Best posts made by HawkChamp

After all the crap the team has received about being soft and Self’s worst, that was 2012 level tough. Very impressive.

1. Teams that have a crazy shooting night from three - check

2. Double digit seed in the elite eight - check

3. Jay Wright and Villanova in the final four - check

4. North Carolina in the championship game - check

Tournament run for the ages.

From kusports.com - “We’re not gonna back down from anybody or let anybody punk us.”

I love the attitude by our guys. The upperclassmen have had hard losses in the tourney by teams that have been tougher. Wichita State in 2015 absolutely punked them and was a tougher team. Nova was not quite as bad but Ochefu owned all the bigs, including Landen, and Jenkins, Hart and Arccidiacano had the upper hand against the guards. Even if they lose, it won’t be because they softened up or anything like that. It’s actually a good thing that we played Izzo early, as it tested the mental and physical toughness of our team.

Winning in the tournament is all about toughness and I am glad that our guys have developed that mentality which will allow them to be in a good position moving forward.

Can’t believe this thread title made it past the censors.

I think it’s a possibility. Long ways to go but he is playing at Sherron+ levels.

Just thinking about this but since Self has been here at Kansas, every year we have played Davidson we eventually made it to the final four.

2008 - National champions

2012 - National runner up

2017 - ?

Me with Silvio at the game tonight.

@approxinfinity Udoka is going to be dominant and a player of the year candidate next year. Contrary to my earlier feelings, we will have a really good team next year.

Most likely, Carlton is still trying to figure out how to do what Self and the staff are expecting of him. That coupled with a different style of play than last year and we have the confusion that Carlton is experiencing. I do think it is entirely within the realm of possibility that he figures out how he is going to go about his role. Like slayer has been saying, he is having a lot thrown at him and he needs time to digest all of it. I do not think that he is incapable of performing better nor is he inept.

Back when I was playing, I had a situation where I switched schools and played for two different teams in as many years. With all new players, coaches, personnel and philosophies, it was hard through the first few months to get adjusted to everything. But I always played my best at the end of season in February and March and in one tournament I was co MVP.

In short, there is no reward for starting the season well. You don’t get a bye game in the tournament or any bonus points because you didn’t lose a game in November. We saw the same thing last year with Landen. Everyone was upset with Self and called for his benching, yet he started to figure out his role in the post and made his bunnies. I will be patient with Carlton.

I have been saying over the course of the past three months that the 2018 team will have as good of a shot at a title as any in the past six years, if the players contribute in expected ways. The balance should be as good as it was in 2011 and 2008. We have speed, length, shot blocking and post presence.

But some people just have hurdles placed in their lives, for whatever reason, that are a major factor in preventing success. I’m sure we all know of someone that has such challenges, as we all most likely have those as well. For one William Self, the elite eight is the bane of his existence. He even admitted as such this past year prior to the Oregon game that it is the hardest round of the tournament.

The truth is, that statement proves everything I have thought for years - Bill Self gets a little tight. You might not be able to see it from your sofa hundreds of miles away, but the team in shootaround, the locker room and the pre game meal is feeling it. Bill thinks it is the hardest round, therefore it is.

I don’t know how much longer Bill is going to be around at KU. Will he coach till he is 65? 70? I wouldn’t bet on it. Squandered isn’t the right word, but three or four really good chances at bringing home the university’s fourth or even fifth title have been squandered. Coincidentally, with exception of 2010 (hard to count 2013), every one of those teams has fallen in the “hardest round”. And its always the same reason, right? “We just shot poorly” is the reason given, almost without a second thought.

But the analytical watcher and one who has given time to reflect on all this will pose the question: is there a correlation amongst all these elite eight losses? Is it possible that there really is pressure on Bill and he, perhaps unwittingly, passes it on to the team? How do teams with multiple great shooters all of a sudden become terrible? And no, despite opinions that shooting comes and goes in short periods of time in rather dramatic fashion (don’t want to mention names but his profile reads Jaybate), I have a very hard time believing it. As a shooter in high school myself, who, not to brag but I was regarded as perhaps the best at my 4A school by an assistant coach, did not experience such a phenomenon as described by some, I whole heartedly dismiss such flimsy conjectures on the point. A sample size of various teams over the course of ten years, coupled with those teams also experiencing the lowest scoring output of their respective years, proves that these occurrences all have one thing in common - Bill Self. The only year where I would say it was more than nerves or it was some other cause would be against Villanova, as in a one possession we had, IIRC, six more turnovers than them, which is a significant amount.

I love having Bill here and I don’t want to see him leave. BUT, he has to figure this out. He needs to figure out what went well in the 2012 elite eight game and try to improve things this next year.

From the looks of things, KU will be at the top for the third year in a row. I believe Arizona, WSU, KU, Michigan State and maybe some other team will prove to be the best teams this coming year. I like our chances once again and I think that Bill will eventually sort this out. He is too smart and cunning to let this go on forever. But if he doesnt, maybe its time a player, like a Devonte Graham who has plenty of moxy, puts the team on his back and says “I’m tired of losing in the elite eight and we’re going to make it this year to the final four.” Devonte has the Ryan Boatwright/Kemba Walker/Shabazz Napier court attitude. I’ve been saying this for a while now. People around on other boards have said that Devonte is just a good senior player, nothing more. But like dragonslayer pointed out a few months ago, Devonte is the real key to March. We saw how good he was leading up to the Oregon game, and how brilliant he was against Purdue.

This year’s team has all the pieces, if it can put them together. We have senior leadership, capable scorers, shooters, decent depth in the post and a seven footer that isn’t going to let someone like Jordan Bell own the paint. Because of Dok, I think our team defense should also reflect his shot blocking prowess and rim protection, but we still need better perimeter defense. Last year, Svi and Devonte were probably the worst we had and they will be counted on to perform. If they don’t guard well, it doesn’t matter who is back waiting at the rim. It puts the team in a bad decision when there are breakdowns one on one and can lead to foul trouble for both forwards and guards. Hopefully someone on the team noticed this glaring problem from last year and they have been working on it all summer. We’ll see in a few months.

Self also seems pretty optimistic about desousa. Said he is retaking the test today as “insurance”.

Anyone see his press conference remarks about how K State fans should approach the rivalry game? He really put the rivalry into proper perspective, which I suppose is always easier when you’ve won a national title. Very impressed with how he handles his business, with his type of coaching he may not last there too long.

“ I know I’m going to upset some people. I feel like we, the Kansas State community and family, allow them to live rent free in our heads way too much."

https://twitter.com/zaccarlson/status/1615116020682743808

With the start of conference season around the country, the beginning of competition with conference foes is the time that separates the men from the boys, the contenders from the pretenders. This proved to be true yesterday with Indiana losing at home to Nebraska, Villanova barely holding on at home to a lowly DePaul (sub 200 rpi, IIRC), Virginia systematically dismantling Louisville on the road and UCLA losing its first game of the season.

As we all know, a team’s conference opponents know them the best. Every set, player and coaching tendency and road game rims are all quite familiar. Our first road game is at TCU, a team that is definitely better under Jamie Dixon and has terrific balance. However, they do not have the talent that KU does, so there is nothing wrong about expecting a W. What I really want to see is defensive improvement. After watching games from around the country over the past month and a half, it is evident that the strongest defensive that can compliment their game with a bit of offense will have the most success this year, just like every year. UCLA, for example, relies on offense. Jay Williams mentioned this on the halftime show of the UCLA-Oregon game - even described it as horrific. Sooner or later, they will have to develop a defensive identity to win games when they aren’t shooting their average.

So far, except for the Davidson game, I haven’t really seen that from our guys. I feel as though commitment to individual defense is not where it needs to be, which makes team defense difficult to improve. I said on another thread that our players really need to sit down and watch teams that play with 110% effort on the defensive end of the floor. Virginia and some of Self’s past teams would be great examples. Our offense will be fine (still waiting for Carlton to commit to a role which is really the missing piece) - it is the other end that needs attention. Simple things like calling ICE, hedging, not falling asleep watching the ball (Devonte has done this numerous times) and not over helping on drives need improvement.

To me, there isn’t any reason that we can’t be one of the premier defensive teams in the country like Virginia and Villanova. This team has a great combo of talent and experience and if they focus on making improvements and maintain the same focus every defensive possession, then the conference schedule won’t stand in the way of a one seed. I saw some predicting 14-4 and 13-5 - sorry but that will not get a one seed in any way, shape or form. There is simply way too much competition to have five or six losses and expect a top seed - Villanova, UNC, UCLA, Duke , Baylor, Gonzaga, Kentucky and Virginia are all very good. Even when the top teams in the conferences beat each other up, the best thing to do is stand out among the crowd by only having three or four losses total. I don’t care if some say Morgantown is hard to win at or that Ames is tough. Sorry, but we have the talent and experience to get those wins. Like slayer’s slogan says - NO EXCUSES!

@CRH107 why coach doesn’t use Coleby more ill never understand. Carlton plays weak - that’s all there is to it. He doesn’t show much fight down low. Give me Coleby any day of the week.

I was watching some videos of scrimmages from this past summer and noticed that Carlton has some really nice moves - like next level moves. Here is a link to one of the videos

At 1:35, UA has a nice hook shot over Landon.
At 1:53, Carlton has a really nice step back jumper.

Yes, I know - these are not official games. But, it shows the higher level potential is there. To me, the most important aspect for success this year is Carlton. There is a big hole left by Perry and we need someone to fill it. Yes, he needs to do more inside, but, IMO, being able to spread the floor out to the three point line is more important. That opens up the lane for everyone else. That step back move is something that Wiggins did and it is very hard to guard. I’m hoping he has also worked more on his handles to drive the lane like Perry, something that I have mentioned before. Perry was so difficult to guard because he could make threes and blow by defenders. I don’t think Carlton has the same speed as Perry, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be effective in a similar manner. I hope coach encourages him to take open jumpers and doesn’t insist on pounding the ball inside.

For UA to have meaningful minutes, he just needs to not do anything he is not capable of. Keep his hands up, don’t reach and gamble for steals, get rebounds and make a few post moves. I have noticed he is prone to shuffling his feet when he gets the ball down low. He is so big that he doesn’t need to try to do extra maneuvers - just collect the ball and go up with it. I’m sure Landon and the coaching staff are helping him with this.

@BShark or we could have shot closer to our average. We had no business losing that game.

@drgnslayr I think Landen understands the situation and is starting to figure out how to play in his new role. He figured it out last year and he will figure it out again. I think some people forget how the beginning of last year went and how disjointed it was at certain points. The 08 team did not jump out of the gate as the best team either. Like you said, we all knew Dok would be raw but has a lot of potential. To me what I am seeing is not surprising at all and I don’t why anyone else is. He has come a long way in the first month and has several nice moves in the post, something that people were saying he wouldn’t be able to do and yet he can. It’s the old question - play our vets a lot now or play the freshman with a lot of potential to get experience. IMO, Dok has too much talent and potential to sit on the bench, even in a tight game. If he doesn’t get PT now, then we can’t count on him in March, and we will need him.

Despite what people are saying, I thought the first half yesterday was pretty good - seemed like the guys thought the game was over and didn’t play with any energy the second half, simple as that.

I think everyone forgets that the season is a marathon, not a sprint. If it was, UNC and UCLA would be in the title game, but it isn’t. Coach and the team know what needs to improve. Those areas just need a little tweaking and improvement in order to take this team to the top. I have said in the past this team is at no disadvantage when compared to other teams. Not having Bragg would make things more difficult but I am staying positive that something good will happen for him. Just because we don’t have a NPOY candidate in the post doesn’t mean this team can’t compete for a championship. I think OU, UConn and Nova have proved that exceptional guard play is the foundational piece to make the final four with the big guys rebounding, not fouling and making smart plays, and I believe that Landen and Dok can do more than those three items.

Jayhawk nation thanks you Lon and company!!!

@kjayhawks that loss is looking worse and worse every day. Thanks a lot Loosiers

I agree with others - we have every right to be suspicious of the Star’s motivations for reporting this stuff.

Now everyone, we are all frustrated about what has transpired. I started this thread for informational purposes and do not want everyone getting mad at each other. I am sure that Bill knows much more about this and I am confident in his ability to handle it properly. I personally doubt charges will ever be filed against Vick and JJ, so let’s all take a step back and wait for more info.

In my opinion, margin of victory means nothing come March. We have had super dominant teams that bowed out early (97, 10 and 11) and a team with a super thin bench that went to the title game. There is no way to know for sure whether or not the number of blowouts indicates future success in March - the tournament is too unpredictable and one game where a team plays tight could be their last.

13 is, for all practical purposes, locked up. The toughest game by far is at Stoolwater. Almamateritis has always plagued Bill there and its time to get a W there - the last time was 2013.

First blow out in a long time. Need to can that second half performance. Very solid

@jaybate-1.0 Yes I agree. I recommended switching between man and zone on the other thread, as it would hopefully make Purdue stand around a bit and make them think. BUT save the bulk of the wrinkles for the second half. Keep it close then go all out if need be.

I like the zone because, as you said, there is a second man behind Biggie. If Josh/Svi/Lagerald front the post, Landen or Coleby can be behind Biggie, thus eliminating the post entry. Something I remember from the Kentucky game is Landen playing higher up in the lane making it more like a 2 - 1 - 2 zone. That pretty much eliminates the high post from being wide open and Biggie having an open 15 foot jumper.

You may be right about a zone working better for Purdue than for us. However, Frank is one of the fastest players in the nation and should be able to break a zone down if needed. That is one of the most crucial aspects of winning in March - you have to have a player that can go get a bucket at any given point.

If this team had another fast guard, I wonder if Bill would press more often. Frank and Devonte are great at pressuring the other team in the back court - Devonte in particular is capable of pick pocketing at certain points, and Josh’s length helps him to get out in passing lanes. I would say only press if need be.

In order to have a great defensive team, or at least a very good defensive team, it all starts with the individual players. Average defenders will never form a very good or great defense. Just not happening. Each has to have the necessary positioning knowledge and lateral quickness in order to be effective at stopping the opposing player from getting to where he wants to be. Some defenders, like Mario and Russell Robinson, were extremely adept at being disruptive not only with positioning but also with their hands, poking away passes and getting deflections that in turn made life miserable for the opposition. This individualistic philosophical fact about defense MUST be present before larger collective strategies can be employed.

We all know and remember just how effective the 08 team’s collective and individual defensive prowess was - “Help the helper’s helper”. That’s fine and dandy.

Villanova and Oregon were brought up in the other thread as well. There are only a few coaches whose systems give Bill a problem, and those two, along with West Virginia and Michigan State, give him the most problems. For some reason, those styles of play have elements (body composition and attitude of players, defensive schemes, etc) that promote difficulties for our coach to combat. A few months ago, I recommended that we start recruiting the types of players that give us trouble, but I doubt that will ever happen, and it doesn’t necessarily have to.

I will offer a prediction. We have lost in Morgantown the last four years and each of those years (minus the Stanford loss) has resulted in a defeat at the hands of a similar team to West Virginia. This year, in spite of the absence of numerous players, WVU stil has Jevon Carter, Lemonte West, Elijah Macon and Esa Ahmad, all players that have given our guys fits the last few years. If we can secure a W in Morgantown, then I predict we will be headed to the final four. Why? Because it proves that our guys can compete successfully against tough, talented and defensive minded systems with HOF level coaches, something they have been unable to do the last few years.

Now the summary of our present roster. The last really good or very good defensive team Self had was the 2012-2013 team. Yes, they had a bad mid season slump, but every team goes through that. I advise you all to watch, assuming it is still there, their home game against K State from 2013. Their defensive level is a bit higher than the past three or four years and it is plainly obvious. Yes, I know about the rule changes and what not. But rule changes have zippo, zilch natta to do with good positioning and active hands. Let’s stop making excuses for bad mechanics and fundamentals and say that the past few years have been under our, and Self’s, normal standard.

It seems to me that after the mass exodus of the 2013 team that the defensive aptitude of the players Self recruited was lacking. And this is a very bad trait, IMO, to lack. Texas Hawk is correct - defense wins championships. In college basketball, I can think of a bunch of teams that went to the final four that relied primarily on toughness and defense, but I can’t think of many that went there with primarily offense. And no, you should not reference Roy. If you haven’t noticed, even he has amped up the level of D his teams play at, and it became noticeable to me in his 2009 championship team, and plain as day in 2016 and 2017, which by the way was his THIRD time taking a team to back to back final fours.

In order to see a title for this upcoming season, it all starts with Devonte’s defense out front. His lateral quickness and agility, at least to me, has always seemed a bit short of where a point guard should be. I am not aware of how Bill teaches individual defense and how he relates lateral quickness to defensive aptitude, but I would imagine that he works on it. If Devonte and Svi don’t get it together, there will be no title this year. Probably not even a final four. That’s just how important it is for success. But there is little reason that I can think of why it can’t be better, as in holding teams to 65 or fewer ppg, as Texas Hawk pointed out.

Like I said before in the “We Need a Title” thread, this next year is very important. We have a good combination of balance and experience plus three players that are capable of being first team all americans and/or Big 12 player of the year in Graham, Newman and Dok, each with an outside chance of NPOY. We have shooters, tons of offense, legit post presence, rebounding, shot blocking and speed. All we need now is some perimeter D and we are set to go.

You know, its interesting what teams have succeeded in the tournament (final four or further) and which ones haven’t. You can have all the pieces, depth and experience possible and yet still lose. We had great teams the last two years and yet fizzled out to the same style of team. 2010 and 2011 teams only lost two games going into March and had loads of talent and depth and yet still lost. Izzo’s teams with all the pieces still lose early sometimes. Arizona, even with all the talent and experience last year, still fizzled out in the sweet sixteen to Xavier, an 11, and yet everyone is talking about how they have a much better chance than we do. Sorry, I disagree. Arizona and Michigan State don’t have any better chance to get to San Antonio than we do - thats just not how the tournament works.

I say this because I’m reading what others are saying elsewhere on other KU sites and many think the elite eight is this team’s ceiling. I’m sure they thought the sweet sixteen was the 2012 team’s ceiling. Its important to not predict stuff like that because it is impossible to predict what will happen over the course of the season.

For those questioning our big man depth, which may or may not be a problem, how many bigs did Nova ACTUALLY play on their way to the title? That’s right - only one. And yet they still beat a team with four legit 6’10, 6’11 bigs in the title game. Need I mention UConn again? Its all about guard play, and I am stoked after seeing our guards these last few exhibition games, especially Marcus Garrett.

Ive been saying it a lot lately - play smart, not stupid. Given that there are no injuries, if our bigs play SMART, such as not committing stupid fouls and stuff like that, we will be fine. Dok trying to poke an entry pass away is stupid play - no reason to be risking fouls like that. We can play traditional, or we can play four out (probably for the majority). We saw how effective the guard oriented offense was last year and how we completely dominated a much larger Purdue team. Btw, have I mentioned how I love Billy’s skill? His fadeaway is money.

My only concern is with injuries, everything else I am less concerned with.

@bskeet lol at rupp arena ahead of Allen field house

I take back everything I said - for now. Hallelujah!!!

DoubleDD said:

I’m not sure you can fix Doka’s shooting mechanics. Remember this kid didn’t start playing organized basketball until later in his life. He so far behind the learning curve on how to actually shoot, I’m just not sure there is enough time to catch up?

there may not be enough time, but of course it can be fixed. I don’t believe that he is physically incapable of moving his right elbow inward toward his rib cage, nor do I believe he is incapable of releasing the ball on his right side instead of his left. Until definitively proven otherwise, I believe it can be fixed.

@BShark Mitch has really upped his game lately. Very impressed with the progress he has made in recent weeks.

Yeah, the second half looked like the very first game of the year. MSU made sure to not let Dedric beat them and he still got something like 22 points and 17 rebounds. No one can stop our inside play. I thought Dotson and Grimes did a lot of good things. Dotson will learn how and when to attack in transition, but still a lot of good things. We have a long way to go and we are already really good. Gonna be a great year guys.

@Fightsongwriter looking at it that way doesn’t matter as much, really. College and the pros are two different games. Plus, it’s amazing how much of a different tune folks are singing in hindsight, when early on everyone was saying there was NO CHANCE last years team could anything they accomplished. The overreactions in December are rearing their ugly head once again, and we’ve already beat four ranked teams and are 9-0 for the first time since 2010-2011 season.

@BigBad I disagree largely with the notion that he has a low ceiling. Yes, a player to have a high ceiling does have to have good fundamentals and skills on both sides of the ball, but he does things on offense that no one on that team can do and you can tell that he is giving more effort onto the defensive side of the ball. Is he great defensively? Absolutely not, but he is putting in the effort to guard and right now that’s the best we will get. To me, it is a no-brainer to have him please significant minutes. He was an absolute star at Arizona State And, as Greg McDermott pointed out, has made much progress overall. He is a net positive overall for the team, and that may be enough to get us W’s in two more games. Only time will tell.

Thread title reminds me of tortilla chips with Pace salsa

Bold prediction - Self gets two more titles before he retires and is in the top tier with K and Wooden when he retires in his late sixties.

Easily the Villanova game. Villanova shot and extremely good percentage from three, made 13 threes and made us play in the half court and still got dominated by us most of the game. I mean, our guys scored 1.58 points per possession. The execution and shot making was amazing. Not to mention the defense to start the game was literally straight out of 08 with the quickness and trapping. Honestly one of the best executed games I’ve seen a Self team play, factoring in the opponent and that it was a high stakes game.

KJ spraying in those free throw jumpers has been an excellent addition and makes us even harder to guard. I like it a lot

@drgnslayr you are correct. A lot of folks are going full on sky-is-falling without looking at this logically. Typical fan overreaction that results in bashing Juan. We won’t have the 3-in-3 problem the rest of the way so hopefully we are good fam.

@mayjay I have heard folks talking about that and it is a good idea. Of course, one cant help dream about a scenario where he plays with us this year. Is he versatile enough to play the four? He looks pretty quick from what I’ve seen. Would be sweet to have him and Dok play at the same time. Thats two legitimate shot blockers and a lot of length on the front line.

@drgnslayr I am surprised that UNC is not being discussed more - only Paige and Johnson are gone. It will be tough for Nova to recreate last year, especially since Spellman was declared ineligible.

Btw, I was re watching the highlights from last year when we pounded Texas on their senior night - the look on Shaka’s face when we went up 15 - 0 at the beginning was classic.

11-0 run in one minute. Smart decisions, Brag, UA and Svi rebounding and mason driving. I like it

@jaybate-1.0 after these first few games, it is clear we should all temper our expectations heavily like in 2011-2012. There are kinks that I assumed would be fixed by now but arent, which gives this team an outside chance at a final four. I think there can be improvements throughout the year, but until guys start taking it personally when they get beat on the glass, the numbers won’t improve. Hopefully Bragg will decide to stay for his junior year. Devonte could windup staying also. Josh will go because of “potential”.

Having some losses is not a bad thing. Michigan was highly ranked to start the year in 2012-13, wound up with seven losses, a four seed yet made a run in the tourney. This team could do something similar to that once the pieces fit and everyone focuses on improving the weaknesses.

@dylans ESPN hype machine - I have made the choice this year to not follow national media for a reason. I will stick to the KU sites.

@Kcmatt7 we would be in great shape if Duval commits. There is also a decent chance either, Devonte, Carlton or Svi decide to stay. We would be loaded next year.

Disagree with piper - need to keep giving Dok the ball on the block

@globaljaybird after being on the road for a while, this type of game is what they need. Also a good opportunity for Dok

They are talking about it during the game. Looks like the tripper intentionally stuck his leg out again.

@DoubleDD can only imagine how disappointed Dok and his teammates are. Like Bill said, they will rally around this.

People keep saying that Devonte will leave but unless he picks it up, he will be back. So far, he has not played at the level I thought he would.

We would have a terrific core next year with Graham, Vick, Carlton, Dok, Newman and maybe Svi. Add in our star recruits and we are a championship contender once again. Oh and can’t forget Coleby and Lightfoot!