Best posts made by JayDocMD

It’s early. Let me start by acknowledging that. Perhaps too early to be posting this. But with each passing game the near consensus number 1 recruit in the country (and Bill Self’s most heralded recruit ever) not only doesn’t look like the best freshman in the country, but doesn’t even look like the best freshman on his own team. In fact you could argue that for several games, 2 or 3 freshman have looked better.

I like Andrew Wiggins. I think he’s an incredible player. I think he’ll be a great pro for many years. How great? All-star? Hall of Fame? Not sure. And that’s not the point of my post here. In fact, I don’t even want to talk about Andrew. I want to talk about Coach Self. I think Coach Self is one of THE best college coaches in the game. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone. That said, I’m starting to wonder about his ability to adapt. I know he can adapt pretty well to what the other teams throw at him. I’m talking about his ability to change the way he coaches in order to best utilize the talents he has at his disposal. Is he running the best offense to utilize the once in a decade talents of an Andrew Wiggins? That’s not a rhetorical question. I honestly don’t know. I’ll leave it up to @highelitemajor , @drgnslayr and others to speak intelligently about that. It seems to me that Andrew isn’t the focus of our offense. It seems to me like we’re running the same stuff we always have. That’s why Perry Ellis and even Embiid have been looking so good. The big men always look good in a Bill Self offense, right?

So back to my original question: Is this Bill Self’s last chance to showcase a top recruit? If the rest of the year looks like the first 7 games, I’d have to say probably so. I don’t think you can recover from an underachieving Wiggins who was (unfairly) hyped as the second coming of Kevin Durant. Add on an underachieving Josh Selby (yes I know he was hurt and suspended - no one else cares about that) and Coach Self will have strikes one and two against him. He’ll become known as the coach that can get you from a 10-50 Rivals ranking to the NBA draft, but if you’re a top ten talent he won’t know how to showcase you.

Depending on how you feel about the Calipari “strategy” of bringing in the best of the best, perhaps that’s a good thing? I mean we all want Self and KU and Wiggins to succeed, but perhaps the silver lining to the collegiate failures of Selby and Wiggins is… no more Selbys and Wigginses.

I’ll say it again. It’s early, and this may all be premature. But in my opinion, Andrew and perhaps even more so, Coach Self, is on the clock.

Over the last 10 years, Coach Self has had multiple teams loaded with talented underclassmen that played important roles for KU. But on those teams, there were always upperclassmen who were the team leaders. They weren’t always the best players, but they were guys who had been through the ups and downs of KU basketball. Guys who had fought through both self-doubt and Self-doubt to emerge as leaders on the floor.

Those upperclass players become vital at times like these - when losses mount and players start doubting themselves, the system, and maybe even the coach. Those leaders are vital when 18-19 year olds start to tune out the screaming of a coaching staff that is frustrated with them. They become as important as the assistant coaches. In essence, they are assistant coaches. Coaches on the floor that redirect the game from getting out of hand - keeping a 6-8 point run from becoming a 21 point run.

I can’t ever recall a Self-coached KU team devoid of those player leaders. Until now. Usually there are several guys who fill this role. Reed. Robinson. Morningstar. Withey. Darnell. Sasha. Chalmers. Rush. You get the idea. But who is that guy this year? Tarik Black? Greg Wesley? No and No. Certainly none of the walk-on coaches’ sons. Perry is just a Sophomore and not vocal enough to be that leader - at least not yet. It was supposed to be Tharpe and Traylor - and maybe it will be. But I’m not seeing it yet.

So while we look for Andrew to be the athletic leader on the floor - and he appears to be showing growth in that direction - we also look for the heart and soul of this team. That guy that will be an extension of Coach Self on the floor.

History has shown that a Coach Self team always finds it way. It has stumbled and looked lost at times over the years (see TCU) but then turns the corner and rallies for yet another conference championship and high NCAA tourney seed. So this year will be no different, right? I truly hope so. But I see a concerning difference between this and all previous Self teams… Who is our leader?

This is as good a time as any to restart the tradition of posting a Weberace pic that I begun at kusports.com …

I guess I’m the opposite @nuleafjhawk. The more Marsha talks the more I think I feel sorry for her. That poor homely gal just can’t get a date. She’s basically just standing in the obscurity that is the MIZZERY Valley Conference and jumping up and down yelling “Look at me! Look at me!”

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! Hope everyone has safe travels and enjoys some good food and family time. Today, one of the things I’m thankful for is this forum where my fellow Jayhawks and I can debate, extrapolate, pontificate, and above all else: congratulate. Rock Chalk.

Interesting thought. I think I like it. My initial concern would be fouls. Most games, we have a least one or two “bigs” sitting some of the first half with 2 early fouls. It’s mostly been Tarik, but JoJo and Jamari have also had their own foul issues. In limited minutes, Perry has done well to avoid foul troubles. But with stricter enforcement of hand check rules, I’m wondering if Perry at the 3 might expose him to foul troubles as well as he tries to guard typically faster players looking to drive.

Perhaps “PE at the 3” is something to employ late 1st half or 2nd as we see how the foul situation plays out. Additionally, in limited minutes Lucas has looked like a player - so we might have more depth with our big men than many of us thought preseason.

An additional concern would be having one less sharp shooter on the floor. With a small sample size, PE has shown that he can hit the three. But most of us wouldn’t pick him for a 3 point shooting contest. With @highelitemajor 's well-documented concerns regarding our 3 pt deficiencies, this lineup could exacerbate, not alleviate, that problem. That’s less floor time for Selden, Greene, White, and/or Connor. Granted, as a group they’ve been anything but impressive from 3 land. But Selden’s hit some recently, and I have to think that turns around for another 1-2 of them too (right?!)

Don’t mean to dump all over your suggestion. As a said, I actually like it and think we should look to employ it intermittently during a game. Just not sure I would start with “PE at the 3.”

I am the best poster on this site bar none. I have yet to see a single post that is even in the same realm of my intelligence. Everyone else’s posts are almost as boring …

Submitted without further comment.

Perry Ellis belongs on that list before ANY of those freshman, Wiggins included.

The nation is sleeping on Perry, and I get the feeling that he is fine with that. He will just quietly go about his business and when it’s all said and done put up All-American numbers on a (hopefully) National Championship contending team.

Self on Tharpe, THE team leader:

“He has to take ownership for everything,” Self added. “There’s nobody else that can do it yet. He has to buy time for these guys to give them a chance to grow up and he hasn’t done that as well as he can do. Today I thought he did a good job with that.”

Who is this team’s Leader? Question answered. Now don’t make me ask again.

I’m really just throwing this out there for discussion as I don’t have any great insights on this. I keep hearing Wayne’s name thrown out there as a likely candidate to leave after this season. I don’t know - he’s been very good at times, especially for a true Freshman. And I know the whole draft on potential thing - he seems to have the body of a prototypical NBA guard. But the 2014 NBA Draft is going to be the deepest draft in the last ten years and I just personally haven’t seen enough to make me think he’s a likely OAD candidiate. Don’t get me wrong - I love him and his game. He seems to be a very solid person with a good head on his shoulders. It’s still early enough in the season that a lot could change. But as things stand now, I really think he’ll be here next year. (Also why I don’t want JaQuan Lyle.) Maybe just wishful thinking… What do you think?

Fellow Board Folk:

@HighEliteMajor @jessenewell

KU Staff:

@CoachBillSelf @CoachTownsend @Coachjhoward @A_Hudy

Players:

@22Wiggins @SharpeTharpe @jojo_embiid @WayneSeldenJr @T_Self11 @evan_manning5 @Ntharpe1 @AndrewWhite03 @CFrankamp_23 @LandonLucas33 @J_mari31 @b_greene14 @N_Roberts20 @PElliz @TarikBlack25

Signees:

Kelly Oubre: @K_Ctmd22 Cliff Alexander: @humblekid11

Prospects:

Myles Turner: @Original_Turner Stephen Zimmerman: @BIGG_ZIMM Rashad Vaughn: @ShowtimeMr JaQuan Lyle: @JMamba5 @Diamond_Stone33

Merry Christmas all! I’m thankful for our little yet ever-expanding KU community here on kubuckets and look forward to a New Year of discussing our beloved Jayhawks with all if you.

Name suggestions:

Cliftene Alexandra Brooks Jahlil Okafina Brooks Tyusina Jo Brooks

Or if things don’t go our way Fri…

Bella Self Brooks

CONGRATS!!

BTW, I wanted to reassure everyone that we have confirmed that the person logged in as Jesse Newell is, in fact, THE Jesse Newell and not someone misrepresenting him. So, ask away…

I reference this in the thread I started about Wayne Selden but I’m not sure we want/need JaQuan Lyle. There have been some red flags on him behaviorally (why did Louisville pull their offer after he made his visit there?) and academically. Let’s use and develop the backcourt studs we already have.

I’m concerned. I’m not concerned about 4 losses. That’s about what I had projected pre-season. I’m concerned about what appears to me to be a lack of player development. I’m concerned about an apparent lack of game preparation - specifically game-planning. I’m concerned about our in-game adjustments (or lack thereof.) In short, I’m concerned about our assistant coaching and support staff.

Over the last several years we’ve lost Dooley, Hinson and Manning (and I guess you could even include Sadler.) Some of these guys were great player developers. Some were great game-planners. Seems like we’ve replaced them with guys more known for being great recruiters - specifically Jerrance “Snacks” Howard. Mind you, he’s already payed dividends on that front with Cliff Alexander. But what kind of player developer is he? How well does he scout another team and help Coach Self with game planning? How well does he help Coach Self make in-game and halftime adjustments? I have no idea. But I’m starting to wonder - I’m very curious to know which assistant was assigned which game for scouting.

Norm Roberts has more coaching chops and perhaps I shouldn’t lump him in with 'Snacks." I just really am seeing a questionable job in the areas of player prep, development, game-planning and in-game adjustments. I mean, when SDSU were doubling our bigs, why weren’t there wing players cutting to the basket? Is that all on Self? I would say mostly - but it’s also the assistant’s jobs to point these things out for him. It does make me wonder. How much was Dooley and the other now-gone assistants helping make those observations and preparations? It also makes me wonder: Can “Snacks” do more than recruit?

@drgnslayr @iowajayhawk2005 … get a room.

Perhaps higher than we all think. Recent history and common sense would dictate 95% plus confidence in Joel leaving. And he very well might. As Jay Bilas was talking during the OU game about his opinion that Joel should stay another year (or two I think he actually said) I sarcastically laughed and said “yeah, right.” But something he said after that caught my attention. I believe he said that Joel has been gathering the opinion of professional big men who he respects and they’ve been suggesting too that he stay a little longer. Bilas’ take is that Embiid is “the real deal.” He doesn’t have to strike while the iron is hot; or fool anybody with a stat-inflated flash-in-the-pan year. He will get the benefit of the doubt from GM’s even next year if he stalls out and is not showing progress because he has all the physical tools he needs to succeed.

Other factors include his culture as well as his personal/family situation. He is not in a position where his family is in financial dire straits and need him to be the bread winner. In fact his father, The Colonel, whom we can infer values structure and discipline, may very well approach his development looking at the big picture and realize that a year of getting bigger and stronger won’t necessarily improve his draft stock, but will better prepare him for the NBA.

Look. I’m under no illusion that he’s staying. I don’t think it’s probable. I don’t think it’s likely. Chad Ford reported last night that in something like 13 out of 14 scenarios Embiid would be the first pick overall. With injuries to consider, I would not blame him one bit for going. Shoot, I’d go. I guess the point of this post is to suggest its not a done deal and he may actually be considering staying more than I thought he would. What are the odds of Embiid leaving? After consideration of these points, my heart says 50%. My head says 94%.

I’ll second that - I do appreciate the work it took to get this up and running and enjoy seeing more and more familiar names sign on. Now that I’m getting used to the site, I enjoy the format and some of the new features (like the ability to see who is actively browsing.) Thanks approx!

Jayhawkrock78 - that’s the breast comment I’ve seen all day.

Things that surprised me last night and what it means going forward

• Landon Lucas looked pretty good last night. Granted it was against Pitt St. in an exhibition game, but he made the most of his minutes.

So what? With the new foul rules likely testing everyone’s depth this year, he may turn out to be a valuable 5th big coming in. Who knows, maybe he’ll play his way into that 4th spot?

• Speaking of fouls… did I just hear another whistle blow?

So what? Holy cow this is gonna be rough. Add an extra 30 minutes to your DVR for each game as these new foul rules (specifically the hand check rule) are major speed bumps. Self’s comments that it had more to do with bad defending are only 10% true. The truth is, he’s preparing his team for the new reality by not letting them mentally blame the new rules or refs. But even though there was some lazy defending, the lack of flow to the game sits solidly on the shoulders of the new rules.

• Wiggins is human, and he’s just a kid.

So what? Well I’m talking a little tongue-in-cheek here, but I was mildly surprised he showed as many nerves as he did. Selden too. What does this mean going forward? Probably nothing - especially of we see no hint of it in the next exhibition game. But if Wiggins truly is that “alpha dog” Self said we’ve been missing, then we’ll see none of that vs. Duke and definitely by conference season.

Rule #1 - Rock Chalk

Rule #2 - (see rule number one)

Coach Grunhard tweeted the following about 40 minutes ago:

“@KU_oline: Jayhawk nation Ty for making me and my family feel so welcome over the past 2 years. It’s time to a Dad again#swimdad#61&12 Rockchalk!”

I wish him nothing but the best and hopefully this is mutually beneficial to both parties. KU definitely needed a change up on offense and esp on the O-line. Hoping also to see a change at the QB coaching position as I feel Ron Powlus has underachieved at his job as well.

For comparison, last years AP preseason top 10:

1. Indiana
2. Louisville
3. Kentucky
4. Ohio State
5. Michigan
6. NC State
7. Kansas
8. Duke
9. Syracuse
10. Florida

I don’t see Robert Morris on this year or last year’s list. The Kentucky hype-train rolls on.

Still enjoying the reunion on this board and wanted to give thanks again Approx for all your work!

One thing I’ve noticed on here that’s different compared to our old stomping grounds: so many more active threads. Maybe this is a good thing. I’m not sure. Right now I’m finding it a little, I don’t know…schizophrenic? Finding it hard to keep up with the multiple different threads going on.

Maybe it’s just me and the aging process (get off my lawn!) but I think I liked it better when there was one b-ball and one f-ball thread per day.

Just me? If so I’ll shut it.

It was very interesting that Greene came on to play before AWIII in the first half. Greene did look pretty good in limited first half minutes. I’m with HEM wondering if AWIII somehow got in Self’s doghouse or if it was a strategic move. I know we wound up playing extreme small ball with Frank the Tank and Tharpe - but have to think that will be an exception moving forward.

Either way, IMO he needs to pick just one of those guys to give more consistent minutes to. Going forward, we will need a 6th man coming off the bench who can play with confidence and provide points. And they need to KNOW that’s their role - not wonder if they’re playing at all.

31 - 9

Other thought - will Mason take Tharpe’s starting job?

Seems crazy to even be typing that but in many ways Mason outplayed Tharpe last night. It was really very impressive. A true freshman in his second real game playing on national TV in a headline game - the kid is a PLAYER. I found myself wanting the ball in either Ellis, Selden’s, or Mason’s hands at crunch time. Mason was smartly exploiting the new foul situation and sinking his FT’s with poise: 11-12!!

Now the criticism would be he only had one assist, and was playing more like a 2-guard than a true point. He wasn’t really looking to pass but rather to drive and draw fouls. Perhaps that’s why it worked pretty well having both Tharpe and him out their together. But that’s one thing we don’t need is another “combo” guard on this roster. Moving forward he’s going to have to look to dish on more of those drives.

Also wondered if Tyus Jones was thinking: I can beat out that JR but not sure about that TRUE FRESHMAN… Duke it is.

Maybe I’m wrong, but looks like there’s 32 regular season games (excluding exhibitions) then 3 possible Big 12 tourney games (4 if you’re a bottom seed) and 6 possible NCAA tourney games. 41 total games are possible - less obviously if you lose in either tourney.

So, I’m convinced we haven’t offered Jaquan yet. Why? In essence we’d be choosing Lyle over Myles Turner. Turner’s a MUCH better prospect at a position of (possible) greater need. Not to mention the chatter that something significant happened (Academic? Behavioral?) to make Louisville pull their offer - not the other way around.

I just can’t see Self signing 4 kids unless 2 are in the late signing period - and then only if it’s clear any 2 of Selden, Embiid or Ellis (unlikely) are leaving. And since Turner’s not picking until the late signing period I can’t see Self possibly losing Turner by signing Lyle.

The questions that remain:

• Do we really want/need Lyle?
• Is Lyle wanting to come here bad enough to wait - possibly until the Spring?

It’s interesting to hear that Okafor’s mind is made up. Tyus Jones said last nights game would have no impact on his decision, but he also said he still wasn’t sure where he is going.

If that’s true, it gives me hope that Okafor has picked KU and told Tyus come or don’t come - although Okafor’s dad also said they would be going to the same place.

So what I’m saying is, no one knows what is going on. Apparently even the recruits. Clear enough?

As far a Jaquan Lyle, this link indicates Coach Howard watched him yesterday and that he won’t sign until the Spring:

link text

Prayers for a successful procedure and recovery.

Belmont was a “Wrecking Ball” in Chapel Hill:

Miley Makes McAdoo Miss

The more important question for KU fans is do you want Turner as a OAD in his first year or do you want Joel as a sophomore trying to be the #1 pick in the draft?

I’ll take a Sophomore Joel every day of the week and twice on Sundays. With one year under his belt in Self’s system … I mean look at the difference in Freshman Perry and Sophomore Perry. And Joel’s upside is twice that of Perry’s. He would have time to develop his shot blocking and be more polished offensively. Picking Joel is a no-brainer for me.

Updated Lyle info:

• Coach Howard did not watch him yesterday, but reports said that he would watch him later this week.

• Also reports are that he would set up an official visit to KU in the coming weeks.

• Lyle tweeted that he does have an offer from Kansas.

I’ve used my iPhone to post, reply and look up “unread” links. In fact, Im doing all three at this moment.

They can beat anyone at home, but they aren’t as good on the road.

I agree with most of your post, but winning at altitude in the land of the caffeine-free is no joke. That’s a strong road win. Plus, they were a banked three pointer by BMac from beating us at AFH last year. I think ISU is clearly an NCAA tourney team and everyone in the Big12 better be ready to play them, even away from Hilton.

@JayHawkFanToo I hope you don’t misunderstand me. I tried to be clear that I would choose no other coach over Self. The point of this thread is:

1. Does Coach Self know how to coach a special talent like Wiggins?
2. Will a Wiggins “failure” (anything less than 1st team All-american) keep KU from getting other best of the best recruits.?
3. And is that a bad thing? Maybe @highelitemajor is right - maybe we want off this OAD merry-go -round.

@ParisHawk I feel that that Wiggins** does** deserve special treatment. I know he didn’t ask for any of this, but I bet if you ask him, he wants to be considred the premier player everyone hyped him to be. If he is to be a transcendent player, then his games (good and bad) will be under the microscope. That said, this thread is intended to be more about Coach Self and how he handles elite talent.

Who is first?

I’m guessing it was a below average guard on the basketball team named William Self.

Taking a step back, it is sort of humorous that some of us (myself included) are concerned about Coach Self playing too many players and not sticking with a set rotation. I can’t remember how many times through the years I’ve grumbled about him not utilizing our depth.

I dont understand this thread at THIS point in time

All good thoughts @Ralster, but not sure your responses really touched on the essence of the core question. That is, is this Self’s last chance to coach an elite recruit?

I won’t argue many of your points. I think Wiggins and the team are just about on schedule per Coach Self’s expectations and will most likely follow an upward trajectory, as most Self teams do. But fair or unfair, ask anybody outside of the Jayhawk community and the impression is that Wiggins is under performing. Does their opinion matter? Only if you care about getting future Wiggins-like talent. And that’s not being facetious. Maybe you don’t. Maybe you’re in the camp that doesn’t want these OAD’s. That’s fine.

I’m also not saying Self can’t continue to reel in top tier recruits. I think he most certainly will. Cliff Alexander for example. He’s a great talent, but there will be several players in each most year’s classes equal to him. Wiggins was to be that once in a decade talent, right? Probably unfair to say that, but that was the perception. Fair or not, what will the next supposed transcendent player that KU recruits think about Self’s ability to utilize him? If Wiggins doesn’t take flight soon, you know that the people recruiting against KU will point out Wiggins (and Selby) for the duration of Bill Self’s coaching career. Fair or not.

I gave the caveat that it was early. Maybe you’re right - too early for this thread at this point in time. But this is a friendly - and civil - place to throw out this morsel for us board rats to chew on. So, I’ll rephrase the core question: if Andrew Wiggins performs the rest of the year as he has to present, will this be the last elite talent Bill Self is able to recruit?

Keegen wrote a nice article

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I’m gonna have to stop you right there. I’ll keep it civil and all, but I read that article as well, and was quickly reminded of why I don’t read Keegan articles. The first 4 paragraphs (half of the article) was a disjointed mishmash of his thoughts and anecdotes that really had nothing to do with KU vs Florida. I enjoy the memory of that game and the players involved. I just wish Corporal Keegan hadn’t commandeered the recollection with his classic blather.

He is the Sports Editor and should be capable of reporting and analyzing. To me, he (unsuccessfully) attempts to wax poetic and all too often there’s not enough meat on the bone. But to each his own @JayHawkFanToo.

I have two pretty firm beliefs - 1) that as a player, you can’t be a leader unless you’re playing. Only exception might be the older professional player that is at the tail end of his career. 2) that a player can be a true leader unless he is verbal, meaning will talk, express himself, and direct others.

I agree @HighEliteMajor. I would add to those criteria the need to have at least 1 if not 2 years already under your belt. To really know Self and his system/methods it take a couple of years of indoctrination. Greene is a freshman and his PT is still in flux. Black may get the PT (although not much due to fouls) but doesn’t have those previous years of indoctrination to be that extension of Self on the floor. That leaves Tharpe. Will he step up?

Sam Mellinger of the KC Star with a column written from the future. I found it interesting he touched on several of the leadership questions that I brought up on this thread:

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/12/12/4689324/one-blueprint-to-a-ku-basketball.html

Also, I don’t care what’s been promised. From here on out, Landon Lucas is the first big off the bench. Then Jamari. Then Tarik Black. It’s better for KU’s present and future to give the PT to those guys.

Who starts at the 2 next season if Selden declares?

I could see Frankamp at the 2. Or we could continue to see Mason and Tharpe out there together. Maybe Greene. Knowing Self it’ll be whoever is the best defender at that point and time.

@iowajayhawk2005 @KUSTEVE I’m really mostly wondering about his opponent scouting for upcoming games and X’s and O’s ability. I don’t think any of us really know if that is a strength of his or not. As I mentioned, I would love to know which asst. coach was assigned which game to scout. It might answer some questions. Who knows - he may be the best schematic coach since Wooden. My point is, the assistant coach turnover is a variable that should be considered in this team which has struggled to progress at the rate expected by Coach Self. He himself said we aren’t where he thought we would be.

Player development falls under the asst. coach responsibilities, so I added that as an area to watch as well. As far as Embiid, Traylor and Lucas - correct me if I’m wrong - but Howard doesn’t focus on “bigs” as a position coach. I believe he helps out with the guards. The player development I’m specifically looking at is Wiggins, Selden, and Tharpe.

BTW @iowajayhawk2005 … No need to call names - I’ve noticed you’ve done that elsewhere in responses on other threads. If you were to ever have a good point to make it would be lost in the name calling.

I am the best poster on this site bar none. I have yet to see a single post that is even in the same realm of my intelligence. Everyone else’s posts are almost as boring as watching andrew wiggins stand at the free throw line extended while he watches other players run around.

quote from @iowajayhawk2005 re: his opinion of everyone