the basket. Isaiah Hicks MIGHT be quick enough, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Fortunately, we probably wouldn’t see UCLA or UNC before the final four.
You say what Self is doing is genius - maybe but do you remember Nova last year? We are almost an identical team. The recent UConn championship teams and Michigan in 2013 are also very similar to us, so clearly other teams have done well in similar circumstances.
Also, Cole was a big boost in San Antonio, but he wasn’t the reason we beat Roy if that is what you are implying.
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"dude, there aren’t many guys like that. "
Master Dude, In March it only takes one stretch 4 and there are almost always 1-2 teams in the FF with a stretch 4.
Re Cole–no single player ever won a basketball game. Ergo: No team can win a game without all the guys that played. Period. Clearly Cole was critically necessary, because he played a lot. So the question is: can anyone on this team give it what Cole gave it inside. So far the answer appears no, so Self will have to string the bow differently to give some guy on this bench the big chance at another position and hope KU DOES NOT GET MATCHED UP WITH A STRETCH 4.
My assumption is always that the team that wins the ring never ran into too many matchups it could not handle. Only one team does that each tourney.
Finally, the difference between KU and Nova in March is time zone. My hypothesis is that Nova would not have won last season’s March Carney had Nova been located in Topeka.
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I don’t believe Cole played that much in the NCAA tournament except in the UNC game where most of his play was in the first half when KU was almost 30 points up and he played only 4 minutes in the second half when UNC made a comeback.
Memphis 4 minutes (75-68 )
North Carolina 17 minutes (84-66), 13 min. FH, 4 min. SH
Davidson 5 minutes (59-57)
Villanova 3 minutes (72-57)
UNLV 3 minutes (75-56)
Portland State 10 minutes (85-61
Sometimes our memories are much better than reality or as Billy Joel would say…
You can get just so much
From a good thing
You can linger too long
In your dreams
Say goodbye to the
Oldies but goodies
Cause the good ole days weren’t
Always good
And tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems
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@JayHawkFanToo thanks for providing the minutes.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think that was the point @jaybate-1.0 was trying to make. Cole, not much used, came off the bench
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@Lulufulu no, I think he was saying Cole was an important piece. The truth is, that team would still have smacked Carolina without Cole.
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Yes you recall references to Cole playing more than ONE VERY CRITICAL FIRST HALF STRETCH AGAINST UNC and i for one only recalled the ONE VERY CRITICAL FIRST HALF STRETCH. He was a non entity most of the season. And that’s what we are missing. A highly ranked guy riding the pines being groomed for next year that gets the call in the tourney and scraps to give us necessary energy against an AA!
Those that do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it.–G. Santayana
Those that remember and don’t heed it might as well just forget it–jay Santayana 1.0
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@jaybate-1.0 as I said, that team was so good and ready to play they would have smoked Carolina regardless. No one is saying grooming a top recruit like Cole is bad - those decisions aren’t up to me or anyone here and I’m not responsible for it. This year’s team doesn’t have that so wishing for it does nothing for us.
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My point is that what we remember of Cole is him out playing Hansbrough which was great; however, outside of the time when KU was way ahead of UNC and Portland State, Cole really did not play that much or at all during crunch time during the 2008 Tournament. Yes, he came of the bench but he did it at non-crucial times and not for extended periods of time…at least this is what the numbers tell me and others might seem them differently.
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“The truth is, that team would still have smacked Carolina without Cole.” @HawkChamp
This is an astonishing statement.
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Cole smacked Hansbrough! I do remember that.
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@JayHawkFanToo One difference this year is that we are primarily playing 4 guard line up and all 4 guards are playing high number of minutes. So if one goes down KU will be in bigger trouble as there is not an adequate guard back up to fill in for that many minutes. In that scenario Self will be forced to rely more on traditional 3 guard line up IMO
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You are forgetting that Vick is also a guard…
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@HawkChamp said:
that team was so good and ready to play they would have smoked Carolina regardless
You have: could, woulda, shoulda.
I have: DID!
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@JayHawkFanToo Not really. If a starting guard goes down, Vick becomes a starter and then the option is Tyler Self. Can he handle Vick’s minutes? That was my point.
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We would have two injured guards then and at that point we probably go 3-2?
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@jaybate-1.0 uh, I know what happened because I watched the game and have re watched it many times. I was going along with your hypothetical scenario. You say we don’t win without Cole, I say we do. Agree to disagree.
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everyone is such an expert. i need some help. i will be traveling west from wichita to colorado on the 25th of this month and be gone for a week, would someone PLEASE tell me what the weather will be like. would hate to rely on just merrill teller(kwch 12) for the weather. if i receive different (opinions), i promise not to hold any of you responsible. i will just feel better knowing that each of you cared about my safe-fun travels and you want me to make it to my ultimate destination!
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@autohawk Accuweather.com, checking your destinations. Or add the widget to your Android phone if you have one (I have Galaxy S5), add the cities you are going to, and you can switch between them by sliding down on the widget. Gives you instant 5 day projection. Going to the web site (you can do so at the bottom of the screen in the widget) gives you choices of hourly, 3 day or extended forecasts. You can also get radar.
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@HawkChamp I remember Cole being a pretty important part of us pulling away. You are probably right that we win without him…the problem is if you change one thing…or in this case several series where he made an impact…you never know.
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@autohawk By the way, Colorado is pretty big. Where ya goin’?
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@autohawk Sample screen for the website:
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@mayjay What the crap is this for?
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@Lulufulu Autohawk asked for weather help. What is the big deal?
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It really depends on where in Colorado you are going and which way you are getting there.
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@wrwlumpy a very favorite highlight of mine!!!
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@mayjay springs. Thanks for the help! If any one goes , gotta eat at Birddog and Saltgrass!
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@autohawk said:
everyone is such an expert.
I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Expert Party.
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@mayjay no big deal, I just didnt know what that was for.
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@HawkChamp said:
uh, I know what happened because I watched the game and have re watched it many times.
Agree to disagree. You are wrong and unsupported.
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The sound track for this 4-minute highlight of the UNC/KU Final Four match is Eminem using several MF’s but enjoy Cole’s block on Hansbrough and scoring at the other end.
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Oooh, this for the memory hole refresher.
