Joel's Gone
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@HighEliteMajor NO offense to Traylor, Lucas or Mickelson, but they aren’t near the talent and inside presence of Embiid or Turner. Lucas was lost in the games he played. We don’t know what Mickelson is like and Traylor is becoming a stronger Ellis 2.0. Alex will hold his own, but he’ll need some help inside. Alex is a better version and scoring threat than Black. He will be Black and more. Having Embiid or Turner would really free up Alexander and Ellis a bit inside. Traylor was really beginning to step up too. I can only hope that Mickelson learned from Embiid. Turner would be Embiid with a better outside threat. He can pull bigs out of the lane which is what we’ve needed when these teams sag in zone or man-man.
But once again, I’m looking for better pg play next year. If Tharpe is Self’s pick for pg next year…it’s going to be another long year.
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" If Tharpe is Self’s pick for pg next year…it’s going to be another long year"
Or, in terms of the actual number of basketball games, another short year.
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@truehawk93 Well, sure, Traylor, Lucas, and Mickelson aren’t near Embiid.
How do you know that Alexander is a better version of Black? Or that he will be “Black and more?” Would you expect him to do more than Black did against Stanford?
And you are projecting Turner basically to be every bit as good as Embiid but with a better outside shot? Embiid is being compared to Olajuwan, right? One of the best centers ever. Once in a decade type guy. And Turner is that plus a better outside shot.
Don’t bank on it.
Let’s not fall for these OAD guys too quickly now and imagine them to be better than what we had. It’s easy to fantasize that they’ll be immediate studs. Just don’t bite too firmly.
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@nuleafjhawk UGH… : (
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THIS REPORT IS NOT TRUE EVERYONE…CALM DOWN
Joel-Hans Embiid @jojo_embiid @humblekid11 haven’t made a decision yet
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Trying to share a couple of photos, but can’t seem to figure it out without imgur…
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@HighEliteMajor I’m one of the biggest realist there is on this board. I’ve tried to be objective. I try to call it like I see it. I always watch these guys in HS and then add the D1 effect with each recruit. We have to realize these guys are playing with average to below average HS talent. So, when they come into college, their play will meet some stiff competition or talent.
I do expect Alex to adjust really well. I see him struggling a bit like TRob, but will impact inside really well. I fought really hard not to fall for the hype around Wigs and was still just a tad disappointed. I’m not falling for media hype. I’m going on my own observations. I don’t get into the Olajuwan or LeBron crap, it’s stupid. I just watch the player and watch their basic skill sets. Turner will struggle too. None will come in and make an immediate impact. There is always the D1 adjustment period. CF, Green, White, Wigs, Mason, Lucas; They all have to go through that adjustment. It depends on how much pt they get and how much confidence they gain, and lastly how they adjust mentally with themselves.
I don’t bite much at all my friend. I simply call it like I see it. Sometimes I’m right and sometimes I’m wrong. But thanks for the reminder of reality.
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THIS REPORT IS NOT TRUE EVERYONE…CALM DOWN
Joel-Hans Embiid @jojo_embiid @humblekid11 haven’t made a decision yet
LET ME REPEAT, THIS IS NOT TRUE
humblekid11 is Cliff Alexander…FYI
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Wow, really? A lot of major media outlets are going to be eating crow if what you say is true.
I don’t tweet, or twit or whatever, I assume that’s a tweet from Joel?
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@MoonwalkMafia I’m thinking this may be a writer’s attempt at getting the most anticipated news of a top recruit. Like I said, I’ll wait to hear it from Embiid. These writers will say anything for a story. At this point, I’m not too convinced it’s completely true.
Possible and very likely, but just not completely verified.
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@wissoxfan83 Ya, they are incorrect. Joel has said numerous times this morning that he hasn’t made a decision yet. These reports are incorrect. Yahoo already retracted them and apologized for the mistake.
And yes, that’s a tweet from Joel
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@wissoxfan83 You can actually google Joel Embiid and read a little of his twitter. You just can’t respond without an account.
Cliff Alexander@humblekid11·1h Good luck to you big fella @jojo_embiid
Joel-Hans Embiid@jojo_embiid·1 hr @humblekid11 haven’t made a decision yet 6:04 AM - 27 Mar 2014
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@truehawk93 don’t we-KU, usually hold a press conference for these announcements? I know Ben did?
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@HighEliteMajor My first comment ever on a board about KU sports. I don’t like for these kids to leave after one year anymore than you do. However, a couple observations: 1) When Joel came to KU, he was considered to be a “project.” He was supposed to be a backup behind Tarik Black–not a OAD. He developed much faster than expected and put himself into position to be as high as a #1 NBA draft choice. 2) It could be that Bill Self has stated that it would be foolish for him to come back since he can’t improve his draft stock much, if any.
I would be hard-pressed to make the decision to return to KU under those circumstances. I would imagine you would too.
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The story is still on Yahoo at 9:50
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@wissoxfan83 My sincere apologies if I have posted mis information about Joel. Would not be surprised either if some beat writer saw his tweet to Cliff & thought he was getting the real scoop on a breaking event. Journalism can be a nasty, unscrupulous, & disreputable profession. I recall as a chaperon on a field trip, one of my 30 yr old son’s elementary teachers telling me 20 yrs back that her major was is journalism but opted to be a teacher because of the rampant lack of ethics in the business. Again, if this turns out to be false, my apologies.
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@wissoxfan83 I tweeted once, but I got something from my doctor to take care of it.
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@globaljaybird Everyone here knows you’re a stand-up guy and would not have intentionally posted something untrue.
If he stays or if he goes, it has no bearing on your credibility with us!
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@nuleafjhawk Thanks for the vote of confidence (proverbial?)Oh hell I better get the resume out there quick !! On the lighter side, Oakville just posted on kusports.com to Turner, “The paint is yours…just make sure you know where Cliff is at all times !!” Damn he’s a funny guy, I wish he’s get on board with that schtick here.
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@Wigs2 No, you are correct. When I’ve discussed OADs, I’ve typically separated them – presumed OADs, and OADs. Meaning, Wiggins was a presumed OAD, and Embiid/Selden were not. It is an important distinction.
And to your point, how could coach Self have projected Embiid would be an OAD? Maybe he could, maybe he couldn’t. But I do not criticize his decision in the least on Embiid. Awesome recruiting coup.
My point is that when a guy leaves after one year, it makes you consider the alternatives, and thus our recruiting philosophy. Yes, we want the best players. But is there a better approach?
On the Shepherd/Embiid deal, I had just posed the question earlier in the season: would you trade Embiid for Shepherd assuming we don’t win the national title. I added the national title thing because of course, if we win a national title, every move was “perfect.”
Now, if Embiid is gone, I would rather have the #50ish player with a year of experience. And a guy that would not dissuade an Alexander type player from coming.
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@HighEliteMajor just an added note, I heard JoJo was not playing if we kept winning. Looking down the road???
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@Crimsonorblue22 Can you (LOL) quote the source? I flubbed up & broke the water for ya if not.
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@globaljaybird no, you are funny!
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@globaljaybird I’m trying to find the positives! IF we get turner, maybe we’re in better shape than w/ailing back Embiid???
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I’m as ready for the NBA as Embiid is. I’m 6’1, 225#, HATE to lose.
I’m 55 and my back is strong.
Where do I sign?
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@nuleafjhawk and… You have a couple of tats!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I doubt Wigs will hold a presser. Embiid might hold one or just twitter it.
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@nuleafjhawk Now that’s funny stuff…
@wissoxfan83 I tweeted once, but I got something from my doctor to take care of it.
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This post is deleted!
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If you twitter, does that make you a TWIT? Or a twitterer?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Lol - good memory!!
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It’s interesting that Embiid doesn’t just announce like Selden and remove the speculation. But, Embiid hasn’t done that. Short of making corrections, he isn’t exactly denying that he’s leaving either.
Help me if I’m wrong and this may sound silly, but Embiid and Wigs can talk to an agent? They just can’t sign? Or are they violating their amateur status by simply “talking” to an agent?
You ncaa rule freaks need to enlighten us ignorant folk.
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@HighEliteMajor Let me pose a hypothetical for you regarding Shepherd: instead of Shepherd for Embiid swap, would you rather trade Black for Shepherd and keep Embiid? So many people omit Black from the OAD discussion. Black wasn’t a presumed OAD; he was a guaranteed OAD - one and done at KU. His 3 years of Memphis mean nothing to anybody here. Nobody here fondly remembers any moments of Black’s first 3 years at Memphis. The talk about Black coming in was that he was going to be Perry Ellis’ best friend because he was the bruiser that would allow Ellis to do his work inside. As a senior he was presumed to be more seasoned; further along in his understanding of the college game. Then he couldn’t stay on the court for more than 3 minutes at a time before picking up two fouls. He later proved to be a valuable piece off the bench, but not exactly what we thought we were getting. If Embiid leaves, we have essentially played the last season with two OADs in our big man rotation. As a senior, Black had very little room to improve as he was closer to his ceiling coming in than Embiid or Shepherd.
So…keep Embiid with a chance he stays, and if he doesn’t you have some of the ancillary benefits of the “recruiting coup” as you put it and his lofty draft stock (feathers in Self’s cap to use in recruiting), or Black who had no chance to come back?
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@icthawkfan316 no way I trade black, I think he cared more about ks than the others.
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Black not only was muscle on the court, but a leader and a teacher off of it to his teammates.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Why do you think that? Maybe it’s true, maybe not. But why would that matter? HEM’s question about Shepherd/Embiid is based on the notion of trying to win national championships. Given that this year didn’t net us a national championship, why would you not trade Black for Shepherd? We know that bringing in Black didn’t win us one, but a guy like Shepherd with years to develop might.
The answer is sentiment. Most of us like Black, just like I would assume most of us like Embiid. In essence my question (mainly posed to @HighEliteMajor since he brought up that he would trade Shepherd for Embiid) is would you keep Embiid or would you keep Black, assuming we could land Shepherd? I’d take Embiid all day. Not because of any personal feelings, but because of two reasons: 1) a freshman Embiid was better & more valuable than a senior Black, and 2) there was always a chance from the outset we might get more than one year out of Embiid.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I would love to have 5 players for 4 yrs like Black. Imagine what you could do…WOW
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@globaljaybird OMG…it’s all your fault?..LOL. it’s all over every sports website known to man, my friend. I read it on CBS, and rushed over here, and found your post. You beat any number of us to it.
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@KUSTEVE Funny how ESPN hasn’t broken the Embiid mess. They are probably breaking their necks to verify.
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@truehawk93 To me guys with heart go a lot further than talent in college.
Look Arizona and Kentucky is the only team left with a phenom freshman. Kentucky is there due to multiple freshman, Arizona is there because he has guys with heart on the team to keep things going. Duke, Syracuse and KU are all at home with a bunch of talent.
Stanford played with heart and they over came a talented KU team.
When losing hurts so bad you drop to your knees like Black did against Stanford, it shows he had heart, a lot of those guys just went and shook hands and walked off the floor.
Maybe long term projects aren’t bad but there is no guarantee how long they stay or if they pan out, maybe if he stayed four years he would have the heart the size of Black.
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@icthawkfan316 With a heavy, heavy heart, I suppose I will be having to admit I was wrong…dead wrong about Embiid at some point. I became emotionally invested in the idea he would be back, and the longer the process takes, the more I think you’ll end up being right, and he leaves. I’m not sad over being wrong- I’m sad because I think it would be a really bad decision for Joel. I know I’m biased, but I think the kid needs another year to be a kid, and find his way on and off the court before he goes pro.
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@KUSTEVE Comepletely accidental find today.It was by force of habit to check boards’ posts this am, but believe it or not, that was not the first item on the honeydo list today…or any day for that (her) matter. LOL
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@HighEliteMajor Your philosophy that you’d rather have the “#50ish player” rather than a potential OAD is interesting. But if you are going to go after that player and exclude the OAD, you are starting to look at recruiting against Texas and Gonzaga rather than Kentucky and Arizona. You are also hoping for a 4 or 5 seed–or even lower–every year in the NCAA tournament, with the hope of making it to the top tier. Once you start dropping, the higher-rated prospects are going to start going elsewhere.
I was thrilled that Wiggins chose to come to KU. I think this season was much better than it would have been without him.
Also, many refer to the 2008 team as being special because it lacked an OAD. However, both Brandon Rush and Darrell Arthur were potential OADs. Is that the type player you don’t want to recruit anymore?
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@icthawkfan316 not impressed w/Shepard, I really feel JoJo didn’t want to chance his back playing in tourney, 'cause of the NBA. Not saying I blame him.
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Well, even though this rumor proved to be unfounded for the moment, it may well still come true. The question becomes where do we go from there? Myles Turner is the obvious answer, but Self has also been looking at Juco center Akolda Manyang
He, like Turner, is more limited offensively than Embiid, but he’s also a great rim protector and is pretty agile for his size. Again, I’m not making a direct comparison to Embiid, because he’s no where near that level, but he could be a serviceable piece should Embiid split and Turner miss.
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@konkeyDong that was impressive! Thanks!
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@HighElite Major
Now, if Embiid is gone, I would rather have the #50ish player with a year of experience. And a guy that would not dissuade an Alexander type player from coming.
One moment, Bill coaches to win every single game. He never once has coached for next year. They break the huddle 1, 2, 3, Big 12 Champs! or 1, 2, 3, National Champs1! It’s never 1, 2, 3, wait 'til next year! (I think that is an actual KSU chant) In trying to win every game Bill knew he had 5 spots to fill. Two players already in the program and go get the rest. This is a recipe for disaster, but Self churned out another Big 12 championship.
Bill did this on the shoulders of freshman greatness. Without Wiggins or Embiid (or OAD Black) KU looses at least 15 games. Figure 5 points less production out of the Wiggins spot and 4-5 points more scored by the opposition due to no Embiid.
Now to your question: No. I wouldn’t like 12 Andrew Whites/Naadir Tharpes on this team. I feel that putting the best talent on the floor is what wins National Championships. Wiggins and Embiid certainly give you a much better shot at winning with them than without.
The team in 2007-08 (yeah that team) won it all following two number one recruiting classes. So big talent is what big Bill wants. Talent overload with veteran leadership is the easy road to national titles.
As if an easy road to national titles exists.
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@dylans I’m gonna respectfully disagree with your statement about “putting the best talent on the floor is what wins National Championships.”
I believe that having experienced talent wins them.
It will be interesting to see in a couple of weeks who is holding up that trophy and if their starting lineup is heavy with FR/SO or JR/SR talent.
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@nuleafjhawk I said with veteran leadership (like Carmello’s 'Cuse team). And there really is no true recipe to National titles or Wooden’s book would be way more expensive.
