The truth about Paralysis by analysis
First understand all true Jayhawk fans love Coach.
Here is the problem. Coach has recruited a team that runs and guns. They play fast they shoot midrange jumpers. They rain shots from three land. They desire to harass you on the defense side of the ball. They want to push the ball when there is no reason to push the ball. They want to take the open shots. They want to run and run and run and run.
Coach wants to slow down the game. Coach wants to play great defense. Coach wants to run the shot clock down. Coach wants the first or second pass to go inside. Coach would rather see a big score a 2 or 3 foot contested two, than an easy three. Coach would rather see a game played and won in the 60’s than to see a blow out.
The real problem is Coach recruited a team that can’t play his style of game. Coach has nobody to blame but himself.
If Coach forces his will KU maybe wins another Conference Championship, and bows out in the second or third round of the tournament.
If Coach embraces his current team and plays to their strength. A Conference Championship is a giving, and at the very least a final 4 run happens. Yet my gut says KU and coach cut down the big nets.
I am afraid that if Self continues on this path this year could very well be a repeat of last year and it could be another March sadness for KU fans.
Self needs to change. After WUG he gave some hope. After winning Maui things were looking bright but the outcome of the last game and his post game comments are worrisome.
Only KU fans have so much doom and gloom after a win! Predicting a 2nd round loss in December for a team whose only loss is to the soon to be number one team in the country on a neutral court after controlling the majority of the game is silly.
It’s still very early. This team has shown so far they can win easily against decent teams when the play and shoot well. The can hang around with good to great teams even if they play poorly. And they can win at home against a bad team when their best scoring guard gets into foul trouble and the best scoring big is in la la land.
We still have a LOT to learn about this team. Especially as C5 starts to become CD. Truth is, it is December and we still know very little. And every other team with hopes and dreams is in about the same boat.
Benshawks Did this win leave a good taste in your mouth? It certainly did not for me. And I am trying to highlight the areas that are not new with our coach. One can sugar coat the win all day long but the problems with the playing style and PT are crystal clear. What’s also mind boggling are the comments made by the coach after the win in how he was happy in the way the team played. I guess I should not be surprised after what seems to be a trend with this coach.
I am only hoping that the changes can be made before a much anticipated NC type season is lost.
@benshawks08 If you don’t know history, you tend to repeat it. Self is in danger of that and he probably doesn’t realize it. Pounding the ball inside and a slow, grind it out game is not who this team is.
Once again, when this team plays fast and outside in, only Kentucky has the potential to beat them.
What is there really to learn with this team? This is basically the same team from last year, with the exception of Diallo and Bragg. Yet we already have seen they’ll be riding the pine when the game is on the line.
I don’t think you quite understand where I’m coming from? I totally believe this team has what it takes to win both a conference championship and a National championship. I’ll take it a step further and say this team could become one of the all time greats. This team can flat out shoot. The team isn’t the problem.
Coach has to decide if he is going to play to his teams strength or force his high/low on a team that struggles every time they run it. All we have to do is rewind the clock to last year. It’s not a mystery and there really is nothing to learn.
This team plays best when they run and gun. This team struggles when trying to play the high/low. The numbers don’t lie.
@DoubleDD exactly. How far they go is up to Coach.
@DoubleDD I don’t think that Bill Self can possibly be as dumb as you make him out to be. There must be only one answer. Bill Self is actually a double agent. He is actively undermining the KU team. You would be a hero of major proportions if you could find out who is paying him or who is blackmailing him.
DoubleDD Banned last edited by DoubleDD
Coach is not a dumb person by any means. It’s like you, like me or anybody we have a certain way of doing things. Yet even if someone shows a better way we tend want to stick you our way.
Coach maybe a legend in the making yet he is still human. and not is immune to his human nature.
Coach cut his teeth on the High/low. He has won with the high/low. He’s not going to let go of the high/low very easily. It’s all he’s ever known.
Think about it if fans average humans beings that don’t attend practices, and spend no time in the gym with the players can figure out what your trying to do on offense. Can come to the conclusion you don’t have the players to run it. What do you think an opposing Coach knows and is thinking?
What is there really to learn with this team? This is basically the same team from last year, with the exception of Diallo and Bragg.
…yes, but you left out a big factor, one additional year of experience and one WUG tournament to get ready. Even without Bragg and Diallo, this is NOT the same team from last year…not even close…
Well doesn’t that kind of land into my point? We know what this team can do when coach lets them run and gun. We also know how bad this team struggles when coach tries to slow down the game and run his high/low.
I think this KU team can be awesome. Question is will coach play to their strengths?
One question, and I assure you is not meant in bad way…what makes you think that Coach Self is doing it wrong and that you know more than he does? Don’t you think that a coach, one who is universally consider to be one of the top active coaches in college BBall, would know more about the strengths and weaknesses of his own team? Like I said…just curious on your rationale…
justanotherfan last edited by
It’s all about strengths and weaknesses. Coach Self has some definite strengths that make him a top notch coach. His preparation, ability to condition, instilling toughness, defensive mindset and instilling unselfishness, along with his ability to recruit make him a top college coach.
He only has a couple of real weaknesses, honestly. He’s stubborn, but that’s not really a weakness when you consider that to be successful in his profession, he has to stick to what he’s doing.
His real weaknesses are:
- Reliance on experience over talent
- Reliance on post scoring
That’s really it when it comes to Coach Self’s weaknesses. I don’t truly believe that he tightens up in big games. I think that’s more a function of him relying on potentially less talented players in big spots, asking them to play above their heads sometimes.
Offensively, he wants to play inside out. When he had Wayne Simien, Darrell Arthur, the Morris twins, TRob, etc. that was not a problem. It’s a problem now because he doesn’t have a first round draft pick occupying the low block. If KU had Ben Simmons or Ivan Rabb, probably the two best interior scorers among this year’s freshmen, on the block, that wouldn’t be an issue. But since he doesn’t have that, he should adapt, but this is where being stubborn hurts him a bit.
It’s not that Self doesn’t know what he’s doing. It’s that this team is potentially a tremendous team, but the makeup of this team exposes his weaknesses (much like last year) in ways that are dangerous for a deep March run.
You keep saying that Coach Self tries to slow down the game. Where do you think KU ranks in tempo in the Big 12 and among all teams?
DoubleDD Banned last edited by DoubleDD
OK Do you think coach is letting KU play like he did in the WUG? Do you think coach let KU play in the MSU game? Do you think Coach let KU play in the Harvard game? NO in both these games coach reverted back to his High/low. Which by the way were the lowest output on offense for the season.
Come on I’ve explained my position very clearly. You must have an axe to grind.
Perception and reality are two different things and I have the numbers to prove it.
According to this source, surprise, surprise KU is ranked #1 in tempo in the Big 12 and #17 overall, out of 351 teams in Division I. It must be playing plenty fast, don’t you think.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
I just watched hawk talk on twc-sorry @JayHawkFanToo, he did a good job of explaining the highly ranked players coming in and earning their way.
You just had to rub it in…:)
justanotherfan last edited by
Our tempo skews because we played really fast (and really well) in our wins against Chaminade Northern Colorado, Loyola and even UCLA. However, Coach Self has indicated that he wants to slow the pace down. This team is designed to play fast. They will be at their best playing fast, which is why they run 2 PGs out there for a bulk of the minutes. This team should play at a very quick pace.
We were playing fast against Harvard. In the first half, we had 37 possessions, including two periods between TV timeouts where we got in 9 possessions (I don’t count offensive rebounds as a new possession). In the second half, we started out with 16 possessions before the second TV timeout. After that point, we had 17 total possessions before Harvard started fouling with less than a minute to go. We were on pace for 39 or 40 second half possessions against Harvard. We finished with 33. We slowed down.
We can play with tempo. We play well when we play with tempo. But somehow, when the game got close, rather than do what we do best (i.e. play with tempo) we throttled down and played half court.
We could have (and should have) run Harvard off the floor with pace. They were not ready to go up and down with us. Instead, we got drug into a rock fight. It was 30-16 at the under 8 timeout in the first half. We had already gotten 24 possessions in the game and we were playing well. Harvard was on the ropes. We had 13 possessions the rest of the half (should have gotten 15 or 16). When we should have been delivering the knock out blow, we slowed down and let them catch their breath.
We have complained the last couple of years about a lack of killer instinct among the players. This game should have been blown open, but it wasn’t. That’s an issue for me because that will matter when we play OU, ISU, UK and other stronger teams.
@justanotherfan You do realize that when KU plays a game that there is another team on the court whose primary concern is to stop us from doing what we want. In the Harvard game they committed numerous turnovers in the first half. Some of that was because of our defense and some of it was to to poor decision making by Harvard. They tightened up their play in the second half. Some of that had to do with our defense and some due to the fact that Harvard does have a coach who probably emphasized taking care of the ball.
It is turnovers and defensive rebounds that trigger a faster pace. We all know what happened as far as rebounding is concerned.
Tonight we play a team that runs an offense that is designed to slow down the pace. That is different that what UCLA and others that we have played run. You stated that this is a team that is designed to play fast. Who do you think designed the team?
Where did you see Self indicate that he wants to slow down the pace? I haven’t heard that in any of the interviews nor in articles quoting him.