• Yes I know we all thought it might take awhile for Carlton and the team to figure out what to do without Perry. At least we thought he would be a jumping jack rebounder. Maybe he’s not feeling well. When KU plays a small team like MIAA Washburn, not rebounding stands out. Frank Mason is the best rebounder on the team. Bigs should be embarrassed to watch him sky above the rim to grab a rebound with two hand and start the break. You sit on the bench and Svi or Vick go in to play small ball. I’ll gladly eat my words if he gets this fixed.


  • @wrwlumpy Silver lining is if he struggles, he sticks around another year, and gets real good. He has the talent to be a great player, imo. Got to get that head on straight, though.

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  • Agree, - - - - 1000000 % , Lucas , ONE rebound, I realize his early fouling had some to do with this but, - - - Bragg TWO rebounds. we just can’t have that. They will get better we know this, just can’t afford that kind of effort against legit teams. - - - When you figure you get 2 rebounds in 14 minutes, and one rebound in 17 minutes NOT GOOD.

    then on the other side of the spectrum you have Mitch getting Seven rebounds in NINE minutes, & Coleby Six rebounds in ELEVEN minutes & then you have Frank. What? 5 ft 10 - -5 ft 11? - - & he gets TEN, TEN rebounds seriously? We will get better I know this, first game BUT lot’s of work to do - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

  • What this season might look like after last nights game. I agree though, it is way to early for him to not to prove us wrong. I love the kid, he’ll get better. I’ve just read too many articles about “How far we go depends on Carlton Bragg.”


  • I posted before that at this time, Bragg is unproven and really an unknown quantity with a lot of potential; last night did nothing to change that perception.

    I was impressed with Lightfoot. He rebounded well and went to the line often but did not take advantage of the freebies. He reminded me of a green Perry Ellis that kept missing the basket with his spin move and off the backboard shots until one day everything clicked in place (Big 12 Tournament) and he was highly effective from then on. Hopefully Lightfoot will also find the sweet spot and converting close to the basket. He was so active that it seemed like he was on the court lot more than the 9 minutes he actually played.

    Svi looked smooth and finally he seems to be what we had hoped. Jackson and Vick looked good on offense and they are natural scorers that feel conformable on offense but their defense needs work; Vick was faked out badly a couple of times…this cannot happen against the better competition.

  • I just think its hard to judge the statline of an exhibition game. Why lay it on the line, for an exhibition game. The offense did NOT look smooth because a 3yr starter (Ellis), who we ran the whole offense thru, is gone. And also gone is another 3yr starter in Seldon. Bragg looked spotty. Jackson looked spotty, but figured it out.

    Jackson may have summed it up the best: “We usually play against each other in practice & pickup…so now we’re all on the same team, so we’re adjusting…” (paraphrase). A few weeks ago he said also that he thought all these players, so talented, all being on the same team, was something he was floored by.

    Also, 4 guard lineups are not the norm for Self…while they most certainly are the norm for cant-recruit-a-big-but-looks-good-in-a-suit-Jay Wright, who most seasons is forced to run a 4guard offense. So his version may look a little more well-oiled than Billy’s version, especially in this trial initial outing, EACH time with a different post player. Chemistry? What chemistry?! Not yet, folks. Let Billy experiment. He’ll fit the pieces by January. And he’ll scheme & mask for Indy and Dooky, as he is good at that, too.

  • @wrwlumpy

    Playing short, quality teams like Washburn now is just what we need.

    Short teams rebound with their feet. They are all about court position for rebounds.

    Tall teams, like Kansas, try to jump over everyone and put less focus on court position. Washburn completely burned us and showed us how slow we were on our feet.

    This game will be a great learning tool as we move forward. It clearly showed how they smoked us on the boards. Our guys tried to leap over them for rebounds, often drawing over the back fouls, etc.

    Bill has lots of ammunition now to chew some backside and he will get their attention quickly. I’m glad we looked bad now, because we will make big improvements quickly now.

    Lagerald… Wow! I love his athleticism!

    Mitch… going to be a player, big time. Think we might have him for 4 productive years! He had 7 rebounds in 9 PT minutes. And he was on the FT line 9 times… Think about that, he averaged a FT for every minute he played. The guy has his head in the game!

    Udoka will improve quickly. He has decent foot speed but just needs to play more to learn the speed of D1.

    The only thing different I wanted to see is Frank playing the 2 more. He is a volume scorer and it will be hard for him to score from the PG slot in comparison to playing the 2.

    This is a quality Washburn team. They were definitely more prepared than us, but we will get there soon enough!

  • @ralster said:

    The offense did NOT look smooth because a 3yr starter (Ellis), who we ran the whole offense thru, is gone. And also gone is another 3yr starter in Seldon. Bragg looked spotty.

    And 5-year guy Jamari Traylor also gone. This team is lacking an aggressive, havoc-wreaking athletic freak. (Don’t need that type of player all the time, but once in a while you need some power.)

  • @DanR

    Lightfoot is as close as we had last night with 4 offensive rebounds and 9 free throws in 9 minutes.

  • @drgnslayr your response as to why that happened is reasonable, but still hard to fathom that these guys didn’t (supposedly) already know a thing or two about even the basics of rebounding. I hope to see better focus in general going forward - not getting outhustled, sprinting back on defense to avoid giving up layups and not being so careless with the bad passes. None of this has to do with talent, but rather with just deciding to do it. None of our guys are incapable of doing the things I listed.

  • @DanR I disagree. Did we really even run any offense? Not much. It was mostly dribble drive or force feed it into the post.

  • I could honestly see Coleby getting more minutes if LL and Bragg don’t rebound. He looks limited on offense but unless LL improved a ton so is he, although we haven’t seen enough yet to judge LLs offensive improvements. LL 1 rebound in 17 minutes is a joke you figure being his size he could accidently get more, Bragg 2 in 14 minutes slightly better but still laughable, Coleby 6 in 11 minutes is solid. Lets just see how Sunday goes I agree with Self rebounding is how you tell if you played hard, my coach always said rebounding is 10% skill and 90% will and I believe it, I’ve personally out rebounded a guy 6 inches taller bye getting low and boxing out. Size doesn’t matter as much as folks think if you do your work hence Mason with 10 (shortest guy on the court). @HawkChamp the offense was sloppy idk if we ran the high low at all. looked like the NBA drive and kick no ball movement.

  • @wrwlumpy

    After reading Bill’s comments, I discovered at least part of the reason why he is pushing small ball… to motivate Carlton at the 4. He will lose out when we go to small ball.

    Players need to play in games, against other players. It is easy for big guys to grow stagnant from just practicing with each other. This game will be a great tool to help show Carlton how he needs to bring a lot more toughness to the game. Same with Landen. Both were soft as butter in this game.

  • @drgnslayr I also think that goes back to what Josh said about having to get used to not playing against each other.

    On Carlton and Landon, they did not all of a sudden become terrible - something else was clearly going on. Stagnation could indeed be the reason.

  • @drgnslayr

    This game was scheduled more for the new and backup players to show what they can do and less for the veterans to show what we already have seen them do and what we know they can do. You will notice that both Lucas and Graham had pretty forgettable games while backup Vick and Svi as well as newcomer Lightfoot had good outings. To me, the surprise was Bragg whom I had expected to have a big game but was anything but that. Perhaps it was the jitters of starting and the big expectations that did it; it is very early and I am not worried. The offense scored 92 point so it was not too bad; however, the defense was sorely lacking. Knowing how much pride Coach Self takes on playing defense, I am sure it will be fixed and the next game we will see a noticeable difference.

  • @kjayhawks Hell, I’ve been out-rebounded by a girl 6 inches shorter who could box out better than just about any guy I’ve ever played against…

  • @Makeshift A bit of it is bad positioning. About the 38 minute mark (I’m rewatching it on ESPN3), Bragg allows the offensive rebound because he is unexplainably floating around while his man gets between him and the basket, causing the offensive rebound opportunity. Moments that lack mental concentration are the most frustrating.

  • I’ve have always been worried about bragg’s toughness. Maybe it will take more time w/him.

  • Another instance of terrible rebounding positioning at the 41:40 mark. A shot goes up and Bragg runs right under the rim and the ball goes off his fingertips - a missed opportunity and Josh gets a foul because of it. So far, this has everything to do with strategy and not strength.

  • 1:08:23 mark he is not under the basket on the seal off but does not box out correctly and missed the rebound - Self yanks him right after that.

  • Too early to tell, but Bragg may become that player that we love to hate this year. The danger is if he doesn’t score, he won’t provide enough value with the rest of his play to not be a net negative.

    Is it crazy to have a Svi, Vick, Jackson, Lightfoot, Frank/Devonte lineup?

    Coleby looks like he’ll be more ready towards the end of the year.

    I hope the interior rule changes won’t negatively affect Landen too much. That’s another thing to keep an eye on. Will he get the Tarik Black treatment from refs?

    I would love to not have to run our PGs into the ground… But they may be able to take it.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I’m a proponent of small ball, but just find it curious why we are getting around to it now, with this team.

    We have several bigs of a decent quality, but we are only going to run one big in a game? Meanwhile, we have 5 quality perimeter guys to fill 4 spots?

    The math doesn’t add up. I think the 4-guard rotation is Bill’s “toughening box” to get his bigs playing more aggressive.

  • @drgnslayr

    KU has a super tough schedule and needs a few gimmick schemes to confuse the opponents and use under certain conditions; it certainly does not hurt to have a few aces up your sleeve… I guess we will find out soon enough.

  • @drgnslayr I personally would prefer a more permanent four guard lineup - it worked for UConn twice and Nova last year.

    Bill said today in a press conference that guys need to be more aggressive rebounding. The other night, Washburn was definitely the aggressor and looked a lot faster because of it. Its amazing how much better we look when the guys play with a lot of energy and concentration.

    I hope we run some pick and roll plays with Carlton like we did with Perry. Not really surprised we didn’t see it Tuesday - Bill also said today that they really didn’t run any offense. That will definitely keep Indiana and Duke guessing.

  • @Makeshift Yep thats what im saying lol

  • Not judging based off skill or talent, but Buke, Coleby, Lucas, Bragg… it’s like having an NBA front line!

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    At this time of year, we better just be working on the basics. We definitely showed a lack of being able to perform basic anything. We have Indiana and Duke coming around the corner. I don’t think we are ready to learn gimmicks. But… maybe I’m wrong.


    I am thumbs up for building this kind of team, but we don’t have the guard depth to do it this year. We only have 5 guys to run at 4 slots. That means very little rest for them and if anyone gets in foul trouble, or gets hurt…

    Yes… Carlton will be a great pick and roll/pop player!

  • Frank Mason is an absolute rebounding fool. Unbelievable. I looked again at the statsheet above. And he scores 21pts. As we said about Sherron, I will say this with equal respect and belief about Frank: we will go as far as our lead guard will take us. Exactly what happened with Sherron (who was playing injured vs UNI). Pretty much what happened last year vs Nova between Frank’s and Wayne’s 3pt% in that 1 silly game.

    Frank is the alpha on this team. He was last year too. Devonte is the Robin to Frank’s Batman.

    That being said, the most embarrassed 3 people on KU’s roster should be LL, Udoka, and Bragg. Glances at the statsheet provide numerous WTF moments, plenty to spread around. LL not sure how to handle the respect shown him by the immediate double teams. Being the main post presence and learning the timing of passing out of double teams, etc…a whole new chpt to learn. But I think LL will figure it out. Udoka’s rebounding numbers and the 3 fouls-in-3-min are just absolute laffers. Comical entertainment is what the BigDoke is at this moment. But I think he’ll be fine as well. A major reality cheick…there’s a lot more to this game than wagging the “no-no” finger after a block, in Self’s expectations, and the NBA’s expectations. Bragg–> maybe the most disappointing. He’s the high-skill McDAA. He’s got time in system. I called him tough as a frosh, helping us win the WUGs with a broken nose. So maybe, he puts up the dukes when he knows he’s it. No one else. Personally I think he is tougher than Perry. But he does need to show it. It will take the focus off Frank a bit.

    Take home WTF moment of the game: Mitch Lightfoot out-rebounds Udoka+Bragg+Lucas combined. Tom Izzo is laughing at Bill Self’s first exhibition game right now, its as if Billy didnt learn anything from all the asswhuppins Izzo has given Self over the years… (Soft as butter)

  • @ralster

    Spot on. As I have mentioned before, Bragg is still a big unknown. We have seen flashes of his potential here and there but we have yet to see him bring that potential to fruition. He had the most to prove of any player and he did not. I am cautiously optimistic that it was nerves and big expectations that did it but we need to see big improvement from him soon or else he will spend a lot of time riding the pine.

    Same with Udoka, but at least he has the excuse that he is new and very, very young; hopefully he does not become the next Cliff Alexander. We know he is coming back next year so he has some time to acclimate.

    The 3 players that help themselves the most were Svi, who seems to finally have come around and looked smooth and comfortable shooting, Vick who is a natural and fearless scorer but was burned badly a couple of time on defense and Lightfoot, who I chose as my breakout player for KU, and was good and aggressive inside but needs to seriously work on his FT shooting; If you are going to go to the line 9 times, you better make more than 3.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Agree 100%. Hoping for notable improvement in ALL areas, every aspect of KU basketball (not named Mason) against ESU Hornets…

  • @ralster

    Lucas and Graham were way too complacent, in my opinion, and did not play hard because it is assumed they have a starting spot locked, which they probably do…at this time. They need to quit lollygagging and start playing hard or else they will find that Coach Self will not hesitate sitting them down.

    I see a 40+ point win against ESU.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I am expecting a marked improvement as well. Lucas did not all of a sudden become a bad rebounder.

  • @HawkChamp

    Nope. He just did not play with a sense or urgency.

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