I think we’re all missing the larger positive here. The moral fiber of today’s high level D-1 basketball player has never been higher. Here we have Kansas offering them bags of cash as well as homes/jobs for their parents and yet instead they’re taking the high ground and choosing to go to Duke/Kentucky/Memphis for free. The future is truly bright.
It’s Christmas morning everyone. Merry Christmas!
Houston and UConn have a total of six losses. Two are to this KU team. This “no good really bad KU team with the crappy PG, no depth and the PF who doesn’t shoot or rebound”.
What a gift that we get to be KU fans and have a down year like this.
I appreciate the intel I can find here from the little birdies our friends at Buckets know…so thanks to all of you who contribute to that. I only know one birdie…one of my best friends who happens to be the head coach of the only other school that offered Jossell…Dallas Baptist. Here are a few of his paraphrased thoughts:
–Athletic kid. Great teammate. Works super hard. Tries on D. Decent shooter if he gets his feet set.
–Recruiting service had him #73…in Texas…not the nation. This morning that jumped to #26…in Texas.
–Thinks he’s too small and not strong enough to defend at KU’s level.
–5’11’’ shooting guard who isn’t Jeff Boschee or Phil Forte and isn’t much of a playmaker for others.
–Thinks they potentially took him to both get Jethro and to help get Harrison Ingram
–A bunch of low majors came to look and didn’t offer. His HS coach was thrilled that DBU offered…THRILLED.
–Was the backup PG on his AAU team behind a guy who went to Indiana St
–Only got a 3* rating after KU offered and didn’t have any star rating or national profile on Rivals until then
–Said Frank Mason is not a comparison…“Toughness and grit are miles apart”
–My friend is totally baffled by this. Not one other offer besides a local D2 school…and Kansas. He’s not sure why.
–To be clear…my friend LOVES the kid. He’s thrilled for him personally. He also thought he’d be a great D2 point guard.
I just asked him his honest thoughts and he shared them. Not one ounce of negative in his voice so don’t take the above as anything other than his fair evaluation. For sure not crapping on him or sour over losing him.
I’m just the messenger here. I’ve laughed with my friend…HARD…about all of how this has played out. Never in a million years did he think he’d be recruiting against Kansas for anybody. He’s also a KU guy. His dad coached at KU with Ted Owens. He was a student manager the years we were there together (94-98) under Roy. Loves Kansas and wishes the best for Jossell. Just wishes (as a coach) that he could coach him and have him there.
Wisconsin was ahead by 15 with 25 seconds left with all of their walk-ons in the game…and Michigan was in a full-court press. It left Wisconsin in a bad position so their coach called timeout. Howard got mad…told his team to then foul when the ball was inbounded…tried to avoid Greg Gard in the handshake line…told him “I’ll remember that sh**” and it went from there. It’s pretty simple…if Juwan wanted the game to just be over…he shouldn’t have been pressing full court against walk-ons. If he’s coaching his team to play 40 minutes, he’s gotta let Greg Gard do the same.
Then just be an adult instead of a 14-year-old boy who wants to prove how tough he is. I like that Howard said that Gard ‘put his hands on him’ (a two-handed handshake like so many that happen all the time) and that he felt the need to defend himself…all 6’10’’ 250 of him…against the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Spare me.
I grew up in Madison and am a Badger fan. Here’s my take…
–He’s Quentin Grimes. Brown came to UW with really big expectations as a 5-star…especially as he had offers from Ohio St/Michigan/etc. The burden of expectations is hard. He just didn’t improve and less-heralded guys beat him out for a spot and he was frustrated.
–He did play on occasion, but the article linked above that says he was an ‘important part of the Wisconsin offensive line for the last two seasons’ is just complete nonsense. He redshirted…barely played last year…and was a full-blown turnstyle at LT when he played this year. His greatest contribution was in Wisconsin’s jumbo package when he lines up as an extra TE or FB.
–There were veiled comments by coaches about needing to ‘work on technique’. If you read between the lines, it seems like he either wasn’t coachable or wasn’t picking up what he was being taught. He was given tons of opportunities to earn a spot, but didn’t do it. UW even moved their starting LT from last year inside to guard so Brown could play LT…and he got beaten out.
–The ‘incident’ was that he apparently knocked a freshman DL out cold after a practice fracas was supposedly over. I don’t get the sense that he would’ve gotten tossed from the team based on this alone, but there isn’t much out there on what else may have been happening behind closed doors.
Hopefully a change of scenery and realistic expectations follow him and he has success at KU. He fits the stud LT profile athletically and size-wise. For some reason it just didn’t click at Wisconsin.
For those with an Athletic subscription, here’s a cool story from before the transfer about him working through his battle with diabetes…https://theathletic.com/3492957/2022/08/09/logan-brown-wisconsin-badgers-diabetes/
I grew up in Madison and claim (along with @wissox) the Badgers as my second team. There are a couple things here…
–Every program has meetings like these. The fact that Gard met with them and listened for well over an hour without responding is some evidence that he’s not ruling with an entirely iron fist.
–The tape was significantly edited to make Gard look bad. The meeting was over two hours long with dialog going back and forth, but the only parts that were leaked (37 minutes worth) were the parts where the players aired their grievances.
–The meeting ended with Gard taking full responsibility and no dry eyes in the room according to one of the seniors that was in the room.
–There is some smoke that it was an assistant coach that wasn’t retained that could be who leaked it. It’s all the more hairy with that as that coach is the all-time leading scorer at Wisconsin (Alando Tucker). Imagine Danny Manning doing this and you have an idea.
–There have been rumblings for a few years that Gard isn’t the easiest guy to play for. Some former players have rallied behind him, but all of them had Gard as an assistant coach and not the head guy. We all know that oftentimes assistant coaches are more of the friend while the head coach is the authority. There are also rumors about past assistants leaving because of his leadership style and some former players that potentially steered recruits elsewhere because of the style Gard demands that they play. Lots of hearsay, but smoke nonetheless.
–Last season was a really frustrating one for the team and its fans. They were preseason top 5 after winning the B1G the year before and returning everyone…including 7 seniors and all 5 starters. They REALLY underachieved and there were a few individual players who took massive steps back in their development. That’s alarming at Wisconsin as they are largely a developmental program rather than a 5* recruit chaser. I don’t think that frustrations were real only at Wisconsin last season, but this does give a little more insight into the players mindset in all of it.
None of this is helpful for the program, the coaches involved or the players involved. The reality now is that the validity of the program is in question…the head coach’s care for his players is in question…a beloved Badger legend is under suspicion for throwing this bomb calling his care for the program into question…the players who left are now all likely seen in a unique light and many are calling them ‘soft’…and while no one has jumped into the transfer portal ‘yet’ (hopeful that won’t happen)…having the dirty laundry out there like this is just not the dream.
I watched the Final a few days ago for the first time since April and came away with one thing for certain…KU got 20 unbelievable minutes from their point guards in the 2nd half. Harris was square in the middle of everything during the comeback and Remy hit huge shots and had the big block in the final minute on Love. As I remember it, I will spend almost no time thinking of Harris’s brain fart with four seconds left as much as I’ll think of how great those two were late…and KU needed both
All I know is this…I’m gonna hug my dog as much as I can before I go to bed. You just never know…
So if Gassnola is deemed a booster in regards to KU…shouldn’t it be pretty clear that others play similar roles with other schools with other shoe companies? It seems then like any representative of Nike, UA, Kangaroos ( I wish KU was sponsored by Kangaroos by the way) who has communicated at all with a member of a coaching staff of any school at any time would be deemed a booster. Am I missing something here? At what point does a shoe company rep become a booster? If it is simply the “request by university staff to assist” part then doesn’t every school with a shoe sponsorship have boosters that work for those companies and schools?
Rothstein also tweeted about guys playing 94 feet of defense. I’ve always wanted to see KU press so hopefully that’ll come to fruition. Seems like they have the athletes and depth to do it
I still hit up Yellow Sub if I’m in town (last time was pre-Covid)
For what it’s worth…one of my best friends from college (who is a fellow KU grad) is the head coach at the D-2 school that is the other listed offer (Dallas Baptist). He loves Jossell’s game, but said he isn’t the kind of recruit that would get fans excited. That said, he couldn’t believe that Jossell didn’t have at least mid-major D-1 offers. Apparently there might be an AAU teammate of his that KU is after too.
My buddy thought he was in pretty good shape to get him and then KU spent a whole day with him in Dallas. He thought it was just a casual visit and then he saw the same tweet we all did announcing KU’s offer. We were texting today and he’s hoping Jossell will go the hat route and have the KU and DBU hats on the table and then to have the press release say ‘Jossell chose Kansas over Dallas Baptist’.
Frustrating last ten minutes last night, but it’s so fun to have college basketball back. Couple thoughts from the game…
The only justification Self could ever have to play either Lucas or Traylor is that they help on the glass and on the defensive end. It’s clearly never been about their offense (understatement of the year). What we saw last night, especially in the last 7 minutes, was a team that couldn’t get a defensive rebound and an MSU team that had no fear of having their shot blocked at the rim. If Lucas and Traylor can’t provide blocked or altered shots at the rim or get a defensive rebound, then they have no purpose being on the court. It’s been multiple years and we’ve yet to see either of those things from them so to expect that to appear now seems a bit too optimistic for me and why it’s so frustrating to see them continually get the playing time that they do.
With how good of a shooting team this is, I think it’s great to have guards who can break down defenses off the dribble. That said, when Mason/Graham/Selden drove last night, it was often reckless and out of control. Rarely saw eyes up looking for shooters to dish to and often left them taking tough shots or getting a charge. Add that to having no real offense other than having the guards just drive and create their own shot, it makes for just plain bad offense.
I always enjoy the discussions here. Glad to have a place to talk KU hoops.
As a Wisconsin fan as well, I think adding Storr would be a mistake for KU. High volume shooter with really poor shot selection at times. Doesn’t rebound or defend. He is stupid athletic and can score in bunches at times, but more often than not his big scoring games were due to taking a ton of shots. It’s no coincidence that Wisconsin went from a high level defensive team in 22-23…returned basically their entire lineup and added Storr…and became a below average defensive team in 23-24. He was also a total no-show in the tourney. Wisconsin was certainly better off having him this year, but it came at a cost.
@Hawk8086 My favorite Jim Valvano line was when in a game he asked a ref if he could get a technical foul for what he was thinking. The ref told him ‘NO’ and then Valvano said, “Good…because I think you suck.” Genius
So…Aaron Rodgers is the GM for the Jets…the QB of the Packers…and the owner of the Bears?
I have to admit that I assumed this was a clip of Jamari’s dunk at Texas…which was AWESOME
I was sitting in the front row of the student section for the '97 Mizzou game when Raef came flying right at us for that huge dunk. I was there from 94-98 when they were 58-0 at home. Such great memories. Wish I had known sooner that those games were on TV. I could’ve pointed myself out in the stands to my kids
@wissox and I will offer our scouting report on Wisconsin as we each follow both teams. Here we go:
On offense, Wisconsin is a system team only. They really are not looking to take guys off the dribble and rarely play freely. They want to touch the post on every possession and regularly play late into the shot clock. They don’t often take bad shots and they’ll make you defend for 30 seconds.
On defense, they play tough M2M at all times and will make you earn it. They don’t reach a ton, don’t often go for steals and aren’t super interested in getting out in transition. It’ll be a meat grinder game that they’ll try to muck up and play ugly.
PG–Chucky Hepburn is really the only perimeter player they have who will look to take you off the dribble. He’s had a REALLY slow start to his season offensively, especially from 3. He’s capable offensively and is their engine, but it’s been ugly so far because of his struggles. His backups (Lindsay and McGee) aren’t special. Lindsay can shoot the 3, but is a walkon turned scholarship player.
SG–Max Klesmit is a transfer from Wofford. Scrappy with a decent outside shot. Defends like his life depends on it. Will probably piss you off as a KU fan. Just a solid player. His backup (Essegian) is a freshman who can really shoot it. Looks like he’s 12 and doesn’t really defend, but is Wisconsin’s only player who I’d say is a scorer.
SF–Jordan Davis thinks he’s his twin brother (who just got drafted in the top 10) and is nothing close to a high major BB player. My opinion is that he got a scholarship in order for UW to get his brother. He’s really only a threat to score close to the basket but will shoot the ball freely…which you should root for. Good defender. His backup (Ilver) barely played before this year and he’s only a 3-point shooter. Not much athleticism.
PF–Tyler Wahl is their best player who would be at a place like Kansas if he could shoot outside of 10 feet. He does everything else well…rebounds, defends, passes, leads, ball handling…just isn’t much of an outside shooter. UW wants to get him the ball on the block, clear out, and let him try to back you down. He’ll then go over either shoulder with a jump hook…usually after a pump fake. He can switch 1-5 on D and plays super hard. His backup (Gilmore) is another walk-on turned scholly player who is very limited offensively, but plays hard and physical on D. I’d be shocked if he shot the ball on offense except off of offensive rebounds
C–Steven Crowl is a true 7-footer who can play with his back to the basket and shoot the three. Not very athletic and pretty robotic, but can hurt you inside and out. He’s getting better moving his feet, but he really struggles against length and athleticism. Another guy they’ll throw it into and let him try to back you down. His backup (Hodges) plays 5 minutes/game and is raw.
I can’t imagine this will be a pretty game. KU has WAY more talent and athleticism and should win with ease. That said, UW grinds you and if they get KU into a wrestling match it works to their advantage. I think UW keeps it close for 30 minutes and then KU has too much and wins 68-52
I live in Fort Collins and have seen a lot of CSU. The sad part of last night is that the national narrative is how sorry Virginia is, how they didn’t deserve to get in…and nothing about how CSU actually played pretty well. Under-seeded and with a chip on their shoulder. I wouldn’t be surprised if they beat Texas too.
Good showing last night. The opponent helped, but it was good to see a solid win. Pepi won’t score every game, but he seems to find himself in a position to score pretty often…more than we can say for Sargent, Pefok, et al. Musah brings another element to the team as well. Love the midfield of Musah/Adams/McKennie. The back 4 still are shaky, but I liked the performance.
@approxinfinity if you start a USMNT thread, I would participate. They need more than 5 points in this set of matches
Didn’t read thru all of the posts so might have already been mentioned but…
I just felt all warm inside when the score was 40-12
@approxinfinity First off…thanks for the heads up on the American Fiasco podcast. Listened to it in one sitting at work. Fascinating.
I agree on Dest. He is obviously skilled with the ball, but he turns it over a ton and he’s a defender who doesn’t defend. I’m not the most nuanced soccer fan, but I just don’t see it with him. He starts for Barca so what do I know? He and Robinson bring great skill/speed coming forward, but Robinson at least tries on D which seems like a bit more than Dest.
His aggressiveness on the glass is a good indicator for him. This last stretch has been great with how he’s scored, but I’ve loved how much he has helped to rebound.
Musah/McKennie/Adams in the midfield for the next 5-6 years? I’ll take that any day. Pulisic/Aaronsen/Reyna/Weah as options on the wing? I’ll take that too.
It’s so fun to beat Mexico
More loosely connected thoughts:
Gard doesn’t do handshake lines like Self. Self does a one hand shake for pretty much everyone when they go thru the line. Gard does the right hand shake with the left hand on the person’s shaking elbow or pat on the shoulder. He does it EVERY GAME. This is not new. He was simply doing what he does when Howard says an inflammatory statement and ignites the whole thing. So yes…he did touch Howard’s arm…just look at every other time he goes thru the line. If Gard gets suspended a game for stopping Howard in the line to have an adult conversation (think about that for a second)…then what does Howard get for STRIKING AN OPPOSING TEAM’S COACH? Seriously…if Gard gets a game like Jay Bilas, Seth Davis, Jay Williams and others say he should…what does Howard get? 10? 20? Fired?
Once the chaos starts and both teams are getting up in each other’s faces…is there time/capacity for a coach on either team to walk into the situation and evaluate who they should touch and who they shouldn’t? “Oh…you’re an opposing team player coming after one of my players…I’ll just trust that the other team’s coaches are going to handle this one and just touch people wearing the same color shirt as me.” “You’re wearing a blue shirt so I can’t touch you”. Please. Both sets of coaches (hopefully) are trying to clear players away from each other. Who knows what came out of who’s mouth (other than what clearly came out of Howard’s directed at Gard) during the scrum, but Michigan people put their hands on Wisconsin people too. There are reports of a different Wisconsin assistant (Sharif Chambliss…not the one who got punched) ending up on the ground in the middle of it. Hopefully no Wisconsin players or staff touched any Michigan people when trying to take care of him otherwise they might get suspended too.
Gard does have a history of violent touch against Howard where he might feel threatened so that needs to be taken into consideration: https://twitter.com/zachheilprin/status/1495598900002107393?s=12
Such fun to watch the USMNT thrash Mexico. Completely outclassed in every way…I’m not sure that I remember a game like that with Mexico before. I’m not a follower of Mexico’s team so they could be down or whatever…doesn’t matter. Loved it.
I loved the attacking style. Putting Reyna in the middle and pressing forward was such a pleasant gift to watch. Their second goal was a thing of beauty. Jedi to Turner to Dest to McKennie to Weah to Pulisic…gorgeous.
The red cards were unfortunate. McKennie’s was pretty questionable to me. He’s standing up for his guy who just got totally cheap shotted…gets surrounded by Mexican players right by their bench…to get a straight red there was ridiculous in my mind. Dest just simply can’t get caught up in the normal “we-fell-behind-let’s-just-play-cheap” Mexican tactic. I think they’ll plug in Scally and Luca De La Torre for those guys and only have a slight step back, but it would’ve been fun to watch them play with the same squad against Canada. Before the altercation, I think it might’ve been Dest’s best game for the USMNT.
Last night’s game actually presents a good ‘problem’ for them going forward. I wonder if they played the way they did last night because Tyler Adams wasn’t available. He’s clearly going to be on the field (and should be) when healthy, but when he’s playing that means one of Musah/McKennie/Reyna/Weah isn’t and they tend towards a more defensive posture. Makes me wonder if there might be situations where a more attacking style might work better against different teams which could lead to a consideration of playing a squad like last night with Adams off the bench once they get ahead? Sadly…with the re-appointment of Berhalter (who vastly prefers the defensive style) we may never know. If only for one night it was fun to watch…and at Mexico’s expense made it all the sweeter.
Playing San Diego St is basically wrestling camouflaged as basketball. So…pretty much like playing half of the Big 12
I think Brown can become a solid contributor at KU. I’m not enough of a football guy to know why a lineman might thrive in one type of blocking system vs another, but there are clear differences in style of offense at Kansas vs Wisconsin. Maybe a new home and a new system will bring the best out of him. Here’s to hoping…
If Storr rebounds and defends like he did at Wisconsin last year, it will be VERY interesting to see if Self will keep him in the game late over KJ.
@Woodrow Along with @wissox I also follow Wisconsin. Storr is an electric athlete and scored at a high clip this year. That said…he had more than questionable shot selection, plays exactly no defense, isn’t a good ball handler and shot over 50% in a game in 7 of 36 games. He would drive Bill Self absolutely crazy. As much as he helped Wisconsin at times this year, his offensive inefficiency really hurt them at time. And he completely no-showed in their tournament game. Pass for me
@justanotherfan This is the Packers situation except Hill wasn’t a free agent and Davante was. Now is where Mahomes/Rodgers need to earn their money by bringing less talented WR’s up a few levels instead of relying on a stud WR…although you could make the argument that in Kelce KC still has theirs.
Anyone else find themselves wondering what could’ve been with Jarrett Allen during the two KU/UT games? I don’t do that often, but for sure have with him.
Have we confirmed that our Bill Self/Dajuan Harris basher on this board isn’t actually Remy Martin?
And man…you think Shakur Juiston would be helping this team? Can’t help but wonder if he’d be a Jayhawk right now if Preston hadn’t been in the way of playing time.
I have two friends that are Iowa fans. Asked them about Moss and their two responses were:
“Let’s just say I’m not sad that he’s moving on.”
and
“If he’s KU’s best option as an add then they’re in trouble.”
Neither of my buddies are the bitter-type either. Not exactly a ringing endorsement if that’s all KU can add at this point grad transfer-wise.
@mayjay @JayHawkFanToo @dylans…and all…thanks for your thoughts. As has been pointed out in every thread touching on the subject…it’s just a ridiculous mess.
So does KU/SDS end up here while others don’t simply because the Adidas trial went first and before the season while the Nike/UA teams get one more year to ride it out because their trials are after the season?
I can’t believe that he only got one game…or that there wasn’t any sort of scrum afterwards. That was so dirty
Cassius Winston stays at MSU. They’ll probably be a deserving preseason #1
@BeddieKU23 re: Joe Touissant. Everybody needs to be ready for a full-blown flop-a-thon with him. Plays ‘tough’ and ‘hard-nosed’ and then falls down with a slight breeze. Just fair warning
Garrett’s 3 from the corner last night was the biggest shot of the game too. Doolittle hit a 3 to get it down to 4 and then Garrett’s shot started a 15-2 or so run that put it away.
@Kcmatt7…first off…congratulations. Second…I’m so sorry that you guys even need to think about this. A brutal situation to be in.
To answer your question directly…I’d go and be okay. I imagine that you’ll have a lot of masks if you have it then and we aren’t in the clear. Late July is also a time when it actually could be feasible as COVID might be gone/down because of weather.
I’m actually supposed to officiate three weddings this summer and all three are asking the same questions. As I’ve processed with them, it is clear that this isn’t the dream so I just feel sad for you guys. At the end of the day…if it’s all the same to you…I’d agree to whatever my wife-to-be wanted.
I will never grow weary of seeing that Jacque Vaughn spin move thru the lane against UCLA. I was in the front row and he came right at me. That was the loudest I ever heard the Fieldhouse. What was your loudest moment in AF?
@approxinfinity It for sure wasn’t pretty, but it’ll be fun to watch them in the World Cup again. It would be REALLY fun to see what this team could do if all fully healthy at the same time…and then could be even more so four years from now when the best players are in their prime
I split YouTubeTV with my in-laws (who live in town and only use one of the three available devices…leaving two for us) and pay for ESPN+. Works out to be about $470/yr so just south of $40/month. That works for now
No complaints about the draw. They’ll need to play well in all three games to advance…like the World Cup should be. Drawing a potential Group A 2nd round match isn’t a bad potential gig either. Can’t wait for November!
@BeddieKU23 @Jethro Apparently Penny didn’t REALLY want all the smoke https://www.fox13memphis.com/top-stories/-we-want-all-the-smoke-penny-hardaway-embracing-expectations-after-landing-top-recruiting-class/951247310/
I’m in Mexico on vacation right now. I’ve asked a few locals if they remember what happened 20 years ago today in world soccer. Then I reminded them of the fat ‘Dos a Cero’ the US laid on Mexico in the round of 16 in World Cup '02. They didn’t seem particularly interested in remembering…but I sure remember.