Haith to Tulsa?
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@VailHawk I’m sorry but your story lost me when you said MU Alum, I thought those were mythical like the loch Ness Monster, the Yeti, and Bigfoot.
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I don’t believe you were polite to Norm for a second, Vail. Laird Noller? Of course. But, Norm and an MU alum? No way. Its not in you.
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@drgnslayr LOL, now you’ve got me picturing Self leading the rest of the coaching staff on a panty raid through a Mizzou sorority, then stealing their tiger mascot before speeding away in an Escalade. As they peel out, they’re chased by a bunch of security guards, and Jerrance Howard moons them through the back window.
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@Virgil_Caine " a panty raid through a Mizzou sorority,"
Really?
What is Self going to do with a bunch of soiled burlap?
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Actually, MU got a gift from heaven when Haith left. I had hear rumors that his days at MU were numbered and he was going to be let go and MU was working on finding potential replacements. Haith leaving gave him a face saving option and not only saved MU a ton of money because they will not have to buy out his contract, Haith will actually have to pay MU to buy his contract out.
On a separate note, when Norm was “honored” at KU after he retired he was give a rocking chair at halftime and I was the person that started the started the “sit down Norm” chant at the time…my claim to fame at AFH. By the way, the game was the KU-Texas game when Collison went crazy, scored 24 points, grabbed 23 rebounds and got a standing ovation from Dick Vitale when he fouled out; best college game I have ever watched live. All in all, a memorable night.
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@nuleafjhawk It’s purely for research purposes…all the stolen undergarments will be donated to the science department for lab experiments. See, the athletic department DOES care about academics!
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Mizzholes
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I am still privately (now publicly…) furious with myself for not extending the dvr recording length for the final KU/Mizzou game, where TRob and Tyshawn took it to overtime. It did NOT record the final FTs of Tyshawn where he tied the game, and then when he won it. Also, mostly, I wanted Bill Self’s roundhouse fist spike-thing he did, and he stormed off down the “handshake line” and didnt even stop or look at Frank Haith!! Never ever have I seen Self do that before or since, even towards coaches he cares little for such as Travis Ford or Scot Drew. Obviously, I think his strong feelings are more towards UMizzou than towards Haith personally. But wow.
I even called KU athletics to see if they would/could legally sell me a copy of that game on DVD. I told them that while KU rightly does not sell DVDs of conference games like KSU, that this particular game could be a mktg boon for them, under the easy heading of “Final BorderWar Game”–but KU athletics was not able to sell me such. Maybe CBS or whatever network carried the game also has ‘rights’. Would discuss terms if anyone wants to “trade” a copy of such dvd for: ? (TBD) ?
RCJH
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@ralster Let me know if you find a copy of that game, mine was the same way, didn’t extend the time and wasn’t home to do it either. Was at the bar yelling at Nebraska fans that took MisLose’s side.
I had the last laugh and walked out of said bar ala Bill Self style pumping my fist and shouting rock chalk jayhawk.
I had to leave I was the only KU fan there, my friends thought the crowd was going to kill me.
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@ralster Best I can do for you Ralster. The 2 free throws, fist pump and 4 mins. of celebrations.
This is the entire OT with all commercials edited out:
That PRE GAME INTRO IS GREAT:
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This post is deleted!
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I was fortunate enough to be at that game, and that was BY FAR the most intense game I’ve ever seen in the Phog. Even the old folks were jumping up and down and screaming at the top of their lungs…maybe even more than the students, since they’ve hated Missouri much longer! I shudder thinking about how awful the vibe in that building would have been had we lost.
That team, man…that team. Nobody bothered to tell them that it was a rebuilding year, and teams that play Conner Teahan as a sixth man have no business making the Final Four. So much fun!
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@RockChalkinTexas Thanks! I have thought about recording to DVD the entire game off Youtube, you just reminded me of that technical option. Great links! Thanks
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Frank Haith is an interesting character I had a negative impression of because of the reports of phone issues at Miami, but only a five game ban resulted for Haith on the heels of a Miami football investigation that incidentally turned up the phone infractions by the Miami basketball program. So: when Tulsa hires Haith to replace DMan, and we know that Self probably has input with Tulsa, one has to think a bit more about Haith. Fellow coaches seem to respect him, too.
I looked at his background and it is interesting. Though born in Queens, NY, he was raised in the Carolinas. His Wiki page doesn’t indicate he played college ball. He climbed up the hard way starting as an assistant at tiny Elon College, where he apparently assisted a few coaches including one William “Bill” Morningstar. I wonder if there were any connection to our Roger Morningstar’s family from Illinois? Probably not. But Morningstar is a little more rare than Smith in most phone books.
Next, Haith assisted Dave Odom at Wake Forrest twice. Odom, though not a huge winner, was nevertheless successful, and widely respected among fellow coaches for reasons I have never read explained. Regardless, Odom was long known as a right way guy and has been respected. Haith was his protege from early on.
Next, Haith assisted Tony Barone, who played at Duke for the venerated Bucky Walters, in the pre Consonants era in Durham. Haith assisted Barone at Texas A&M. Barone eventually was hired by Jerry West to coach the Memphis Grizzlies for a time. Barone is not a household name in coaching, but he is apparently a respected insider in coaching.
Haith next assisted Rick Barnes at Texas and is credited with attracting quite a bit of talent to Barnes’ early Texas teams. As we know, despite Barnes preference for Butcher Ball, he has over time been lumped in with the right way guys regarding cleanness of program operation.
Odom, Barone, and Barnes comprise a pretty formidable triad of mentors.
I don’t recall Haith at Miami.
And while I detest all things MU, I do have to admit that Haith had that 4-guard MU club, the last season MU was in the B12, playing incredibly good basketball, and giving Self all he could handle in the move and counter move department. Frank must be a sound coach.
So: I am inclined to guess that maybe Bill Self respects Frank Haith and maybe put in a good word for him at Tulsa, when asked, once Danny moved to Wake, and Bechard was not seriously considered. And I reckon it would not have hurt a bit to have Odom, Barone and Barnes on your resume, too.
And, as I speculated earlier, an man willing to leave a major for a mid major to get out of Columbia, MO, has to have some character, right?
Go Frank, go!!!
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@icthawkfan316 Haith to Tulsa sucks for Tulsa. Its LOL for me though. What, he thinks he will do better there? Pfffff.
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@jaybate 1.0 Well, ok I guess those are solid points. Maybe I can recant my previous statement.
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Yeah, it was hard for me to open up my thinking about him, too. And I’m not giving him an unqualified stamp of approval yet, just saying that maybe I’ve been reading him wrong. Time will tell.
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@jaybate 1.0 You say that maybe Self respects Haith, but I don’t know. At the least, I would say the respect doesn’t run both ways. Consider this quote from Haith when he was asked about the taking the Tulsa job:
“This has been a great basketball job at Tulsa with a great tradition with Tubby Smith, Nolan Richardson and most recently with Danny Manning.”
Self’s name not being included in that list is a glaring public jab in my opinion. He had to include Manning since Manning is the guy he’s replacing, and also as a way to reach out to Manning’s players he will be trying to keep from transferring. But to exclude the coach who has had the most success since leaving Tulsa…to me that screams of a giant “eff you Bill!”. I also suspect that he took it personally that Bill was so publicly adament about not playing Misery once they left the conference.
As far as him being a sound coach, I couldn’t say for sure. I don’t remember him from Miami and I didn’t bother watching a single MU game once they left the conference. But what I do know is that fans of both the Miami & MU programs were thrilled to have him gone. If it was just MU, I probably wouldn’t give it another thought, as that fan base is dumb enough that they probably wouldn’t recognize a good coach if they had one. Either that, or they’d deify him for being just “a good coach”. Not sure which would happen. Regardless, both fan bases seem to think he is a decent recruiter, but not a good game coach and is pretty awful at player development. Basically, he can bring in talent but doesn’t know what to do with it and never makes it any better. I remember researching him some when he took the MU job, and he did seem to bring in a fair amount of solid recruits to Miami, yet had a horrible winning percentage there. At MU, he thrived season one with Mike Anderson’s already developed upperclassmen. Once they left…NIT bound.
And lastly, I’m not sure why Tulsa would want this guy, unless they are tired of being a stepping stone program for up and coming coaches and feel Haith will be around for awhile. It just seems like a break from their MO in coaching hires.
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@jaybate 1.0 Bill Self STORMED right past Haith in the ‘no-handshake line’ (how does that equal respect in any way?)…maybe that is the MAJOR snub that pissed off Haith enough to omit Self’s name. Well, Bill Self has the last laugh at Tulsa–> All the stories on Danny getting hired by Tulsa 2 yrs ago showed the BIG painted mural & photos on the walls that show Bill Self’s smiling face alongside his 1999 Elite8 Tulsa team that went 32-5. A team that had NO MickeyDs. Man, its like a dang shrine over there about that season!
FRANK HAITH, YOU WILL NEVER BEAT THAT SELF-ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THAT YOU CHOSE TO ENTER… To beat that “smell of a pretender”, you have to beat 32-5, OR get past the Elite8. Good frickin’ luck…
I cannot give Haith full credit for Missouri’s 30win season, as that literally was Mike Anderson’s recruits and players, and they already had buckets of chemistry and swagger. So Haith was smart enough to stay out of their way? BFD!
Self’s snub of Haith is almost unprecedented in coaching, and probably even more unusual for a KU coach. Or a royalty program. Obviously, I will side with my man Self, as this was a glimpse of just how deep his “feelings” run about Missouri…and in that regard, you couldnt ask for a truer ‘Jayhawk’, in a Don Fambrough sort of way. Will have to accept Self’s fire&brimstone approach, even on this one. And its pretty much Bill Self that wont play Mizzou, thus we dont play them in basketball OR football. I’m sure there’s $$$ to be made, but KUAthletics chooses to follow its #1 money-man, Bill Self on this one. Self would probably go dunk on Haith or Mizzou himself, if he still could.
(no malice, except mostly towards Mizzou, and slightly towards Haith, for choosing to give us some bulletin board fodder…)
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I was hoping someone with better recollection of Haith would chime in. Thanks. I completely forgot about that no handshake line. You are right that it has to have meant something.
Maybe Self was fuming at MU, not Haith?
I agree, it seems unlikely. Self is pretty careful about coaching etiquette. If he were pissed at MU, and not Haith, he would probably not have taken it out on Haith.
So: are we to infer that Tulsa is mad at Danny and Bill for Danny for Danny leaving for a shot at a major?
Are we to infer they are hiring Haith in part as a snub of Self?
This one is very hard for me to read.
I have to think Tulsa could have found another coach as good as Haith without any of Haith’s baggage.
In fact, Tulsa has had such a long record of hiring reputable guys that I figured someone like Self would had to have put in a good word for Haith for Haith to have even been considered.
How about this: maybe Self WAS just pissed at MU and now regrets having snubbed Haith, who really had nothing to do with things. Maybe Self DID put in a good word for Haith at Tulsa to make up for that disrespect of Haith and to stick it in MU’s eye again!!! It is a pretty huge loss of face for MU for Haith to leave them voluntarily for a mid major, after all.
Or maybe Tulsa is just tired of coaches jumping on them and Haith promised them to stay a long time?
I am eager to hear your further thoughts and those of everyone else on this peculiar situation.
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Ooooh, ict, that quote is a doozy, isn’t it? I just saw it. I was working my way up from the bottom of the responses and got to yours after ralsters. Whew!
Good add also that you have recall of Miami fans wanting him gone; that counts in dot connecting.
Okay, my take was half baked, though in my defense I did condition it that I was not putting my seal of approval on Haith yet, only that I was trying to reopen my thinking about him and that he came from a respectable line of mentors.
But that quote!!!
Ouch!!!
Let’s schedule Tulsa and beat the shizz out of them, then never schedule them again until Haith is gone!!!
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You and ralster nailed. Miami was happy to see Haith leave since he did not have a single conference winning record in six years.
It was mentioned that he had good mentors but this alone does not make you a good coach. He had one good season at MU with Anderson’s players and after that, and with well above average talent, he clearly underperformed. He is obvioulsy better suitedas a coach at a small program and not a Division I program where he has not really had much success.
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@jaybate 1.0 Good thread, jaybate and ict316. I do like to blast on Mizzou, and exactly as jaybate said, perhaps Frank Haith is ‘collateral damage’ as Self’s true disdain is for Univ.of LesMizzerables.
So if Self put in a good word for Haith (who knows?), then Haith had no reason to snub Self publicly.
Another FACT from Tulsa AD’s view: We at Tulsa liked Self’s 32-5, Elite8 season. We got Danny, and he installed Self’s system and got us back to March Madness faster-than-Larry-Brown-at-SMU. Now the puzzling part: So instead of hiring a Self-system guy like Ballard, etc…they hire the unproven Frank Haith, whose lone claim to fame was the 30win coattail-team season, marred by NorfolkState memory. And why would Tulsa Athletics be mad at Bill Self after he’s been gone for 15yrs?
Coaches going up the ladder is nothing new. (Beware Shocker fans…) Why Tulsa AD would pick a guy who is “descending” the ladder is beyond me. I’d rather seen Billy Gillispie get a final chance somewhere, at least he proved he could recruit and coach…but 2 flameouts in 5yrs may have put BillyClyde on the blacklist.
Finally, another thought from the player/former-player perspective: We know coach Self coaches with the same swagger and toughness expectations (archane or not) that HE played with as a player. Frank Haith did not play Div.1 ball…so Self cannot begin at that level of respect even. Question: did Scot Drew play Div.1 ball? I say this, because there may be an element of ex-player-club mentality at play in coaching circles that we never really talk about?? Just thinking aloud…
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Add this Haith quote to the proverbial fire (from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch):
Haith had a few flubs in his session with reporters. He referred to Tulsa’s new conference, the American Athletic Conference, as “the Atlantic.” When discussing his track record at Mizzou he said, “We’ve won some games. We beat Kansas at Kansas.” **Missouri hasn’t won at Kansas since 1999, when Norm Stewart was coach. Haith was 0-1 at Allen Fieldhouse.
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@ralster According to Scott Drew’s wikipedia page, he never even played varsity basketball in high school. Says he went to Butler and spent a couple seasons as one of the student team managers, then went and asst. coached for his dad at Valpo.
And re-reading your posts got me reminiscing about TRob. Man…what a player. Loved his on-court enthusiasm and all-out effort. Here’s a youtube link I have saved that I thought you’d enjoy (and as a bonus it has the clip of Self’s “roundhouse fist spike thing”
)
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@CRH107 Happy to read your pointing out that recent Haith quote, “We beat Kansas at Kansas.” HA! Once a shyster, always a shyster. Frank Haith, Coach of the Year…BALONEY!
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@ralster If you haven’t seen it yet, here is the full game on YouTube, HighDef and all.
(Part 1) (Part 2)
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Part 1
Part 2
