Who Plays Guard When Frank, or Devonte Are Injured and What Style of Play Will KU Default To?

  • If I take the quotes coming out of Self’s and Devonte’s mouths seriously (something that is hard to do given Self’s tendency for blowing smoke this time of year), Frank and Devonte are going to be playing a lot together with Wayne at the 3.

    So: since injuries often happen over the course of a season, especially when starters play 30-35 MPG against the good teams, who will step up and play the small guard roll played by Frank, or Devonte?

    Since both are going to be frequent ball handlers, whoever replaces either will have to be a frequent ball handler, OR the team will have to default to a single ball handler offense.

    It seems pretty clear that Svi is the only likely “frequent ball hander” type on the bench this season, unless Self defaults to Evan Manning, which seems rather unlikely.

    So: that raises a follow up question–does anyone think Svi is ready to be that second frequent ball handler, or do they think Self will default to a “one ball handler” attack?

    I can see Svi maybe filling the role, but then who would back him up as a frequent ball handler? This is the problem I see with the two ball handler offense. It can’t be sustained during injuries to either Frank, or Devonte, even if Svi can play the role, because Svi would have no backup, and so that means Self has to teach the team two basic schemes to be ready for such an eventuality.

    But what will the second scheme be?


    Or something else?

  • Banned


    You know I’m thinking the Hot Hand approach. HCBS is a system guy but I’m thinking or feeling he got a taste of letting his players play in the WUG’s. I could see HCBS loosening the reins a bit this year, and going with the hot hand.

    At least I’m hoping.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Svi is good enough, and Lagerald Vick and Selden would be used before Evan Manning would should either go down with injury.

  • @jaybate-1.0 The scheme that is currently underway is classified under the B.I.A. jurisdiction. But, I hear it involves getting Nic Moore from SMU.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    6-5 freshman Vick as a second, short, ball-handling PG? Hmmm. That’s my point. Vick seems a very good, but very young shooting guard, but not another natural point guard. Vick would necessitate a one PG offensive scheme, wouldn’t he? Yes, he would.

    And that would lead to a crisis of “who we are”–a two PG first string and a one PG second string; that seems UnSelfian.

    I would like this sort of flexibility in attack–of who we are.

    But Bill Self?

    Not so far in his career that I recall.

    Bill is flexible in matching up, but not in “who we are.”


    TO: Assistant Deputy Vice Rear Admiral @Lulufulu

    FROM: jaybate 1.0, director/janitor

    RE: BIA jurisdiction

    The BIA talking point in all jurisdictional issues is: we can neither confirm, nor deny, that we can neither confirm, nor deny, the BIA has jurisdiction. That is all.

  • @jaybate-1.0 I retain plausible deniability at all times.

  • @Lulufulu

    The BIA even requires that all case officers retain plausible deniability about plausible deniability.


  • @jaybate-1.0 Your hypothetical situation was who would fill the secondary ball handling role should Mason or Graham go down with injury. KU would go back to the one primary ball handler system and we’d see a combination of Svi, Vick, and Selden fill the Selden rile last year because there wouldn’t be an option.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10


    So, the question is: why play in a way in the first place that requires you to change over in mid stream for a significantly likely scenario? Especially when you could keep a single ball handler offense two deep and so fresh all the time, rather than constantly have to shift gears between a one and two ball-handler offense, AND not have to switch out of “who you are” in the event of a significant injury to Mason, or Graham?

    This just does not make much sense, unless Devonte is just head and shoulders better than Svi and Vick at all aspects of the game. And if this were the case, then what in the world will we do even just when we substitute, much less when an injury occurs to Mason, or Graham?

    Something does not compute here.

    Graham has emphasized in interviews that there will be no fall off in play this season after substitutions.

    Self has emphasized he wants to play two small guards.

    If there were no fall off in play after substitutions, that implies one of the following:

    a) Vick and Svi are capable primary ball handlers (unlikely);

    b.) Self is going to switch between one and two primary ball handler offenses (something he has not been very keen on in the past);

    c.) Graham is exaggerating and Self is fibbing.


    This will be interesting.

  • @jaybate-1.0 I think you’re over thinking this one and getting way ahead of yourself here. Mason has been very durable and the the only regular season games Graham has missed was because a 300 lb. player stepped on his heel.

    Playing Mason and Graham together goves KU the best chance to win a national title this year. If something happens, then they can adapt to the new situation. KU has a pretty good history in regards to injuries because of Hudy.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 @jaybate-1.0 over thinking?

  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    Ah, yes, the old “over thinking” rhetorical device, when a fallacy in one’s reasoning surfaces.

    The logical response to THAT is of course…

    @Texas-Hawk-10, you are obviously “under thinking” this one!


  • @jaybate-1.0 You are over thinking this one because we all already know the answer because of Self’s history. Once he decides on something, he’s going to make it happen come hell or high water. Self has decided on two ball handlers this year and should one go down, Self’s gonna plug the next guy in and run the same stuff. He’ll adapt the personnel he has to the system, but he won’t adapt the system to the personnel and there’s 15 years of proof on that.

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 under thinking this one…again

  • @jaybate-1.0 ha ha!

  • No 2/three ways about it, if Mason or Graham goes down to injury, Self will run Hunter Mick at the 2. Or, rather, make that 2/five ways about it. (Supra-overthinking, outside the box.)

  • I would add this … I think that Self runs his same system, but just with two ball handlers. What I mean is that he believes his system functions best with two ball handlers in the game. I question whether he is actually adapting his system to the use of two ball handers.

    I think this goes to @jaybate-1.0’s inquiry – why focus your system on something that could potentially collapse with a stubbed toe?

    That does not make sense. Thus I don’t think that’s what we’ll see.

    The tweaks to Self’s system, I believe, will not be reliant on having two point guard quality ball handers in the game. We saw a different style of play, to some degree, at the WUGs. Playing faster is the one element that can compromised, though, by pedestrian ball handling.

    This comes down then to whether Svi is a competent second ball handler. Is he a D-1 PG quality? I don’t think so. But he is pretty slick.

    One thing Svi does really well is pass off the dribble. We’ll see that more this season. Watch for that.

    Will Mason, Graham and Svi match Chalmers, Robinson, and Collins from a ball handling stand point? No. But it might be in the ball park.

    We will really see Self’s commitment to ball handling if, as @Texas-Hawk-10 mentioned in a post a few days ago, we always have two of the three ball handlers on the floor at the same time (Mason/Graham/Svi).

    If we see Self playing Greene and Selden together regularly (or Vick with one of the two), we’ll know the two ball handlers on the floor thing was baloney.

    Before last season, Self also talked of playing small. He didn’t do it. I called Hawk Talk last November and asked Self if playing small was still in the mix; he said that with CF leaving, probably not so much. This tells me that Self’s comments on what’s best, is many times personnel driven. It may be “best” next season to play two quick post players – maybe because our personnel matches. Or it may be that Self will say we function best with a true center type – because our personnel matches.

    I just think Svi is the key player this season. His diverse skill set will propel Kansas to a place it could not be without him. He is terrific with the ball in his hands. We saw the glimpse last season. In a short time, we’ll get a better look.

  • @HighEliteMajor

    You nailed it.

  • @REHawk

    Way to go, Coach. Way to punch a hole in that cheek with a well placed tongue.

    Still and all, over thinking in thinking is always better than under thinking, because u can correct overthinking before you act. You discover you thought too much by definition by thinking too much.

    Under thinking always leads to acting without knowing you didn’t think enough to discover what you didn’t know you didn’t know.

    Of course in an ideal world we would neither think too much, nor too little, but just the right amount!

    Would that we thought in an ideal world.💫


Log in to reply