Do you self-identifying "conservatives" follow Jordan Peterson?

  • I decided to watch several hours of Jordan Peterson videos tonight, per a recommendation. I find the videos he has on youtube to be more compelling than any of the garbage on Fox.

    These are the videos I watched:

    (Peterson discusses hierarchical organization of society)
    (Peterson trashes a host that asks the kind of loaded questions that someone triggered by Fox likely would generalize all “leftists” as believing. I think this interview grew his fame substantially?)
    (talks with Ben Shapiro and some other guy who was unimpressive. I’m not a big fan of Shapiro, but was interested more in Peterson’s counterpoint to Shapiro’s talking points)
    (Talking about American politics, identity politics, the fallacy of equality of outcome, and I appreciate how while he focuses on the shortcomings of the left, he criticizes what both parties are doing, that both are guilty of the same problems)
    (Peterson talks about unhappiness in our culture and how people might change their perspective to be happier)

    Anyway, it was interesting.

  • He is fascinating. Keeps a calm about him and refuses to get boxed in to mischaracterizations of his PoV.

  • Another thing I like about him, and the various discussions he has, they typically (when it’s not an outright hostile interview) are very open discussions often around very different conceptions and it is characterized as understanding that they want to get the best arguments against their position, so they can be strengthened and or learn where they haven’t properly considered an angle.

    That has been at times a strength of this board, until some folks take it too personally and it degenerates. Bring on healthy arguments and let’s learn and improve all our knowledge of bball.

  • @approxinfinity

    Peterson is not only a brilliant thinker but a very polished and skilled debater as well. Ben Shapiro is also one of brighter minds of the new generation but more blunt than Peterson. He graduated with top honors from UCLA at age 20 after skipping two grades in school and then got a law degree from Harvard also with top honors; he wrote his first book by the time he was 18…In case you were wondering, he is not a fan or supporter of Trump.

  • @approxinfinity

    After skimming his wiki page briefly, my money is on him being controlled opposition.

    US intel and the Deep State appear to roll these guys out endlessly on left and right to take up oxygen on the wings. They carefully marginalize legitimate discourse and keep it from attaining a critical mass of consensus whatever their reasons for doing so.

    For every apparently controlled Noam Chomsky, there follows an apparently controlled Jordan Peterson on the right.

    (Note: I know, I know, I have no certain idea what the guy really is. He may be American Socrates, also, but the life history has that feel. All this and what follows are speculation from the outside looking in to a box that appears pretty opaque to me these days.)

    Black Money is apparently spent to foster and grow the divisive issue, media figure and/or group and then a later lackey is rolled out to divide the divisive issue.

    The controlled opposition appear often cherry picked young from the “other side”, or so the cliched legend goes. They start out a young idealistic leftie (or rightie) and then learn how fouled up and corrupt the left (or right) ideologies are and move right (or left). Capice? It probably gives them character arc and also makes them feel kind of vulnerable to exposure for having switched. Who knows? You’d have to be an Intel pro to know their techniques.

    The managers of the discourse propaganda game have to get a good chuckle each time some of us get sucked in and take 5-10 years to catch on to one of their latest lackeys.

    Full Spectrum Dominance Doctrine apparently requires lackeys not only on both ends, but high brow and low brow on the ends—AND in the trusted center. Not just MSM has to be controlled—the wings have to be, too.

    Chomskys and Petersons—“controlled brilliants” if you will—are needed to frame the official talking points, for wannabe intellectuals, same as “controlled bombasts”, like Alex Jones, are needed to serve the low brow market.

    It’s all about managing the political signals and resulting engineered public opinion in the differen markets.

    One of the tells is whether these guys get to stay gainfully employed in the establishment and spout their “controversial” stuff (likely controlled), or they get shit canned (likely uncontrolled).

    Another tell is if they are successfully monetizing their dissent, rather than getting sent to the poor house. True dissent is rarely profitable while those one dissents from are in broad control of the levers of power.

    Then there are even a few that are apparently full blown professional spooks (maybe Edward Snowden?) that apparently maybe get assigned to go “rogue” and infiltrate and inform for “the other side.”

    Even guys widely believed to be true dissenters, like Assange and Norman Finkelstein and some of the internal leakers revealing about American and European media being fully controlled by the CIA/MI5/Mossad since the 1950s have to be viewed somewhat skeptically, unless they get verifiably whacked, or “accidented”, IMHO. There just is great intelligence benefit, and historical precedent, to creating fake defectors given very thorough legends so as to insinuate them into possible spy networks of opponents. Assange, if he were really still alive (seemingly unlikely but possible), and Finkelstein, could be the real deals, but you can’t be sure, so long as they at least appear to be alive . Someone like Snowden seems a likely fake defector, a digital age equivalent to Lee Oswald and reputedly many other fake defectors back in the old fake defector program days when the Soviets sent us fake defectors too. Assange and Finkelstein could turn out to be counterfeits, or real. Unless they are verifiably imprisoned at Leavenworth, or verifiably executed, you can’t say for sure. And it is frankly very tough to verify real imprisonment or execution these days. Remember Osama bin Laden? The guy has reputedly died so many times so many places I have no idea what really became of him, though if I had to bet, I would bet $5 on kidney failure back in 2001, or 2002.

    Speaking of controlled opposition, where’s the apparent Infowars lackey, Alex Jones, or whatever legend he goes by, going to pop up next? They appear likely clearing him from their wake, if he were controlled. Maybe he fades away, like Mike “Peak Oil” Rupert. Each of these guys appear iterations of the guys that preceded them. Disinformation in America is a medley of medley relays. Set’em up, use’em, knock’em down. Repeat.

    Our private oligarchy’s reputed Deep State controlled media told us all very plainly 9/11 changed everything; that things were never going to be the same. They haven’t been. Take them at their word. On 9/12 Dubya reputedly signed the executive order implementing the FEMA COG, which was only to be implemented in case of war, or other national emergency. It has reputedly never been rescinded 18 years later. We have apparently been in a state of war or some kind of national security emergency ever since. Whatever, this is NOT a conspiracy. They have told us what has been done. They codified it retroactively with the Patriot Acts and Military Commissions Act. The torture prisons operate. We are searched at airports and mapped and listened to. A border wall has been being built under two Presidents now that can both keep others out, and us in. 5 or 10 countries have been knocked over and Iran is reputed to come. Reputed mass murder and weaponized refugee vectors have been resorted to. Millions are dead. Time tested agent provocateur acts of violence and terror appear to occur with official explanations that make little sense and evolve as skepticism and contrary facts arise. Presidents have apparently been selected and destabilized as needed in plain sight by a group the apparently controlled MSM openly refers to as a Deep State. The current reputedly unexpectedly elected President openly and repeatedly says elections are rigged and the news is fake. The Deep State and the MSM apparently openly want him removed and likely jailed. Pedophile rings traditionally used to compromise public officials surface frequently and then recede with out successful prosecution. Candidates guilty of reputedly known major violations go unpunished while lesser offenders are given massive sentences. Feasible 24/7 NSA surveillance of all digitized information flows reputedly occurs. The CIA contracts for $600 Million with Amazon ownership that also owns the WAPO. The current NSA director reputedly even learned very soon when the secret FISA Court was being improperly informed by the FBI about the dirty dossier for god’s sakes. NSA reputedly can look at any intercepts and know if Russia and Trump colluded even without a special prosecutor. The internet has been openly reinstituted to allow the big tech firms to make it hard to find the facts and easier to marginalize and smear dissenters and leakers. Late in the Obama administration the government reputedly authorized itself to use propaganda on the American people for what reason I do not know.


    Folks that believe in conspiracy just haven’t been paying very close attention.

    Motives may be murky and complicated, but then they usually are.

    It’s all above board otherwise, whether you think it’s stupid, or smart, wrong or right.

    To borrow Coach Self’s phrase, this is who we are…now.

    The goal is clear: national security at any cost.

    The result so far appears broadly clear at least: sharply conditioned freedom, oligarchy rule (see President Carter) and fantastic re-concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a small private oligarchy, a trillion dollar mil-int budget, and an internal struggle over which axis of private oligarchy gets to wage war to stop the the Shanghai Security Pact from staying in control of the Trans EurAsian super corridors and starting their own EurAsian central bank. This is euphemized as “the China Pivot.” The MSM reports very selectively, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientists to simply look at what they don’t cover, read a little, and see what they are omitting and sometimes why.

    What’s hard for people is the relentless fear mongering and fake news insinuations of wrong doing that never pan out, and the resorting to arrests for unrelated crimes and the inducement of the arrested to “compose” something that contradicts the story of those we put our trust in by vote. This wears an ordinary American down when 5 holding companies coordinate their 90% of MSM outlets to pump out fake news and allegations for a year. Americans probably now have some idea now of how our opponents feel once our mil-int complex commits to destabilizing a foreign country. Destabilization hurts.

    But Jesus once said: the rich we will always have with us.

    If Jesus were alive today, would he say: the rich and their spooks and controlled opposition we will always have with us?

    Jordon Peterson?

    Maybe he is real, or maybe he controlled.

    Either way…

    Be skeptical.

    Be very, VERY skeptical.

    And be so whether one self identifies as conservative, liberal, or indie.

    We ordinary folk need to constantly keep in mind how little we can know for certain in war time, when the well of information is being poisoned with a virtually unlimited budget for whatever reason.

    We have to remember that war unearths and exposes many of the long term flaws and power cliques of a nation and especially their corruption of its government, as well as its heroism and virtues and commitment to its values. Disappointment is to be expected but despair is not allowed.

    We have to hope and pray those at the top know more about what they are doing than it has appeared they do so far, and at the same time be loyal, skeptical, civil, vigilant and encouraging of whatever republican self-governance continues, so that slowly, fitfully but inexorably competence and insight and representative vision can resume more fully operational than presently appears the case.

    I believe America will eventually prevail over its intentionally engineered divisions, and opponents, but economic circumstances and certain elements within the private oligarchy are going to be very problematic, as they were in the Depression and early days of WWII, also.

    Nothing is written.

    But there is no doubt the sled runners need some wax about now.

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