Is Charlie Moore One of the Two Five Stars Self Has Coming in at PG Next Season?
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Or does Bill have Charlie and two five start point guards coming?
If it were the latter, what would become of Charlie?
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Charlie Moore isn’t really a PG. He will be better served off the ball as a scorer. He will be listed as one because he is small. He actually fits pretty well with the guards KU has coming in. Grimes has sensational court vision and awareness, and Dotson is a penetrator.
When I listen to what Self has said about Moore, it sounds like he has a ways to go.
Moore was a 4*, fwiw.
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@BShark I did not know that. Everything I’ve seen and read says Charlie Moore is a point guard. I just thought he wasn’t a very good one – mainly the very poor assist/turnover ratio. So you’ve got me reconsidering the dynamic for next season. You believe he’s going to be best served playing off the ball?
At 6’0", or really below that, it is difficult for me to see him having that as his primary role when Self has much longer guys available to man the 2-3 spots, like Grimes, Garrett, and Cunliffe (or Newman if he’d possibly return). I had envisioned Moore being insurance if we didn’t get a top PG. Now that we have Dotson, I assumed he’d be the back PG and likely not in the game when Dotson was.
Your comment got me thinking, though, about Self and his preference of having two primary ball handlers in the game together. Assuming Vick is gone, do you see Moore and Dotson starting together?
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark I did not know that. Everything I’ve seen and read says Charlie Moore is a point guard. I just thought he wasn’t a very good one – mainly the very poor assist/turnover ratio. So you’ve got me reconsidering the dynamic for next season. You believe he’s going to be best served playing off the ball?
At 6’0", or really below that, it is difficult for me to see him having that as his primary role when Self has much longer guys available to man the 2-3 spots, like Grimes, Garrett, and Cunliffe (or Newman if he’d possibly return). I had envisioned Moore being insurance if we didn’t get a top PG. Now that we have Dotson, I assumed he’d be the back PG and likely not in the game when Dotson was.
Your comment got me thinking, though, about Self and his preference of having two primary ball handlers in the game together. Assuming Vick is gone, do you see Moore and Dotson starting together?
From what I’ve seen I do think he is best in that role and not as a PG.
I think we see a rotation of Dotson/Grimes/Moore with generally two of them in the game at the same time. When Moore is out there, I think you hide him on the weakest offensive player the other team has. Not only is he short as you say, he just LOOKS tiny, like he should still be in HS.
It’s fine though, Garrett as we have seen is a very good defender and Grimes has all the tools. Cunliffe has the tools as well. Next year the team can still be very good defensively while playing Moore around 20 minutes a game.
If Vick comes back or KU adds Romeo, the minutes for someone aren’t going to be what they were hoping for.
I still think Newman is gone even though he has no business in the NBA. Plus honestly Newman right now is worse than Garrett if you check the numbers. If Newman did stay he might actually find himself pretty low on the totem poll, another reason for him to go if he can get paid somewhere, anywhere.
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A bit off track, but it appears that our Memphis transfers have toned down their offcourt brouhahas. So quiet, I can’t even remember their full names. Were they 5* recruits, coming into Memphis? Ah yes, LAWSONS! Dedric and Cecil?
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@REHawk kj! Interesting note. Norm was filling in for Self on hawktalk last week and Hanni had a lil game where Norm picked a bb players name out of a stocking and then Norm would pick what Christmas gift he’d get them. He picked kj and he chose a Bible because he said the guys said he reads it regularly.
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@Crimsonorblue22 kj! Thanks. I knew that Cecil didn’t sound right, and that he would have preferred to hide behind some initials if indeed Cecil was his moniker. One of my favorite uncles was born Cecil. Folks called him Fess. Regarding that Bible reading, I gave it a twirl back in my middle years. Wife kept attacking me with grievous suspicion, asking what I had done to be so repentant for…
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4*s but Dedric has already shown he is an excellent player and it will be his 4th season out of HS.
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Dedrick is better than any player KU could get at his position. Likely pre-season All-Conference.
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@JayHawkFanToo Strongly agree. Especially with the class being so weak. Only exception was Bagley but he reclassed.
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@JayHawkFanToo That’s the floor. He’ll make a run at B12 POY, imo.
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Absolutely…and he has a good chance of getting it.
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We could be looking at national honors for Dedric. Potential first team AA. Lots of great college posts this year but next year will be slim pickings.
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@ et al,
Frank Mason was really a two guard trying to learn to play point for a full season and a half. And he sort of got the hang of it. Maybe Self is “developing” Moore to be a point.
Further, has Self decided that if two point guards are hard to beat, why not try 3 point guards? Svi was supposed to allow that, but he’s turned into a swing 3-4 type.
I don’t recall a Team starting 3 true PG. If Self had a couple formidable bigs to run with them, the ball handling and weaving could GET AWESOME!!!
Three point guards would really be ideal for the weave.
Add a stretch 4 and a footer and, voila, the IBA BALL created for the 1964 Olympics would finAlly have achieved perfection!!!
Ring time!
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A stretch four like Dedric and a footer like Doke? We can hope right?
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@jaybate-1.0 I alluded to that on another post. In fact, he could do a 4 out next year with 4 guys on the perimeter who either played point guard at high school, or in college. The ball handling next year could be absolutely insane.
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Sorry I missed it. Thx for calling my attention to it. 4 point guards would certainly optimize the quadruple weave we see flashes of. No innovation is out of the question with Self if it builds off his basketball principles and can be executed with sound fundamentals by players he has around at that moment. I chose 3 PGs and a stretch 4, because Self has said so many times that the Stretch 4 is the hardest thing to guard in all of college basketball. The stretch 4 allows a fourth outside shooter, a fourth man in the weave, and all of the double post rotations the High-Low enables. But I trust he would go to a 4 point guard perimeter, if he did not have a stretch 4 and instead found himself with 4 point guards. It is truly a fascinating game for strategy. It is the physical equivalent of chess IMHO. It will never exhaust, or grow old.
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@jaybate-1.0 Dude, KU will be so deep next year that there is bound to be some attrition next season. Guards, bigs, all deep at every spot. Not a bad problem to have considering how short we’ve been last year and this year. But I always hate to see any Jayhawk leave the team.
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I got to see Charlie over a couple of days last summer. He impressed me with his speed with the ball and how quick he changed direction. I am a bit surprised with his turnover numbers as he seemed pretty sure-handed. Of course this was just messing around with his teammates during a kids camp and not what he will see next year year in games.
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@Kubie Cuonzo Martin isn’t much of a coach.
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Agreed, neither is Shaka Smart.
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Check this out : Punky Brewster on a bb court.
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@KUSTEVE not a fan. What the H E double hockey sticks is that mayhem going on. But the stunts he pulled, I’d just flatten his ass on the court.
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@Bwag That’s why i used the word “Punky” to describe him. He’ll cut that out as he matures. Devonte had several instances when he was younger where he bounced the ball of his defender as well, and he turned out pretty good.
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Lulufulu said:
@jaybate-1.0 Dude, KU will be so deep next year that there is bound to be some attrition next season. Guards, bigs, all deep at every spot. Not a bad problem to have considering how short we’ve been last year and this year. But I always hate to see any Jayhawk leave the team.
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Soooooo hope it works out as you expect. But I just have to see it happen once to believe it.
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@KUSTEVE perhaps. The whole environment is ridiculous as well.
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So who is the attrition (transfers)? Not many options other than Mitch and Garrett. 4 current transfers aren’t leaving. 4 recruits. Doke, Vick, Newman, Preston may leave to the NBA. Svi and DG gone as seniors. Garrett’s going to play a lot. Hopefully Mitch will redshirt and not leave. Am I missing any other possible transfer?
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HighEliteMajor said:
So who is the attrition (transfers)? Not many options other than Mitch and Garrett. 4 current transfers aren’t leaving. 4 recruits. Doke, Vick, Newman, Preston may leave to the NBA. Svi and DG gone as seniors. Garrett’s going to play a lot. Hopefully Mitch will redshirt and not leave. Am I missing any other possible transfer?
Maybe they meant after next season. Which, I could see depending on the recruiting class but it’s too far out to project and we also don’t know if Grimes will be OAD (I think he wants to be, like any kid but could go either way depending on how his season goes and he grades at the combine) or who the odd man out will be in the rotation. Especially if Vick comes back or Romeo is added it’s going to be so deep with guards. In that situation we are looking at probably 2 kids that could start at a lot of schools not playing much. What a wild situation to go from so thin to so deep.
After this season like you I don’t see it. Newman and Preston I would put at 0.1% to come back. Even with just two gone there would still be an open roster spot.
