Of Defending Hield with Mason, and Officiating
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ESPN pundits were talking about the game today and Seth Greenberg said that when Mason began guarding Buddy, he did an incredible job. He said it sounds stupid to say when Buddy ended up with 46, but Frank was in his grill with fantastic position. The Bulldog did his job. Buddy was just lights out.
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I used to referee quite a bit for pocket money, when I was in college. Little league stuff and adult city league and a few AAU tournament games for K-12 grade age. Never interscholastic, or college stuff.
I have a great respect for referees that are honest, trying to do their best, and being allowed to try to do their best, same as I have for professionals in all field that fit the same criteria.
I have never had any discomfort with refs missing calls occasionally. I did and every ref I ever worked a game with did, too.
There is an art to refereeing a game so that coaches and players can be the best they can be within the rules.
This always sounds odd to persons, when I say this, but referees need the rules as much, if not more than the coaches and the players, need them in order to orchestrate a good contest.
Refs need the limits of the rules set in stone, so that they can focus on interacting with players and coaches in positive, assertive ways that enable coaches and players to concentrate on doing what they do best, rather than on riding refs, countering refs, or scheming to manipulate refs.
Once coaches and players know they can’t manipulate you, then they focus on coaching and playing far more. And when they focus on coaching and playing the game improves sharply.
A ref who is put in the position that many were reputedly admitted to have been put in a few seasons ago, i.e., of using their whistles (and not using them) to modulate games into broadcast windows, is in quick sand.
A ref is not supposed to have to interpret the rules.
He is supposed to have to interpret the play.
Was the play consistent with the rules, or in violations of them?
A ref should not have to (nor should he be given the discretion to) decide which rules should be called under what conditions; this is the slippery slope of all officiating. The refs I used to dread working with most were the ones that claimed to know when to call it looser and when to call it tighter.
Just call it! That’s hard enough.
They invariably slid down into subjectively judging teams and players and into ridiculously inconsistent foul calling and it was their games that play declined into disorder and chaos in. Bad games to watch, bad games to coach and play in, and bad games to try to restore order to.
My kind of ref is one that goes out and stays out of the players ways, listens to brief requests by players and coaches to watch out for this or that, makes some small talk with players and coaches acknowledging how lucky they and he are to be involved in the greatest game ever invented, and makes calls dispassionately and doesn’t dwell on either the missed calls, or the missed perceptions of the calls.
My very favorite referee was a guy who always said to coaches complaining about calls, “Ok, coach, the game’s starting again.” Those were the most powerful words in a refs vocabulary. It was awesome how that little phrase directed coaches on to next. Basketball is a moment to moment activity. It keeps unfolding. You can complain if you want, but you better be a part of its present, rather than hanging back and focusing on what just happened, or you’re going to lose, whether the calls are good, bad, or indifferent. When coaches see that look in your eye that you are starting the game on them, and that you really, REALLY, aren’t listening to their protestations, man does it refocus them in a hurry. No arguing. No debating. No listening. We’re here to referee a game, not a debate. This baby is going to be born with you or without you, Coach. Same with the complaining players. When the ref stays in the moment and keeps the game in the moment, people better think next, or else.
I’m a now kind of guy, when I parent, work, play, or write. I am in the moment even when I am reflecting about the past. The past only has meaning to me as an element of this moment. Stay with me coach, or you will be in a moment is gone, while the game and I are in the only moment you have a chance in.
But how can a referee act in the moment and insist on coaches and players staying in the moment, if he has to decide which rules to call and not call in this moment? Its nonsense. The powers that be in NCAA basketball are probably lawyers and not judges. Lawyers work on billable time and make their livings arguing points. Good for them. But judges decide and keep the trial moving in the moment. Referees are judges of a kind. Like judges, they better know the rules that apply and apply them correctly. The more we shift officiating to situational rule calling, and replays, and re-interpretation, become the substance of officiating, referees lose their most powerful tool for “controlling” a game. “The ball is in play” trumps everything. It makes both coaches and players run to catch up. It makes them think about coaching and officiating rather than about refereeing. A good referee does not want them thinking about him. He wants them thinking about their opponent.
A good referee has great compassion and love for coaches and players. Fans? Not so much. Not dislike. Or contempt. He just knows that fans are homers. They can’t help it and he knows it.
But I love all coaches and players. Heck, much as I bust Scott Drew for not being a very good coach, he is still a coach, and so I love the guy. Coaches teach the game. Coaches find players and help them get better. Coaches stay up late at night trying to figure out how to make one group of boys in shorts put a round ball through a hoop more often than another group of boys in shorts. Coaches don’t go to the office and try to figure out how to destroy cities, or deny health care to millions of persons, or deceive persons into thinking another country needs to be knocked over by killing a bunch of persons. Coaches can be serious pricks, alright, because they do tend to be control freaks, but come on! They are trying to steal possessions, not the assets under recognized by accounting conceits and market perceptions. Coaches run around blowing smoke up the cabooses of kids and their parents about how great the kid is and how good mom’s cooking is. Coaches schmooze with agent runners and look the other way at agents, or hire those agents to be their own agents, so those agents can clip some fees in a year or three. Coaches, the good ones, keep their hands off the co-eds and they help young guys keep from self destructing for a few years. What’s not to love about coaches? Shoot I would have loved refereeing a game with Bob Knight. I would have talked quail hunting with him, and everytime he threw a tant, or got in my face shouting, I would have handed the ball to a kid and put the ball in play and watched him run away coaching the next play. And if he ever grabbed one of his players in my game and shook him around, I would have walked over and said, “I love ya, Bob, and I want you to see my bird dog go on point, but I am as honest as you are and I don’t allow any kids to be roughed up by coaches in the games I officiate. You touch a boy again, and I will throw you and your top assistant out of the game and your guys will take a loss because of you. Now I’m putting the ball in play coach.” And Coach Knight would go rumbling down the sideline to exhort his guys on how to make better wing point entry passes and he would do brilliant things that would make me hold him in awe and he would needle my ass up one side and down the other but not another boy would be grabbed and shaken around. And we would go hunting that off season, and we would needle the shit out of each other, and I would hear some of the greatest stories about basketball one could ever hear.
But in an era when the refs are calling it this way this time of season, and that way that time of season, and this way with this group of teams, and that with that group of teams, well, how could I hold my head up high enough to even look Bob Knight in the eye and say the magic words, the only ones that mean anything at all to him. “I’m as honest as you are, Coach.”
This is why the game has to be cleaned up.
The refs need the rules as much as the players and the coaches.
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@wissoxfan83
That’s some of what I’m saying.
But hacking favored us in the end, despite us probably taking the worst of the hacking.
Why?
Because we appeared to be able to endure more of the hacking without losing a critical player, even after 3 overtimes.
OU lost Woodard.
Self won the gambit.
Self is an odd duck. For all his talk about manning up and not getting pushed around, often what he is really saying is we’ve got to be willing to take more punishment than them. In that game, taking some serious licks advanced us down a path toward OU’s only serious disadvantage against us. They really couldn’t afford to lose Woodard to fouls.
And guess who fouled out!
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Based on points allowed, Devonte and Selden apparently did as good of a job on Hield as Frank did.
What broadcasters and board rats are overlooking about Hield’s performance is that he got 6 assists in addition to his 46 points!!! Six assists on a 46 point night is what is REALLY unusual for a scorer on a tear.
The only way to give any of the KU guys an edge in the job they did on Hield would be to see which of the guys allowed Hield the least assists. If Hield got fewer assists while being guarded by Frank, I would be okay with giving Frank the lion’s share of the credit. Otherwise not.
I have already mentioned the big reason Self went to Mason on Hield. He knew he couldn’t stop Hield with any of his guys, so the real question was, which one of his guys had strong enough ego to take the torching and keep on ticking in the other aspects of his game?
The first half, Devonte was completely unnerved by what Hield did to him. Even as a freshman, I never saw Devonte come unglued by an opponent that way. I am not talking here about Devonte not being able to shut down, or even contain Hield. I am talking about the 6-3 Devonte becoming so demoralized that he could not play decent on offense against whomever OU put on him, and it was often Hield the first half. But once Devonte quit having to guard Hield, Devonte began to get back in the flow of the game, find his rhythm, and get enough confidence back to become a scoring threat again. That was HUGE for KU. KU without Devonte at least gluing the offense together is in real trouble, and really needs him to be able to score to be solid. Pulling Devonte out of that scorching fire of Hield let him get it back together. Score one for Self.
Self accomplished the same thing with Selden, also. By getting the psychologically vulnerable Selden off from guarding the human blow torch of Hield, Selden regained his dignity and composure the second half, also. So: another way of answering why Self put Frank on Hield, was that while Frank’s scoring suffered guarding Hield and he did not hold him any better than Selden and Graham did, Selden and Graham anecdotally appeared to regain their poise by being freed from Hield. That’s a two for one deal, if ever there were one. Frank doesn’t rattle much. He is the most consistent guy on this team. Adversity is a course of the meal that he shrugs off. Selden and Graham are skittish thoroughbreds by comparison. They need the conditions right to play well.
Self read this situation RIGHT!
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@jaybate-1.0 OMFG KU won that game of historic proportions between two teams that can both contend for a National Title in March. It is a huge win for KU. Huge!! This win has conference implications written all over it and its just two games into the season. The second season as Coach Self calls it.
C5 tallied 17 & 17. Traylor played with 'em hangin out. Why did Mick get short leashed?
Even though Devonte’ and Frank are undersized, they both played lights out. Yah, Woodard netting 27 was big but Devonte’ netted 22 of his own and Frank did a hell of a job against Buddy, I thought.
It been since Kevin Durant or Beasley or Griffin since we have had to fight through that kind of offensive production. Buddy is a pro and Mason was in his jock the whole friggin way.
Honestly, I havent read anyone elses posts here yet cuz its taken me this long to digest the game. But I truly believe if KU can win a game against a team like OU that can win it all, that KU can also cut down the nets in April.
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@Blown said:
I was curious as to why Lon didn’t have Hield post Mason up more. It appeared to me he was giving up a lot of height.
BINGO!!!
This was Kruger’s big, enormous, gargantuan, XTRemely LARGE, immense, vast, A. fragillimis sized mistake IMHO.
But this is a mistake that Self ALWAYS makes.
And my guess is this is a mistake that Kruger ALWAYS makes.
That is my way of saying not posting up guards is a philosophical/strategic POV in Okie Ball in this era that borders on the ideological and doctrinaire in the rigidity of their adherence to it.
Now let me be perfectly frank.
NOT POSTING UP SHORT PERIMETER PLAYERS WITH LONG PERIMETER PLAYERS IS STUPID!
I have as big of a bee in my bonnet about this issue, as @HighEliteMajor has had about Self not playing to his three ball strengths in past years.
But where as Self will be a tiny bit flexible about trey balling, when he has 5 players that can pot the triceratop, after a lot of public flagellation for not triggering trifectas, I am quite confident that I will leave this mortal coil and then Lon Kruger and Bill Self will leave this mortal coil without so much as a budge on this issue.
Why should Kruger have posted Hield? To foul out KU’s perimeter players assigned to him before KU fouled out Woodard; that’s why!
Kruger could have had all of Hield’s points plus fouled out most of KU’s short perimeter players, AND upped his over all FG % to 50% and beaten the snot out of KU had he done this. Self would have adjusted, but it just would have meant that Woodard would have scored another ten points and never have fouled out.
Kruger. Should. Have. Posted. Hield. Up.
As sure as the Pope should ex communicate all the pedophiles.
But there just are certain actions that are too traumatizing to the dogma and to those believe in the dogma ever to be taken. Period.
To post up a guard is apparently sacrilegious to these two Okie Ballers.
I don’t know why it is.
Jack Hartman sinned.
Jack Hartman posted Walt Frazier at SIU.
Jack Hartman was a notorious heretic, though.
Jack simply quit recruiting more than one good player for a season.
He found that more than one good player was not really necessary for him to enjoy coaching and go fishing.
So, I guess, Jack Hartman is viewed as one of those gnostic, or hermetic pagan types that early Christians and even mainstream pagans found too unnerving not to exclude.
Self apparently would give up man to man defense before he would post up a guard.
I always harbored a hope and a prayer that Lon was not so rigid, but, alas, he is as orthodox on this as they come.
@Blown, I may not get there with you, but I want you to know; that we as a basketball people are going to get to the promised land of posting perimeter players. I have a dream…
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@madmaxKU Jarmari was partly taken out down low…not saying it was dirty, but he was swept out if I recall correctly.
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@Bwag but no foul called!
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I was disappointed in the officiating, but I think it leveled out by the end of the game. In regards to Mason on hield, I think he did a good job keeping him outta the paint off of drives and staying in front but hield is so much taller he was able to shoot over him. I’m honestly ticked at ESPN, because of the adding of controvery to by show masons steal like that was the only bad call. Gottlieb pulled the same crap. But when duke gets a favorable call all is good and well. This team has to start rebounding better and delevop a inside presence for me to pick them beyond the sweet 16.
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@kjayhawks This is all the inside presence we will get this year, but doing everything else well negates that defficiency, like Uconn in '14 and Duke in '10. Both of those teams played smart, made open shots, made free throws, rebounded well, and played tremendous defense. This team will be fine as long as they focusing on improving the little things.
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@Crimsonorblue22 may be deemed incidental contact that aggravated Traylor being in such a vulnerable position. I’d have to go back and watch again.
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@jaybate-1.0 I disagree. I thought with all you said against Mason and for Hield, Mason did a hell of a job on Hield. You might go back and watch Mason against Hield again. Hield didn’t get much when Mason played that little man defense. He bothered Hield all night. He got into Hield’s head. The only time Hield was able to separate from Mason was when Mason was mugged or cheated. I loved Mason’s defense against Hield. He was the best answer last night.
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@wrwlumpy Yes, yes and yes on Mason, I agree tons with Greenberg on his analysis. Hield was getting really frustrated with Mason. LOVED IT.
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@jaybate-1.0 If Selden would’ve stayed on Hield, Selden would’ve fouled out. This is why Selden came out and Self switched his defensive option on Hield.
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@jaybate-1.0 Post Hield? Post Buddy Freakin’ Hield? Either Hield creates off a screen and makes shots in rhythm or he drives. Buddy Hield is not a post player. He could’ve posted on my 4’ son and wouldn’t make one shot. Hield is improved but not post improved. Kruger didn’t post Hield, because it would be a huge mistake to post him against anyone.
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@Bwag I’m watching the game replayed on cox. Mari did go thru net after the guy was fouled by bg(?) not to the Mari hitting the floor yet.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yep. He goaltended on that play.
I was referencing the block against the backboard when he fell hard. I think his feet were bumped while extended.
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It was an ugly game, but a gut check for KU. I was encouraged. I hope we can win those games that ugly, but win all the same. I really think the MSU game was a kind of prep for this game. Valentine is, in my humble opinion, a better player than Hield. Valentine is a team player and knows when to step it up a notch. This is why MSU has been successful. If Hield watches Valentine, he might become a better player.
BTW…I don’t want to face MSU at all. They’ve been the bane of KU’s success in years past. I don’t know what it is about Izzo. He is Self’s kryptonite.
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I watched the video of Frank deflecting and stealing the in bounds pass. It may go on all the time, but his hand was right on the ball. No wonder he was able to steal it. I would not be surprised that this practice gets some extra attention now. I’m not sure about the rules, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the ref could allow another inbounds play if you do what Frank did. Also, if we want to continue to use that technique…Frank probably shouldn’t have acknowledged that he moved up to the line after the ref handed the ball over.
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@Bwag I know, someone said earlier about the goal tending. They didn’t show it in AFH. I don’t know how anyone can listen to these guys. Called diallo dillo at the beginning.
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I watched the video of Mason deflecting Hield’s in bound pass. This may be a common occurrence but Frank’s hand was right on the ball as Hield extended his arms. You can see how it would be easy to deflect the pass. I would not be surprised if this tactic gets some scrutiny now. I would imagine that the ref could give them a chance to re-do the inbound pass in these circumstances. If we like using this tactic (stepping next to the line after the opponent takes the ball from the ref), Frank probably shouldn’t have called attention to what he did.
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@jaybate-1.0 On your point about posting guards I will add some anecdotal evidence. Late in the second half (maybe overtime) Buddy posted Mason on his own, dribbling into it and backing him down. Mason played great defense, forced a tough shot but the refs called a foul. Mason stomped around furious because it looked like pretty good defense. But this does suggest that had Hield posted a few more times, we might have lost Frank.
Second, I have now witnessed Self run a play 4 or 5 times this season (that I have noticed) that isolates Selden on the low block, posting a smaller guard. There was even one this game (it didn’t work). In previous games this has had varying results. One easy layup that I can remember, another turn around jumper that went in, and a few times where the ball never made it to him, or he passed out after receiving it.
So I wouldn’t say never!
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Thank you, thank you, thank you for calling my attention to Selden being posted!!! That makes my day!!!
This is what is so great about this board. Not just the debates but the assists like yours just now. No one sees everything.
Rock Chalk!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 You are welcome! For future reference, these instances are most common right after halftime, and occasionally out of time outs. They are mostly one offs and haven’t seemed to be repeated in the half even if they were successful.
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Agreed. A coach I knew used to coach this tactic AND coach the counter tactic of pausing and telling the ref the defensive player is touching the ball or line, or both. The ref has to intervene. The counter counter is the offensive player was crowding the sideline to close and stepped on the line. And so on.
Refs get the game.
Good refs iterate between watching feet and hands.
It looked to me like Frank played it perfectly.
Here is how it appeared to me he did it, but I haven’t studied replays.
He is short and a great leaper with decent arm length for his height.
His feet were back far enough.
He has great anticipation as he shows on every rebound.
He positioned feet so at the top of the jump with arms at 45 degrees (instead of straight up) his hands were near the line.
He jumped extra high.
He knew how far to reach.
Hield was 6-6 so the ref was not expecting a block.
Hield was crowding the line unwisely, thinking he was taller.
Frank jumped AND REACHED OUT.
Ball tipped at line.
Tie goes to David, not Goliath.
Ask Wilt Chamberlain about that issue, when we all get to heaven.
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Here is the fist block by Jamari; hopefully the link works.
Here is the second where he hit the ground hard
