Jamari came out at halftime and immediately drew fouls on them in consecutive plays. Traylor was not the problem this game.
The real problems were the 3 and 5 positions as usual. Selden simply hasn’t developed. His ball skills are exactly the same as when he came in.
The Spartans have established a blueprint on how to beat us, in my opinion. Helps that Valentine had a career night and Mason looked injured/tired. It’s a loss; we move on. And yes, we need Diallo badly.
Ugh. Debating about whether to renew my cable package. Some questionable calls all night, particularly with the Winslow tip that completely shifted the momentum of the game.
I will never say that Duke didn’t earn it, but it will stay in my memory as a tainted tournament this year. There were some really atrociously-called games in this year’s tourney, and it really sours the final product. Furthermore, the benefits of using my time this poorly (for enjoying sports) are diminishing in a critical period of my life (early fatherhood).
Sometimes, you just have to smile and walk away.
I specifically disagree with you, jaybate, on the Selden versus Graham point for the last game.
I also disagree with the guys on 610 sports regarding the overreaction of some fans. The overreaction is explainable in that we’ve seen this before. It’s the same as last season with no rim protection and no offensive development or creativity. It’s like watching the Chiefs throw screen passes over and over and over again. With the exception of the Trent Green era, we’d been throwing screen passes in most years going back to the Montana era.
Some of us, like me, are beginning to wonder if at least SOME of it is the coaching. After all, there’s very little jerky jerky or creativity. Everyone’s just going through the motions thinking that this will work, just like in practice. This is why Wayne and Perry always get stuffed. Ever watch our guards pass it around the perimeter? Like there’s absolutely no threat to shoot or dribble. We telegraph everything we do and it makes you wonder if they feel the pressure from the coach to execute the play at all costs regardless of the situation.
This is going to be an interesting year because we have an elite scorer in Dawson and and an elite defender in Garrett. Probably would need some advanced stats to back that up, but that is my observation for now. This is the first elite defender I can remember us having in a while.
The thing about Garrett versus Grimes is that I often see Garrett make secondary assists or secondary steals, much more than I’ve seen from Grimes. If Grimes isn’t shooting well, which seems to be common, then Garrett is far and away better statistically.
Yes, we need Grimes to shoot well and yes we need shooters. But would I take a shooter over Garrett’s play right now? Probably not. Too many intangibles like the assist at 5 minutes left to go against Nova, numerous forced turnovers, and good box outs. It’s hard to take out a guy who directly or indirectly leads to 5-7 turnovers for the other team.
Best part of tonight’s game for me was Lagerald Vick’s steals. Real legitimate steals, one being a run-out. Do we finally have a full set of perimeter players who can create steals?
Graham is no Mason when it comes to end of clock creation.
My position is that Garrett is the better defender, passer and dribbler. Garrett deserves more trust come tourney time. Still, we need Vick, obviously.
I just want to say, Malik’s ascension was inevitable if you look at the intangibles of the past couple of months or so. Vick though really came through and we can’t thank him enough. Well we could thank him more if we win a championship. How do we do that, by the way?
I didn’t think this was a bad loss at all. WVU played pretty good defense. They defended the point well, especially at the end, and we had no answer. What gives me hope is our defensive play, which is keeping us in nearly every game. The defense is consistently good, and defense can get you far in March. I hope the team hurts. No pain, no gain. But I’m ok.
This team always had problems at the 5 position. We knew it going into the year. I took a look at Cliff Alexander and thought “Ok, he’s 6’9”. Decent wingspan. No dribble. Clunky feet." Not sure why anybody expected much different from year 1. We were always going to be better defensively playing small and quick.
@DoubleDD said:
No the Big 12 doesn’t have two blue bloods to stake it’s claim, and the Big 12 hasn’t shown their best in the tournament. However from top to bottom and a round robin schedule it’s hard to be tougher than the Big 12. All you have to do is look at how bruised and battered the Champion is to see how brutal the Big 12 can be. Every week of conference play is like rivalry week for KU.
Have to agree with this. This year, if you wanted to watch a good Big 12 game on a given day, all you had to do was tune in to ESPN.
Biggest frustration:
Players are not developing enough. Our bigs, Wayne, Greene (although he’s much better this year).
I will be very interested to see who improves the most next year. My guess is it will be between Graham and Greene.
When you have poor ball skills, people can scout you and go hard at your tendencies. I think that’s what happened today with players like Oubre, Traylor, Ellis, Lucas. The ONLY reason we were in the game today was because of our guard play.
Not sure what to say about Wayne Selden. I just hope Graham, Greene and Svi make sure to beat on him in practice. I’d rather he not see the floor than give us the usual reasons for benching him.
EDIT: We would never say that Frank Mason didn’t develop. It makes you wonder if it’s an issue with the players themselves rather than the coaching.
Maybe we can get some open shots if our guards not named Graham or Mason learned to dribble. Or maybe our bigs can learn to pass a little better to achieve the same effect.
Traylor was NOT the problem in this game. Frank and Devonte had poor games, and the wing position was dreadful as usual. Valentine is everything we wish Selden would have been.
@HawksWin I think one of the things we have learned is that D1 has far better ball handling than WUG. This is why Selden could succeed abroad but looks like a different player here. It’s the competition. It’s why he always tries to drive to the basket in the same way.
Other observations: -Landen Lucas missed at least 3 point blank shots. -Frank Mason looked super duper tired. Are we preparing him for injury?
Can we put this debate to rest now? Do you see why Diallo is the easy choice over Davis?
@JRyman Totally agreed. HEM’s constant harping on Traylor (a player who legitimately won us games last year) is completely unbecoming of his/her username. It makes it hard to take some of HEM’s other analysis seriously. Wasting time on this negativity especially at this point in the season is a waste of life.
@Hawk8086 We know that about Graham and Mason, who unfortunately are already relied upon for ball handling and lot s of defensive pressure. And anyone else is a question mark, including Svi.
I hope our defense improves most of all. That way we don’t have to rely on the three when March comes around and you play two in three days.
Bragg was making a contribution to this win before the injury. His passing ability came back for one.
I think we still get in the Sweet 16 somehow. This team is still better than the Wiggins squad. I don’t think we’d lose to Stanford. ASU and TT are Elite 8 capable teams. We’ve probably improved since losing to Washington.
But they need to focus. Say no to other things, yes to sleep.
Most likely we will lose at some point in the tourney. The question is how.
Last year it was inferiority to a lengthier and more athletic team (we were the 3rd best team after Oregon IMO). The year prior, we were jobbed at the end of the game by the referees (but ended up losing to the champions). 2015 was a year where Duke was gifted the title game with the ultimate friendly whistle against Wisconsin, who got totally screwed in the last game.
I have been somewhat pessimistic about the tournament since 2015. I think we may lose to a team that plays zone like Texas did the last game.
To me, that’s the question. How are we going to lose?
Frankly, I think Garrett has good enough handles that he can attack closer towards the rim. Have Svi sweep by the paint area. 3 or four players driving in to attack the rim.
We won’t have to goes as fast as we think we have to. We can beat teams like Oklahoma State, who are fast, but we need to play more accurately. On defense, we need to continue to have on overarching goal: to make things difficult for the other team. When we play great offense we wear other teams down defensively. You demoralize. You impose your will. Everything should be in the service of that. This is why Kansas has been creating havoc at times on defense. We can chip away at their will.
Speed alone is not always the answer. Against fast teams like Oklahoma State, we need to be more accurate than speedy. Ideally, both, but turnovers will kill us. We need to beat them with endurance not speed. And with accuracy over athleticism.
Not sure how they can dominate us. With shooting? I think we can wear these guys down with running. Even Penn got wore down by us, and they were coached to perfection. Be patient on offense, but don’t be afraid to make them run.
We all knew that this was a year we could lose bad like this. Also, USC seems majorly under seeded…
TCU is not the worst team in the league by a long shot.
We won this game because of open looks caused by penetration. With what our guards can do, we can cause damage in multiple ways. Watch the game again. Graham and Mason are stars.
@Bwag Good point. But we played HORRIBAD and still managed to come back.
It wasn’t like the ISU game, where they played essentially perfect basketball in the second half. We played ugly, ugly basketball with our backups and still came through against great 3 point shooting.
@Crimsonorblue22 Funny. I saw that play, thinking Oubre just doesn’t have his head right for this. Of course, neither did Traylor, Ellis, or Selden. We needed someone to show up aside from Mason and Graham, and nobody did.
@Bwag Offensive production isn’t everything. It’s about overall effectiveness.
Wayne Selden played 27 minutes had 12 points, but made 25% of his shots and had only 1 rebound. His counterpart Valentine had 12 rebounds. Traylor played 19 minutes and was fairly efficient except for some fouls. I don’t get it. Yes, we could have played Mickelson over Traylor, but we also could have played Mickelson over Lucas, who had 2 points in 14 minutes in 1 of 5 shooting. All of those misses should have been makes, by the way.
Diallo over Davis always. We should be able to get guys like Davis every year.
Diallo is a special talent though, and I think people will see why pretty soon. They will ease him in, but he will still be an obvious contributor right from the very beginning, IMO.
@drgnslayr Good pointing out ralster’s comment. As much as I harp on Selden, there is no doubt that his teammates love him. I just never thought of him leading by example. It seems like he’s finally, finally starting to do that consistently over the course of multiple games. I loved that play he created in the post for Mickelson. The old Wayne would have never done that. I love the fast break he had a few games ago where he slowed down just enough to get control and make the right decision. Everyone who plays FIFA for the first time loves the turbo button because it makes you go fast, but you lose the ball to the defense every time. HERKY JERKY. It’s IMPORTANT to be unpredictable. I think for the past 3 years, I’ve witnessed Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden make the same moves over and over again expecting the same positive result. Finally, it seems like they have changed their games to be more reactive and situational. What does this have to do with Greene?
Well, the first notable Greene had this season was a guy literally dribbling right by him to score on one of the wings. It was like seeing him Freshman year all over again. But aside from this, Greene has improved in almost every area. He’s got a little herky jerky in him. So what’s the problem?
Well, it’s the leadership question. Why does everyone on the team love Wayne Selden? It’s something Greene must ask himself, but maybe we can help him here. 1) Selden rarely talks about his “ability” or how scoring is “what he does”. Greene has said this kind of stuff in interviews, and it’s like watching Josh Selby all over again. 2) Wayne Selden wants all of his teammates to succeed. Greene evidently believes he needs to voice that he should play over others (publicly?) Selden is always at the center of celebrations on the sidelines. It’s because he’s genuinely happy. You can feel it.
Love and cohesiveness are too important to the team. More important than another three point shooter. I think it’s time for Greene to take a hard look at himself and what he’s trying to prove. If you’re trying to enter the NBA as a marginal player, you need to have those intangibles, those leadership skills that they look for, and here is where Greene could learn a thing or two from Wayne. Because the pros pay very close attention to this stuff. Do you make the team better or worse with your presence?
Another poster put it best: the 2010-11 team was “full of hubris”. Definitely one of my least favorite KU teams.
I do like this team, but I am not in love. Im not sold yet. The team this year worries me on defense. Our guards are great. Graham needs rest, but he’s the only guy who can consistently create steals. Mason is pretty solid as well. But the 3, 4, 5 positions are worrying.
Greene I like, but only if we keep him on the interior bodied up with some guys. Against quick guards, I’d prefer not to have him running around screens. Use him as a big 3 or even a small 4 against shorter quicker lineups.
Traylor, as he showed against SDSU is perfect against shorter lineups. As much as some posters around here like to dog on Traylor (even as they refuse that they’re doing so), they still admit that he shows up when needed. Gee, isn’t that what you want your players to do? Competent backups are important.
Perry Ellis gets all the love, and no doubt I appreciate his scoring, but he sometimes hurts the team in ways that are completely ignored. I remember a play where Ellis left a wide open Greene for a poor shot, and the issue hit home for me: Perry Ellis can be a bad teammate. He doesn’t pass or defend well. And then when the shots aren’t falling, he mopes around with his head hanging low. Why has Self let Perry Ellis get away with this behavior for 4 years? Jaybate was right in how it was a mistake not to have enough internal competition for Ellis early in his career.
Wayne Selden, like Perry Ellis, has made great strides in the offseason, but he also has the negative trait of relying on his offense to give him confidence. Wayne played like a boneheaded freshman in that first half against SDSU. As much as I’d like to say he got over the hump, I still don’t feel comfortable trusting Wayne Selden.
As far as the rest of the lineup goes, I trust each of them will find ways to contribute. The 5 position is what it is. I can only hope that Hunter (our only true big) will be ready by March. Bragg I have faith in. Diallo I pray for.
Free throws will be our downfall come March.
Who knows why we aren’t going with fresh legs. Is it designed that way?
@bskeet The main thing is that teams like OU and ISU love to submarine people. Like Jamari, Embiid, etc.
Complaints:
Josh Jackson needs to do more Marcus Peters-like things before he acts like Marcus Peters.
Vick still can’t shoot until he proves me otherwise.
Lucas still will inevitably get stripped in an open-goal situation.
@Eric-san It makes a heck of a lot more sense to hypothetically put Graham with the old Wiggins squad rather than Wiggins with the current group. But supposing that happens, who would get more minutes, Wiggins or Jackson?
Take a look at the clips in this Jessie Newell article, and I think the answer is clear: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article116605513.html
The prophesy is true.
When BMac was at KU, we had:
EJ, BMac, Releford, Young, Withey.
Now it’s:
Graham, Mason, Vick, Jackson, Doke.
Perhaps too difficult to compare because of squad discrepancy. This year’s squad is superior at ball handling and offensive ability for basically every single position. Defensively, Vick seems like he could make more of an impact. Also, he may have better intangibles. But we don’t really know yet until we see more competition.
BMac’s averages: 15.9 ppg 5.2 rpg 2.0 apg 1.0 spg 0.7 bpg
I can see Vick equaling BMac’s points on a per-minute rate basis while equaling him in the other categories (including turnovers).
We are not a championship squad until Svi, Vick and Bragg play better.
What happens if Lucas fouls out? We are totally screwed.
Also, anyone have the dark thought that we will lose a tourney game due to poor FT shooting?
This could be a preview of how we lose in March. Two athletic guards to match up with ours (but who can actually play defense), and solid 4/5 player.
Until Vick, Svi or Bragg actually shows up to win us a game, I’m skeptical of us doing anything. Everyone rotation player from that 2012 squad won us a game. Kevin Young, Releford. Everyone.
21 turnovers. We didn’t play defense this game. We got defended.
Amazing win. We showed some championship type defense in this game. Frank won it at the line.
Positives: Aside from the usual dudes, Vick seemed to have a quality game with some good plays. Bad plays were counteracted with scoring.
Negatives: Landen Lucas was 2-7 from the line. Missed bunnies. Bragg joins Lucas in that respect. 1 rebound and 5 fouls in 18 minutes of play. And your demeanor was awful. Hubris killed many a talent.
I love this win, but I wonder what kind of blood sacrifice Bill Self had to perform. Have we burned all of our March luck early?
Oregon played good defense on us. Thats why they won. We spent so much energy on defense in the second half without figuring out how to perform on the offensive front.
I miss having a shot-blocking big.
They look like a team that will win a championship.
Too much futzing around by KU. This loss wasn’t as bad as the VCU loss because aside from seeding, we weren’t THAT full of hubris.
That Jackson tip to the Oregon player at the end was when the game ended. Really wish Jackson had showed up tonight. The truth is he and Graham needed to be their absolute best tonight.
@BigBad Anybody who thinks length wasn’t a big factor wasn’t paying attention last night. They had big guards that shot over us with confidence.
What this shows to me is how much we were really screwed out of a Final Four appearance last year. Calling Graham for the foul late in the game was one of the worst pieces of officiating I can ever recall. We may have lost in the championship to NC last year, but I’m confident we would have made the championship game. Had we been allowed to finish that game and win it, our E8 record looks a lot better.
This year, we were beat by a super hot and more talented team that played defense against us the right way.
We should all keep in mind that E8 is still “elite”, and I think we can be somewhat satisfied with our performance his year.
I know people like the happy-go-lucky Bragg. But that’s not what anyone needs. Look at Frank Mason. How often does he smile? Sometimes a little seriousness and self-criticism is necessary to getting better.
@kjayhawks said:
I think DG stays, he’s very close to Newman.
I saw Newman and Graham out shopping together. I als so Vick at the same mall. I wonder if they were all just trying to keep their minds off the tourney.
Amazing how some players develop and some don’t. Mason comes to mind. Nick Bradford an older example.
The brain is a powerful muscle.
Garrett is a defensive revelation. Relefordation.
That looked like fantastic defense. Even Svi had some moments in the 2nd half.
The whole team had its moments. Newman impressed me at the end with his possessionS of the ball. Mitch had energy and was often in just the right spots. Svi bounced back in a huge way. Devonte was great, of course, but if someone takes him out of the game defensively, I have more confidence that the rest of our team can make up the slack. Vick can’t yet shoot off the dribble, but he’s learning to play within himself and become more possession-oriented.
I forgot about Billy once I saw DeSousa play. He addresses team need right now. Good luck to Billy.