@HighEliteMajor Great post and great read HEM, I posted about Lucas in the game thread, because I just can’t understand why HCBS can’t see what’s so obvious ? He has Mickelson who can do a little of everything as well as Lucas’s only strength rebounding.
If you were HCBS would any of you go with Lucas over Mickelson ? I will never understand why HCBS does not play Mickelson more. He’s bigger has better hands and has better overall post skills than Lucas.
@BeddieKU23 Well I guess when you put it that way lol… my thought process was bring in graham off the bench, and start mason, seldon, Ellis, then any combo you like up front. I like Mickelson and Bragg right now. These are just thoughts I’ve had about where Ellis could help us the most because against length, he has struggled. I’m guessing the problem for him at the 3 would be can he keep a slasher type 3 in front of him ?
I agree we do have some really solid depth, but did I miss the ELLIS part of different player rotations in your post ? I think we should move perry over to the 3. He has struggled his whole career at KU vs taller players.
Ok I did some googling and did they pull his scholarship ? If they took that from him that’s pretty low of Michigan.
@Statmachine What’s the story with Austin Hatch?
@RockkChalkk Right, I don’t why I was thinking he was a PG
I think it would be helpful if our coaches/recruiters quit losing out on talent that’s right in our area. Otto porter, buddy heild, WC stein, olajeie? etc etc. I know I’ve missed a few but this constant chasing of FOOLS GOLD is getting old. Ok so duke won it all last year, that doesn’t prove the OAD way is the best way. They had plenty of upperclassmen and a senior PG quin cook, Jefferson, a mason or Plumlee plus another player or two. We are recruiting like we need to go after all the top 10-15 guys, and it doesn’t seem to be the best way to go about getting the best TEAM on the floor. I’m sure we will keep trying to land these players but it’s so shortsighted and has produced zero in the tournament. Ive wrote it in other threads enough times, this team will be fine and is loaded with talent for next year.
I would doubt that cannibis is a problem with a CBB Players game IQ.
@jaybate-1.0 I think at 6-9 Bragg could potentially be getting about half the minutes at the 4, with Jamari and possibly SVI? He’s 6-8 he could hang with a bit more mass. Also saying that we have to get a 5 is probably true, but we could make it another year without that main shot blocker in the middle. Lucas will be a junior and Michelson will be a senior and maybe I’m in the minority but those two have the size and skills to handle the post. What little we saw of HM, he sure played well when he was given the chance. With Lucas he was a project, and this being his 4th year in the program it just seems impossible he can’t be coached up and improved. Anyways I could go on and on but those are some of my thoughts for the front court. Thanks for all the info jaybate1.0 and all the the other posters I’ve sure learned a lot. I wasn’t even aware of these shoe company wars in the recruitment process:
I think at this point we should be glad we landed a solid player like Carlton Bragg. Anything past this recruit to me seems unlikely. Like I’ve said before this OAD is the real fools gold to me. It’s short sighted and has produced very little for HCBS and all Jayhawks fans. I stand by the statement that if oubre or Alexander wouldn’t have come to Kansas we would have been just as good as we were last year. I can’t wait for next year and hope with Bragg, and all the recruits HERE they get their chance to improve and excell like so many other less heralded Jayhawk recruits have.
@ParisHawk he wasn’t recruited as a OAD, I remember him being described as very new to the game, and raw, a project player.
I know that we have taken this OAD approach, but at this point wouldn’t it be better to just shut it down and start working towards next year, and the year afters recruits ? HCBS is putting so much time and resources towards players that at best help us in a game or two. I think if we didn’t have Alexander or oubre last year we would have had the exact same outcome. This current KANSAS roster is already loaded with guys that want to be here, and have been in the program several years. Why not focus on them and their development as opposed to recruiting over mason or Greene or Svi and a few more. That is the reason we lost Conor F, and it sucks because he wanted to be here and would have been a solid 4 year guy like perry. The only reason Traylor or Lucas or Michelson are even here is because we swung and missed on so many OADs. I am really looking forward to this ridiculous OAD rule to be over. It just comes with so many unintended consequences, and has ruined more than a few guys that could have been so much better at the next level.
@drgnslayr Ya me too on the baseline prowling, it’s usually good for at least one good alley oop a game, plus wide open shots on the baseline. I remember whenever someone ran a zone on us when the Morris twins were here they would run the baseline and just made them pay!! I still love it when I see a zone vs Kansas because we usually have success as soon as we get a few possessions to see what exactly our opp is doing.
Also I wonder why one of our best post man to ever play at Kansas like Wayne Simien doesn’t start coaching like manning ? His play in the post was outstanding and he had that back to the basket turn around fadeaway that rivaled collision or raef. Maybe we need to upgrade at the bigs coaching. Just a thought ?
@drgnslayr Your right about the hi lo changes, and it didn’t click tell you wrote that. I was watching Kansas at Texas on YouTube, which to me was this teams high water mark and cliff or perry were either running the baseline or at the top of the paint. Texas was running a zone if I remember correctly so that style of attack would be what I would expect. But against man to man that didn’t work quite as well, especially when we did get to the rim, except when the the 3s were dropping. I also watched the 2012 team and they were a great defensive team but they also moved the ball like I have not seen in a while and the passes into either or Robinson or Whitney were incredibly efficient. We need to get back to that but like you said Ellis and company are not the best players to push the center out and be in a position to catch and turn for the easy lay up or monster jam. Hopefully it all returns next year with a true shot blocker like Whithey, and a post man that can handle anyone in the paint and finish at the rim.
That would be some outstanding news if it happens. We really do need a solid big to run HCBS system. Thanks to another member here who explained all the offenses on another thread. The hi lo went from what are we doing with this system ? to oh I see its an easy system to learn and run. Maybe some KU teams more than others, but with the guards we have and the potential guards we may get this could be the final piece. Then we would be in great position to make a legit run for 12, and another final 4 run. Thanks for the info.
I think we lost 7 players from the 08 team and we barely skipped a beat. Luckily we had Aldrich and Collins ready to take the team over and keep the continuity. It should be interesting to see how UK does next year with that much turnover.
Thanks for the replies, every year their is a game at the sprint center and I will make an effort to go. I want to love the NBA like I do CBB so I will try and invest some time in watching again. It’s the exact opposite with football for me, although my interest in the NFL is slowly going away. So would the NBA fans on this board want CBB to be more like the NBA, or is that even possible? To me CBB just needs a few tweaks, but not a complete overhaul like they tried last year.
Maybe I am in the minority here but I think that college basketball is more exciting than the NBA. I have tried in the past few years to watch a couple games but they didn’t come close to the excitement of almost any Top 50 college teams playing, especially in the conference. The tournament this year had a lot of great games, I can’t imagine any basketball fan would watch and say this is lame. Do all of you love the NBA, or is this board mostly college basketball fans ? What am I missing with the NBA, could any NBA fans tell me who would be a good team to watch, or has a different style than the next team? That seems to be the big difference for me, all the teams do the exact same thing. Is my perception wrong ?
Judging by the NCAAs past id say cliff might be into his mid twenties before they get an answer. This seems like such a simple case, did a family member take a loan against cliffs future earnings. If so then he’s done, as I understand the rules.
The question I’m wondering is what is CLIFF waiting for ? From all the info I’ve gathered he is done at the collegiate level. So he’s just holding up a scholarship, and is possibly causing some recruits to wait and see what happens. What does anyone else think the reason was cliff struggled in the post so much ? Was it because of HCBS offense/defense or was he way overrated by scouts ? Just like josh Selby, Alexander will always be to me a guy who could and should have done so much more at Kansas.
How could they not interview charmers and Collins ? That was easily the greatest clutch shot ever seen in a NT game !!! And 97, oh man I had to go outside and collect myself for at least 30 minutes. That was agony on a sports level I’ve never come close too since. The VCU game was also high up there because we had no business losing that game. All of it is why I love this tournament and college basketball so much.
I have been thinking about next years team since we lost alexander. I think many of us could see that was going to be a problem that affected this team on and off the court. I couldn’t understand why cliff was even allowed on the bench, especially when it was pretty clear after a week or two this wasn’t going to end well for cliff, or the team as a whole. Here’s my thoughts on next years team, if we only lose alex and oubre and only gain PF C Bragg then this team would still be a top 25 team and maybe even better. I’m sure SELDON and Greene and SVI who are all top 20 recruits and are still here and ready to move forward. They all are extremely talented but like white, Lucas and frankamp they have all been recruited over. That has to slow TEAM cohesion and chemistry. I think if Lucas was the starting C and bragg as PF then move ellis to the 3 and start Mason and seldon we have a solid veteran 4, with a possible OAD. Then off the bench Greene could fill the 2-3 or even the 4 when we need to go small this team could be really good if not great. The pressure would be lifted a bit on those guys and the quick hook might not be so fast, plus the player progression by the time conference started might have us in a position to have the best TEAM we’ve had in a couple years. I know it’s too late but easing up the non con, and maybe simplifying the offense would also help with the young guys and benefit us well. I have not seen any data minus the better seeding that says that this hard if a schedule does us any good except for exposure. This years team never really gelled and couldn’t run consistent offense, it actually got worse and worse, and it makes sense our team was physically and mentally drained by the time March started. Maybe next year won’t be the most flashy team but maybe the guys that are still here will have a chance to really take us to the next level in March. Sorry for the long post, but I’ve felt I needed to give my take after reading all the outstanding commentary all year about our team from such a smart group of hardcore fans. Thanks to the admins for all your hardwork on this site, it’s now my go to place for all my KU basketball info. James Dehoff
Wichita state is exactly the kind of team we should be playing in nov/December on a neutral court… We also need to maybe dial the SOS back a bit, the conference is a serious grind, so making the non con a grind just seems to only wear our guys down mentally, and by March physically. Other than securing us a high seed what purpose does playing such a hard schedule serve ? I don’t think it helps OAD freshman, and it just makes it hard for the team to gel and gain confidence. The champions Classic and a tournament should be a tough enough challenge in this OAD era.
This was great year and for supposedly being “down year” we won the big 12 again, and had some great moments. We need to just schedule wichita state, I don’t get why we don’t play them. I think that gave them an edge in this game. Well on the bright side At least we didn’t finish the year losing to bob Morris, on Tuesday night in NIT. There’s always next year !!!
@wissoxfan83 ya I vented about his last night in the bad ball strikes again thread I think it was called. We played solid ball movement offense and then tanked the game trying to just drive head down and stupid passes in the paint with the whole cryiowa state team waiting. The fools gold comment was so unnecessary and killed at the least greenes confidence. It will be hard to bring that offense back because now we have this new an terribly boring foul fest because of the percentages. He could have just emphasized the importance of a low post game and left the guys that we’re sizzling beyond the arc alone. Oh well too bad maybe it will make a comeback just in time. I miss that 2012 Taylor/Robinson/young/whithey/relaford team. OAD are killing basketball as a TEAM game.
It’s so frustrating to watch this team, I am at a loss as to find any silver lining. When you watch them play so well, and build a solid lead, then this happens, and it’s all too often. Sometimes we hold on but that’s just not how basketball should be played. You shouldnt get a lead then play prevent offense the rest of the game. Driving to rim with your head down is not a consistent winning formula. It’s like even HCBS knew walking into half that his team could not keep their solid play going.
I think KU fans have become used to watching a consistently good TEAM, so having to rely on just talent, and not as much team is different for most fans. We all are not spoiled we just know what good basketball looks like and this and last years team lacks that a bit. KU has some incredible talent but when your relying on putting your head down and driving to the rim, it gets ugly and its a free throw fest vs a smooth well run offense. I think It’s just an effect of the little time HCBS HAS with the the OAD that’s pushing us to use this style of ball, which is effective but ugly. I do believe we should have a much better core of veterans next year and we will return to playing good consistent offense making FG and not so many free throws.
@betterfireE seemed like we were forming an identity and then HCBS decided he didn’t like the direction I guess. Ever since he made the “fools gold” comment we have just been lost as a team.
@Blown I agree I wanted to turn this one off, I just refused to believe we wouldn’t grind this one out and win it some how. I don’t know what to make of this West Virginia team ? They seem terrible but their depth and full court press is brutal.
Great post and you make some great points. I’ve been thinking maybe HCBS has been purposely making us run our offense thru the post before anyone even thinks about a 3. Kind of an over correction to relying on the 3 for wins ? Hopefully when the tourney starts HCBS will open the offense up a bit and it starts raining threes again !!!
@JhawkAlum That was funny to me too, jays outrage didn’t match anything we were looking at on the tv. I guess at best Mason fouled him but that would have been a BS call.
I’ve watched the drive by Taylor over and over and Jay Billas goes crazy like Taylor was tackled. Taylor was slightly touched before he started his dive but nowhere near what jay was describing. If he was fouled who fouled him ?
@konkeyDong Thanks for the info, I had no clue how he was at Arkansas other than he was a great shot blocker. I assumed he would come in and be at the least a little bit like Jeff whithey.
well I’m surprised he hasn’t got one in Lawrence yet 
he was here all last year learning the system and is a proven shot blocker which we are desperate for and still can’t get on the floor. I just don’t get it he hasn’t looked bad when he’s played.
Seriously what was the point of him transferring here and then never getting to play ? He would have been much better off going to Wichita st.
@nuleafjhawk said:
I’ve got to admit I’ve always been somewhat baffled by the Perry haters (or at least dis-likers). It’s almost as though because he doesn’t beat his chest or do back flips at center court, he’s less worthy. You old timers think of your favorite players from 20, 30, 40 years ago - Perry’s probably put up better numbers than a lot of them. And he’s got one more year to go. He could be more aggressive, but so could …oh, everyone else on this team.
Fifteen years from now we will remember Perry Ellis.
Agreed perry Ellis has to be the most underrated player we’ve ever had as a starter. That second half vs West Virginia was probably the most impressed I’ve ever been watching him play. He couldn’t miss !! I guess I’m different than most, because when he missed that game winner all I thought was what an outstanding effort and hustle play DAMN. . Sometimes they drop, sometimes they don’t, that was about as high pressure of a shot during a conference season as Marios miracle shot. This time it just didn’t drop I have a feeling he will get that back when it matters in March.