Making Up for Joel
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Lucas appears to be at that point of development where he knows how to do everything he is supposed to do in mechanical terms, and when everything is unfolding as expected he plays his role soundly, but I believe Landen gets thrown off his game by changes when he is on offense, and on defense. Sometimes it is changes in the other team’s offense that make him unsure what to do, other times is its changes in how our offensive actions are changing from what he expected to something else. He is a very interesting case, because for a few minutes he will be rolling along smoothly in sync with the offensive action–looking as good or better than who he replaced in terms of getting to places on the floor and so on. But then there are changes that he does not recognize and he gets out of sync and then cannot get back in. We definitely need him to contribute from here on. We need at least 15 mpg from him with Embiid out, on Tar’s good nights, unless Self is going to call up Justin instead. And on Tar’s bad nights, we’ve got to have 20-25 from him. It is a tall order for Landen to get comfortable this suddenly, but that’s what we need. Difficult comes easy, Landen, the impossible takes a little longer.
Tar has to take the biggest step up. But he is evidencing the same kind of confusion when the other team has a sophisticated coach capable of running offenses and defenses geared to confuse a big man, as Huggie Bear could do.
But Tar faces the same problem all of our guys do. Tar showed what it looks like to run the offense against a defensive team that did not put on a lot of pressure. But when pressure gets put on, most of our guys lose broad focus of the floor needed to run the offense. Instead, their focus narrows down to just keeping from getting the ball stolen and to make the pass. They aren’t seeing all the options, they are just seeing one option. Tar gets rattled and does the same thing, or more often, he tried to run the stuff and people stop following his lead.
It is crucial for this team to follow Tar’s lead, or Landen’s lead; that is the nature of hi-lo basketball. The three guys out front can play catch all they want, but they don’t really start running the stuff until they start following the low post man’s lead. They have to get it to him when he calls for it. They have to trust him that his call for it is the best thing for the team. They have to start looking to make plays off his lead, rather than isolating and making plays.
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@DinarHawk Yes!! You have to love guys like that!. I’m gonig to put faith in this team and believe Tariks’ owrds. " Lets have a magical season"
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@jaybate 1.0 I knew you were going to bring Chester back today.
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He was, behind the plain speaking, the greatest of the great.
We needed him bad today. I sensed some spirits wavering. People have been arguing with me like whining girlie men about calling a spade a spade about wiggins’ performance in the meaningless WVU training exercise. I will not have the stench of soft thinking stinking up this web site, when there are brave young, most especially Andrew Wiggins, laying their young lives and nearly sorted games on the line for us. The moment I recalled these boys had played the toughest schedule of the last ten years and won their conference with two games to go, despite Embiid badly mauled, and in dry dock, despite Wigs becoming over focused on carrying the team, despite Tar back sliding, I knew Chester was imperative.
Wiggins only made 2 assists in the training exercise in Morgantown, but he will learn from that mistake. Naa always bounces back. He will again. Perry will be shaken from overthinking. There is greatness in him. Selden is a man on two bad knees, but such men are still indomitable. I want Mason in my gun battery and on my break no matter that he struggles at the iron. He is a tiger who will do the right thing when all is on the line. Jam Tray will be explosive whe we need him. CF and Brannen will find their sea legs and make their shots. And so on. Young men in harms way will perform. They have been training for this moment since July. They do not yet know high they can rise, when their leader says, "now, I have taught you everything you need. Now is your time. This is your place. I have every confidence that you will do your duties and say amidst doubters we believed, amidst challenge we prevailed, amidst fear we conquered.
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@jaybate 1.0 Yeah, I like the Navy reference too. Being ex Navy myself, I can appreciate the will it takes to overcome a seemingly impossible task.
I will have much more confidence in our guys if they beat Okie state tomoro. They are on an absolute tear right now. They are fired up and also have their backs against the wall so to speak. They are still on the bubble and need another solid W or two… Lets not give them one fellas! Just prior to logging on here I felt a bit more positive about tomorrows game. Then, even a bit more after reading Jaybate’s excellent Military/Basketball referenced post. But, then the injury situation comes crashing right back down and now Im not so sure we can beat a fired up Okie State team. I am seriously nervous about it!I hope Coach Self is willing to take chances on different line ups until JoJo gets better. He has to, he has no choice. But, if Selden is hurting as much as Naadir is, that’s not good. I also hope KU’s trainers can give them enough treatment, massage, physical therapy and in medical speak, How do you reduce inflammation? Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation, oh and non steroidal anti inflammatories, which Ive read can hinder healing to a degree.
@ Jaybate, how did you notice that Brannen is nursing some knee problems of his own? You know, I saw Naadir and Tarik with Iced up knees after the second pre season warm up game, back in November!
Does Coach think about starting Traylor along with Black? I mean those two are tough as nails when they are on the court together and we need that toughness in a major major way. Perry absolutely doesn’t need his confidence shaken at this point so if this happens, Coach may have to sweet talk him a bit. Is it me or does Perry seem to do better playing along side a taller longer big like Withey, Embiid, Lucas? Does he give limited minutes to Selden in order to rest his knees? In all good consciousness he cant run Wayne into the ground during the big 12 tourney and expect him to be better stronger faster in the Big One.
I want to stress that I am not doubting, Im just worried for our boys. I want them to win the big 12, but that’s not quite as important as being battle ready to make a 6 game run starting next weekend.
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@jaybate 1.0
“CF and Brannen will find their sea legs and make their shots.”
I think both Conner and Brannen are struggling with the same issue, namely, going from getting 15-20 shots per game to getting <5. They were offensive stars in high school. They are role players now, which means they come in, maybe get 2-3 looks if they are getting shots that night, then they are done. In high school, they could start 0-3 and still finish 8-18 with 22 points on an off night. Now, they start 0-3, that is their night.
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@jaybate 1.0
What we need is a complete team that stands up and fights.
No one can do it alone. Wiggins proved that last game.
Tar will foul out if our guards can’t stay in front of their men. We have now gone from having the most depth of any team in America in the post, to just having enough and some vulnerabilities.
Tar ran plenty of offense on Texas and Ridley. He turned Ridley into a boy. Keep remembering that.
The light is on Tar now to pick up the slack in the post. He’s gone from “role player” to “our man in the post.”
We have to play now as if JoJo will not return for anymore games.
Landen has the tools, just needs more time on the court. He’s like a musician who knows the notes, but isn’t ready to play a mastered concert yet. It is different playing on the stage than in a practice hall. Still… I expect we will get some quality music out of him in the coming weeks.
I know I keep saying it… but the players that need to stand up and lead this team are all the players who are not freshmen. Naadir, Perry, Tarik… maybe some minutes from AW3, the guy that has disappeared on this team. It is difficult for freshmen (I don’t care how much talent they have) to play over the level of upperclassmen.
From here on out we have to all be about… LEADERSHIP… MOTIVATION… FOCUS… EXECUTION.
@truehawk93 - THANKS!
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A lot of players have been wearing the knee compression braces since day one. Saw them in the first games. I would guess a high, very high, number of div 1 players are being iced before and after all games! Besides Embiid, Tharpe’s thumb are the only injuries we know about.
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@drgnslayr Mine is definitely a “hindsight” post, but if your reference to “bunch of boys 180mi south (of KU) that dont have the talent to make your team” is talking about WichitaSt, I would simply voice my half-cent opinion that their positions 1 thru 4 (VanVleet, Baker, Cotton, Early) could play for anybody. And definitely in the Big12. VanVleet is Mason after a year’s experience, including Final4 experience. 6’3 Baker is quicker than Spradling, more dynamic than Brady (more aggressive) and has a 45% trey gun. Cotton is a 6’2 tough combo guard that ya just know Self would love. And Early is almost like a Wiggins-lite (although a humongous difference is Wiggins is an amazing 18-19yr old, while Early is a senior), somewhat imperfect comparison. WSU’s 5 position is a 3 headed monster with lots of energy and little pressure and 15fouls to give.
This is all hindsight, because apparently nobody knew of these players, or believed in them…but credit to them and their coach. Self looks for gems, too…most recently “discovering” Mason, Embiid, & who knows about Lucas or Traylor’s finished product another couple of years from now…
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@drgnslayr I’d like to see more out of Green too. He and Lucas are very similar in that they have the skills, but need the time at full speed and the reps to be even better. But they will both get there, they just need to not press the situation when they are in the game, don’t get sped up, do what they need to do, be the role player they are intended to be this year and make things happen.
Frankamp is another that has been playing well of late, I just hope he continues his growth through the tournaments, ala Ellis last year.
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Someone we all know (an Okie that played for Eddie Sutton), is probably telling that consumate team player, Tarik Black, that “now your ‘role’ is to be THE alpha dog down low”. Tell Tarik to fry em up spicy, Memphis-style!
Ellis, ever the contemplative one, hopefully has had 2 full seasons to “think about it”, “think about it alot”, and “think about it too much”, and then “think about it some more”… to finally arrive at the fitting valedictorian’s thoroughly researched conclusion: Go play nasty! Dunk on those fools! Shoot the 3 like you can, pulling out the defender so WiggyBaby or WaynesWorld can slam it home! In the Bill Self offense, everything is interrelated. And when playing D, Ellis just needs to remember the opponent called him a “T-rex armed defender, with T-rex hops”…(although it may take Ellis some time to ponitificate on all the ramifications of the bulletin board material just given, and create his well-contemplated response…which he unleashes hopefully this season sometime…)
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@Lulufulu85 I’m a WW2 ship builder (1/700 & 1/350), love pizza, zombies, and KU basketball also…Name your favorite ships, and what do you think of WalkingDead tv show? (son and I think its awesome)
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Naadir, Perry, Tarik.
Copy and paste.
Add Jam Tray.
And they will.
If Self will adapt.
And he will.
And it can start against OSU.
Slice the seams of the press.
Slice the seams of the press.
Do not fear a press. Love slicing its seams
Do not fear a press. Love slicing its seams.
The fates have brought OSU to us first precisely that we confront that which we most doubt in ourselves first.
And if we are beaten, it is not over.
The crucible merely takes another form.
Midway forms two weeks out.
All that matters now is preparation for Midway.
This is the misdirection need for the preparation.
Smart, Brown, and Nash are simply our opportunities to confront that which we most fear. It is our chance to mark the end of retreat. It is the stalemate required to go on full offensive. It is thus critically important but not decisive. It is Coral Sea.
The only real question is are the players tired of having the fight taken to them? Are they sick enough at watching the carnage of being on the defensive? Do they want finally to say, regardless of how young we are, of how limited we are, do they want to say, “Here, now, in this marginal battle, we go on the attack. Win or lose, we stem the tide here, now.”
This OSU game is momentous.
In basketball, especially Bill Self basketball, defense is offense, transition is offense, and offense is offense.
We have been on the strategic defensive for several weeks now while we reorganized our forces and looked for a place to go on the offensive again.
This is it.
If not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not OSU, who?
The team must go on the attack.
But the team must not mistake this B12 tournament for Midway, whatever happens.
This is the Coral Sea.
We can lose here and still win, if we inflict carnage not he enemy. If we change his perception of us and of how we fight.
This could be terribly rough and we may take a beating, but we have to dish out a beating. We have to be on the offensive.
There can be no more backpedaling and regrouping from this point.
There can only be feints, surprise and furious attack.
This game is a chance to put the fear of god in our enemies–to let them know that the gloves are off; that the young team is now a mean, hard team.
That whether you beat us in anyone battle, we are coming at you and we are not going to fight fair, and we are not going to let you know how we are going to play, and we are going to use any means necessary, and we are going to attack and keep on attacking. And that our enemies are not safe anywhere on the floor.
That is what the Battle of the Coral Sea was really about.
That is what this Big 12 tournament is about.
It is about letting our enemies know that their days of determining what we do and were we fight are over.
Self will use misdirection, and surprise and will pick away at vulnerabilities. There will be rough play. Ford will try one more different scheme, because different looks are what have worked in the past. But bottom line it will be attack on defense, attack in transition, and attack on offense until the different look doesn’t matter, until Smart and company understand they are alone in an open court with a team that wants to fight them every which and swarm them and sting them.
Smart and company may win, but this has to be one bloody fight to the end.
Upper classmen have to do this.
Naa, Perry, Tar and Jam Tray.
They have to go on the attack.
The motto for the game: attack everywhere all of the time, then attack some more!
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I remember my last game my senior year, coach came up to me looked me in the eye right before the tip and said, “Don’t ever and I mean ever look back and ask, ‘What if?’” I played a solid game that night fouled out on a a hustle foul with a few minutes left. I walked off that court with my head held high, did a little wave to the crowd and sat down.
I to this day 23 years later have never asked myself ‘what if?’ about my senior year of ball.
So Tarik, no WHAT IFs from here on out. Go get em
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PHOF
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I’m not saying JoJo is Emeka but this just puts me farther in the postive column!
“UConn center Emeka Okafor missed two Big East tournament games with a stress fracture of the lower back in 2004 and went on to lead the Huskies to the national championship that season, scoring 24 points in the title game. Okafor took a path similar to Embiid’s in that he received feedback from spine specialists in two different cities and, like Embiid, was projected to be drafted in the first few picks. Also, initial MRI tests taken after Okafor began to experience back pain did not show any stress fracture.” -Quote from the old site
We can still get this done. We can cut downt he nets in Jerry’s World
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I remember that UCONN team. They had 7 of their players eventually going on to the NBA… 6 in the first round!
Year Round Pick Player NBA Club
2004 1 2 Emeka Okafor Charlotte Bobcats
2004 1 3 Ben Gordon Chicago Bulls
2005 1 7 Charlie Villanueva Toronto Raptors
2006 1 12 Hilton Armstrong New Orleans Hornets
2006 1 22 Marcus Williams New Jersey Nets
2006 1 23 Josh Boone New Jersey Nets
2006 2 40 Denham Brown Seattle SuperSonics
Gordon was the only player to receive the NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award as a rookie, and is second in career three point field goals for the Chicago Bulls, behind Kirk Hinrich. Hinrich… hmmmm… where have I heard that name before?!
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@drgnslayr That team was definitely stacked.
Jo, Perry Wiggs, Selden, will go in the first round. I think Tarik will get a look in the NBA. Brannen def will and could go first round if he sticks around for a few years. Big L by his senior year might evne get a couple looks from the League!
Nice stats my friend! Kirk should have won it, I could possibly be biased though.
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Man… I wish we had Kirk on our team right now! We would be Final Four bound for sure!
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One thing is for certain, we cannot rely on our defense.
I went and looked at some numbers. We are ranked for 2013-14 at 152nd in points allowed with 69.7 per game. Remember, that’s with Embiid for all but 3 games.
Compare to the following:
-2012/13: 61.9 ppg, ranked 51st.
-2011/12: 61.6 ppg, ranked 35th.
-2010/11: 64.7 ppg, ranked 69th.
-2009/10: 64.2 ppg, ranked 62nd.
-2008/09: 65.4 ppg, ranked 106th (another team with 5 new starters).
-2007/08: 61.5 ppg, ranked 21st.
There are more points scored this season, but relatively speaking, we are way, way off our normal defensive ranking on ppg.
We cannot hang our hat on defense.We haven’t been able to the entire season.
Focusing on offense, structuring our lineup for scoring, pressing some, are what is needed… Also, a staple of Roy ball, not worrying about the shot clock or turnovers as much. Get your shot, increase possessions. Sure, we need to play good defense. But I’m pretty confident that we won’t win if we do that.
If we have Tharpe and Ellis in our lineup, how good can our defense really be? It will be exactly what it is now.
Self’s normal formula is probably the best path in a normal season. But this is not a normal defensive team for coach Self.
The Roy formula may be best for this team … in his 2005 title season, UNC ranked 203rd at 70.3 ppg. In his 2009 title season, UNC ranked 272 in ppg, 72. 0.
That is the formula for this team. Increase possessions, shoot the ball, if you turn it over, just keep playing fast, you’ll get the ball back. Structure your lineup to score, first and foremost. This is the formula.
Note: I posted this on another thread. I just think that this is the answer, I had to post it again.
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@HighEliteMajor OK, HEM, I see your point now. Over on the other website, I earnestly disagreed with your post, because of the WVU result where we scored 86pts and still lost. My point there was that Roy ball often was a top scoring squad, but could get beat in a trackmeet type game if our offense was off. Roy years we would have 20pt blowout losses a couple of times per season (it seemed).
But you have fleshed out your argument better here, and a dedicated emulation of Roy ball might work…I have been saying myself (negatively) that this year’s squad is a negative reminder of RoyBall’s tendencies (could lose in trackmeet, and could lose to muscle ball, since RoyBall was soft).
So maybe all-out attack, and get to rim or FT line, thus putting a different kind of pressure on the opponent…It could work. Nice thinking beyond the Self-box. Kudos for making me re-think. Agree its worth a serious consideration.
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@ralster First, I love The Walking Dead! It is the best show on tv right now. NCIS is a close second. (Navy) I really like the new ships the military has coming out, Ive seen photos and they look really tough. I was on FFG -12. Fast frigate USS George Philip. We were in Pacific Fleet 7 I think. I cant recall any specific names at this moment but I like Carriers a lot. We plane guarded for the Kitty Hawk. I took a small boat from the George to one of our USBNs, Nuc subs, that was fun.
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@jaybate 1.0 inspiring. I hope those guys see it.
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@ralster Man, speaking of RoyBall. Im tired of meeting UNC in the NCAA’s. Can we not do that this year?
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Great recall on UConnvicts. They really were the transitional team in the migration to Cal’s OAD ball. Stacked was not the word for them.
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I saw this before, but the significance did not sink in, as I was preoccupied.
I want to expand a bit on why this melds with my point about attack.
When you are not a great, classic Self Defense team, as your time series stats make starkly clear, you HAVE to adapt.
All guerrilla and terrorist warfare are based on adapting to the inadequacy of ones forces to defend broadly against an overwhelming adversary.
It is not that you cannot defend anything at all.
It is that you must pick and choose where, when and what the purpose of defense is.
Self Defense is about defending everywhere with overwhelming force.
If you cannot defend everywhere with overwhelming force, then you must either defend somewhere with overwhelming force, as we defend close to the basket with Embiid, or you must constantly vary where the point of defensive attack and pressure are applied. The idea is to keep the enemy off balance with defensive counter attacks.
Travis Ford is a little man. He has had to learn all his life about how to attack defensively in a varying way, because he has never been big enough to contain an opponent all over. Thus, when Travis Ford found himself without Cobbins, he adapted with varying defenses that all had one thing in common: vary the point of attack until the the opponent was off balance. This is what zone pressing does. It gives the defensive team an entire court to pick and choose where to unleash the defensive point of attack.
Bill Self was a big guard, not a huge one, not a hugely athletic one, but a big, broad shouldered combo guard that could and did guard you everywhere in order to avoid having to guard you very much at the rim where you could likely out jump him. It is his mind set.
Thus, when Self was confronted with the inability of this team to guard everywhere he resorted rightly to guarding somewhere, but he resorted to Embiid and his bigs guarding close in. It was an entrenching form of defensive attack of the kind Robert E. Lee specialized in, until he realized that it was costing him too much and did not produce decisive victories. Lee made the right choice. He went on the offensive on marches into Maryland and Virginia in search of disruption in the enemy’s rear, in pursuit of his rail pinch points enabling both his interruption of Union troop and supply movements, and giving him access to Washington DC and Baltimore from his hoped for objectives in Harrisburg and York PA, from whence he intended to sweep down rapidly and take Baltimore and Washington and so control the Chesapeake Bay and thus draw the covert ally of Britain into an overt ally.
Lee moved north to Maryland first in hopes of turning largely pro southern state controlling the east side of the Chesapeake Bay, and the rail head of the Baltimore and Ohio, knowing that Lincoln would commit forces decisively to prevent him. He knew taking Maryland depended entirely on the people of Maryland being willing to join in and overthrow the Union occupation of Baltimore, which they were finally not willing to do. But he also knew that if he moved on Maryland first with the eventual aim of taking York PA, that if the people of Maryland did not rally the state to his side, that his Armies could then entrench a small force, sweep west more rapidly that the Union could follow and then turn north moving up three mountain valley corridors, using the mountains as flank screens before breaking into open country in Pennsylvannia, where he would be able to race toward Harrisburg, where the largest Union troop training base logistical warehousing and distribution center was located, and thus hold the necessary supplies, and hold the necessary hostages, to turn south and pick a battlefield to entrench and defend agains the onslaught of the converging, amassed Union Army. From that entrenched battle field he would then hold the Union force at bay and flank with one of his armies, encircle and destroy the converged Union Army and win the war by first strangling off Washington DC from supply, and then depending on Northern response, probably move north quickly by rail to take Trenton New Jersey and its iron works and port where he could contain Philadelphia, and order Confederate Armies in the Carolinas to move north by train to take Washington D.C. and so begin an iron clad based naval blockade on New York and Boston with the by then certain assistance of the British, if necessary.
The point is is that it is hogwash that the South could not have won the war with the sort of limited defensive capacities that it had. It could not defend the entirety of the south because of limited defensive capacity if it chose to remain on the defensive. But it could go on the attack and pick mobile locations in places the Union could not anticipate clearly and could successfully defend and attack, so long as he never overcommitted his forces on the wrong battle field in a head on assault.
Only the foolishness of Jeb Steuart’s cavalry leaving his side undid Lee’s gambit, for blinded by the absence of Steuart’s cavalry, Lee buckled under the pressure, and resorted to his early military training in concentrated frontal assault Napoleonic style, rather than listening to Longstreet’ telling him to withdraw to the mountains to the west, entrench and fight there, instead of moving into Gettysburg. Lee was blinded by the chimera of crushing the Union in Gettysburg and so making use of the narrow gauge railway extending east of Gettysburg that would allow him sudden rapid mobility eastward. It was the same narrow gauge railroad that the Union then used to crush him with logistics.
The point is: inadequate global defensive capability does not determine failure. High mobility attacking defense can work also, and one is regardless, finally at the mercy of one’s mistakes, and at the hand of lady luck in one’s opponent’s mistakes.
KU can turn this situation into an advantage as surely as Travis Ford did once his point guard finally got hold of himself and recommitted to purposeful approach to victory.
