Final Grades For Year (+ Last Year's Recruiting Class)
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Smh it’s easy to tear things down. Try building them up.
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@HighEliteMajor You work awfully hard to undercut Self at every turn. Are you related to Diallo? Did your kid not get a scholarship because of Traylor? Did Lucas piss in your gas tank?
This year was doomed when Dok and SDS were taken out of the equation. No need to kick the dog. Look for positive signs of growth going forward. I’m pumped about Ochai, Dotson, and McCormack! I hope Grimes sticks around and the light comes on for him soon. I’m excited to see what recruits the staff is able to bring in, there are a number of positions that need help and quality recruits are dwindling. Typical problem when you have so much late roster turnover of underclassmen.
No need to fixate on the shortcomings of the past. There will be hard times ahead, but the future is always bright, this is Kansas!!!
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@dylans Oh, are you Self’s little protector? His apologist? @wissox brought up Diallo for what it’s worth, I revisited Self’s foolishness — why? Because I felt like it. And, of course, as time has gone by, it’s more and more obvious that Self’s approach on Diallo was as foolish as I said at the time. The type of player (slug) Self relied on cost is in the exact manner that was discussed before it happened.
But it is all relevant to our current roster building right now.
It is so laughable to hear people — you at this time — try to defend the LL/Traylor disaster. How many top players did Self’s misguided love affair with those two cost us?
And KU didn’t effect KSU at all this year. Makes zero sense.
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@tundrahok He was 3rd team which does not make him “Consensus”. That rarified air is reserved for the true first team elite like Frank.
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Good point!
I just got around to watching Texas Tech vs Michigan State and was amazed at how well Texas Tech executed their game plan and played true hustle defense… the kind of defense many of us talk about and what Kansas doesn’t do, even in our better years. We make up a lot of ground with some of our teams with athleticism.
But what Beard has done should be focused on and he did it without a bunch of top recruits.
I have to say that I am extremely impressed with Beard and his abilities. I’m not trying to slam our coaching… though I do think we need to retool our thoughts and consider what Beard is doing.
If the team is coached well, we shouldn’t be worried if we have a down year recruiting Top 25 talent!
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And KU didn’t effect KSU at all this year. Makes zero sense.
Quit playing dumb to support your narrative. I seem to remember a very gimpy Wade playing late in the season in an attempt to 1) beat KU 2) dethrone KU as conference champs. IMO this was at the expense of Wade’s health and KSU’s post season chances.
I didn’t defend anyone, just pointed out your never ending stream of hatred for those players and at Self’s willingness to play them.
Lucas was never supposed to start. He was 1/2 of an emergency backup plan that included Braeden Anderson. He was recruited over every single year. Did he complain? Did he transfer out? No, he gave KU all he had. Was it enough to win a championship? No. Did he embarrass the University? No. He worked his butt off and gave KU all he had for 5 years. None of those highly ranked recruits that were suppose to replace him were nearly smart enough to learn the system fast enough to not negatively effect the team. i.e. Diallo was rough on a fairly smooth running team. Alexander’s mom is the reason Alexander wasn’t able to finish his freshman year. He was just becoming a nice player. Top 25 recruit and a sophomore, Bragg, was unable to get his head straight and has since transferred…twice. Udoka got injured his freshman year. Lucas was supposed to be a backup and solid practice player.
Hating on Lucas is like hating on Moody. Neither were supposed to start. Neither were KU caliber talent, but their hard play was rewarded due to roster construction.
There is no perfect system. Most 4-5 year guys are worse than Lucas. OADs don’t always flourish under complex systems like Self/Wright run. 2-3 year high talent guys are hard to identify - Grimes should be one, but seems dead set on being a OAD. Devon, Ochai, and David are the type of players I love seeing and hope to see more of.
Doesn’t it seem like certain players were forced upon Kansas by Adidas? The recruits out of left field like Diallo and Preston, or possibly Wright and SDS?
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@drgnslayr I love what Beard is doing. I wish Hoiberg was still at ISU pushing Self also. Beard is the only coach in America I’m jealous of. First time I’ve felt that since KU played a team coached by a young Billy Self.
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@Fightsongwriter I’m just repeating what I’ve read:
Lawson on Tuesday landed on yet another postseason All-American team, this one a third team honor handed out by The Associated Press.
That news officially made Lawson a consensus third team All-American, which is determined by adding up the various honors handed out by the four major All-American teams — The AP, the USBWA, the NABC and The Sporting News.
Lawson’s honor marks the fourth consecutive year that the Kansas program has had a consensus All-American, with Perry Ellis earning second team honors in 2016 and Frank Mason III and Devonte’ Graham earning first team honors in 2017 and 2018.
Lawson becomes the 13th Jayhawk in the Bill Self era to earn consensus All-American honors.
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/02/kansas-junior-dedric-lawson-earns-consensus-all-am/
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@tundrahok I guess a consensus 3rd team AA is like being the consensus 5th place homecoming queen runner up. Who cares!?! If you aint consensus 1st team who gives a rip?
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@Fightsongwriter I think it is a pretty prestigious award! Being a top 15 player! Why would they pick them if it wasn’t an honor?
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@Fightsongwriter Yes, first is better. But somebody must care, or they wouldn’t have that category.
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@dylans So, by your logic, if KSU wasn’t trying to “dethrone” KU – if ISU had won the league in 2018 – then KSU wouldn’t have worked so hard to win the league? So it was KU. Sorry, that’s just laughable. I can understand the opinion that he could have rested for the NCAA tourney, if in fact his usage was the cause and then that usage being the cause was known before he did it. I.e., “You know what Dean, because your foot will likely react negatively if you play the next two games, you are really jeopardizing your availability for the tourney if you don’t rest.” But for that, no.
Stop being foolish. You know I don’t hate those players. Saying “hatred” is just irresponsible. But it’s what’s done because it makes you feel better to say it. I liked both of them. Seemed like good kids. Generally, proud to have them on the team. However, I can say that, but logically, from a BB perspective, also realize that KU basketball on the court, would have been better if neither of them would have come to KU. Perhaps you can’t separate that. I can.
Most 4-5 year guys are worse than Lucas? Where, here? Mason, Graham, Releford, Withey, Taylor, EJ …
Don’t try to absolve coach Self. He’s the boss. He either brought in guys who were bad, had issues, or he flat wouldn’t play for whatever reason. You take your pick. But this is his ship and he had LL starting on a NC caliber team, and had Traylor taking up valuable minutes and starting quite a bit. You can’t have it both ways (at least logically).
Ah, but your last sentence makes a pretty comical excuse, and I assume you’re saying this with a straight face. You seem to claim that our coaching and recruiting genius, Bill Self, was forced to take certain players by Adidas?
Hmmm … maybe a consideration is this - Self’s use of talented players caused recruits to hesitate to choose KU. They would see low talent security blankets get minutes and decide that they’d rather go to a place that they might have a better opportunity, and not the risk of finding Bill Self’s bench. Then, with that in place, Self needed Adidas to get him players (and they had to pay for them).
Maybe that’s not far fetched, as recruiting guys suggest Self’s player usage, particularly on top guys, has always caused him issues.
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@tundrahok I think it’s a bit of the “everybody needs a ribbon” syndrome. Always used to just be 1st and 2nd team.
@Crimsonorblue22 The point was the issue of “consensus,” not if it’s nice to get recognition. The reality is on a team with substandard talent he scored a lot of points and got some boards. Ho hum. He was the best of some really average players. That truth may hurt, I know. End of the day, he just was not all that great despite padding stats on a deficient team. I don’t think he would crack my list of Top 100 Hawks.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Fightsongwriter I think it is a pretty prestigious award! Being a top 15 player! Why would they pick them if it wasn’t an honor?
Doesn’t a consensus AA get his number retired by KUs guidelines?
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@dylans only first team
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Fightsongwriter said:
@dylans only first team
Makes sense. Dedrick was ok, but not rafter worthy IMHO.
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The new qualifications are whoever Bill wants to put up there.
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@Fightsongwriter Actually, the AP has listed 3rd team All-Americans in basketball since 1948.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_america.html
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@BShark kinda. It’s pretty easy to get in The rafters now. It used to take 3 all American years or consensus POY. No one was getting retired they relaxed the guidelines at Roy’s request as I recall.
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@Fightsongwriter ho hum, not really asking for your opinion. But thanks anyway.
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@Crimsonorblue22 You gave yours, so give me a break.
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I’d think a player has to give more than 1 year to KU to be considered worthy for jerseys in the rafters.
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@wissox point taken, but I’d consider him a Jayhawk for 2 years, just as Matt Kleinmann was a Jayhawk for 4. Who is to say Dedrics contributions on the practice squad last year didn’t contribute to our E8 win over Duke?
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@wissox I’d make an exception for anyone who carries KU to a championship! And there are ways a one year player could do it under the current guidelines- tournament MOP or NPOY would guarantee a spot in the rafters.
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@approxinfinity @dylans Yes indeed. I’ll make the exception when we win the championship led by a OAD!!
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@wissox would not hold your breath.
