I THOUGHT OUR GUYS COMPETED THEIR BUTTS OFF. I'M PROUD OF OUR GUYS. Bill Self
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It’s kind of funny. I, like most of you wasn’t expecting too much from our team. Mentally I was prepared to lose.
And then for the 2nd time in a few weeks we let a kid go coast to coast (I know Staten travelled) right to the hoop and we lose and I was upset by it.
@HighEliteMajor is right. Some say who cares if we lose in the conference tourney? We’re Kansas, we want to win, expect to win, should win any game we play. Maybe for a banged up team fewer games between now and the dance might give us time to heal up, but it might also lead to us stagnating.
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We run our regular stuff, get about the same production out of our 4/5 spot as if Cliff & Perry were in there. Hardly any plays run for 3pt shots. And we lose a tight game. This is pretty much what I’m afraid we’ll see in the second round of the tournament.
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@wrwlumpy Yep. Me too. They fought hard. They are a tough, tough bunch. Reminds me of the type that the '12 team had. Minus the experience.
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Belmont upset Murray St yesterday to get an automatic bid. Belmont will be a 14 or 15 seed depending on what we end up with…
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That’s right. Jamari isn’t pulling his weight on the glass. It isn’t like he doesn’t try, he just needs to be coached on the “how to.”
There is no reason we can’t be one of the BETTER REBOUNDING TEAMS from here on out, regardless what bigs we have available.
Rebounding has only a bit to do with height and girth. It is mostly about attitude and technique.
It is little wonder that a team like WVU is at the top of the nation in offensive rebounds. Huggy is a tough nut, and he teaches toughness to his guys. They go after the ball and they know how to do it. And they do it WITHOUT SIZE.
It really wouldn’t take much to have our guys compete just as hard.
All we really need is for the following guys to step up and learn a little technique and then start applying TOUGHNESS! And have one of the new identities of this team be REBOUNDING and TOUGHNESS! This should be a key in BAD BALL!
I’m talking about Jamari and Wayne. And it just so happens these guys have the best bodies to BATTLE FOR BOARDS! Funny, how both get so few rebounds. Both of these guys lack many other skills in the game, too… and the rebounding is actually one of the easier skills to learn and improve your stat line. This is especially important if you hope to play ball after KU.
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@drgnslayr Self preaches toughness too, and you’d think rebounding technique would be a point of emphasis for him from day 1. It’s odd that Jamari doesn’t have better technique. He seems to have the right attitude, and with his body type to go with it, he should be a rebounding machine. But he’s not. Self obviously favors him, but he isn’t the rebounder he should be. He’s been here long enough and should have gotten proper instruction. I really don’t get it.
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I’ve been very negative on our assistant coaches lately. This is a job for an assistant coach. I’d like to know what each one of these guys bring to the table. The lack of very basic skills has really hurt this team. It also hurts each one of these guys as they seek to extend to a professional career in basketball later. We have plenty of athleticism… but you can’t make it in ball with just that, or with just one or two refined skills. Brannen is a good example there. He is a spot on shooter ONLY! If he moves his feet or has to dribble his shooting percentage drops almost to zero! That is amazing. He has spent a lifetime of drilling in only “catch and shoot.” Real life game requires a lot more. Players have to create their own offense. Shooters have to create their own shot. I believe this is part of why Self calls our perimeter game “fool’s gold.” Brannen is easy to neutralize. And in March, even if we work on perimeter set offense, won’t his shots be contested? The brief period of him receiving the ball on a golden pillow is done.
I’m not counting on seeing lots of improvements on the basics from now through March… but I’ve been very happy with this team stepping up and playing tough. That is one thing Self (himself) can teach this team.
I say that but then I have to give a thumbs up for many of our guys boxing out yesterday on the boards. And there were a couple of good shot fakes used in this game that really paid off! Jamari, of all people, had a great shot fake in the paint that allowed him to shoot directly over someone and score. If I’m not mistaken… didn’t he even get an “and-1” out of it?
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@drgnslayr Jamari has certainly stepped up his offense the last 2 days, which has been wonderful to see. Scored double-figures in both games, following 15 games with single digits (including 5 goose eggs). But boxing out isn’t something he seems to have figured out, although as you said many others certainly have.
Your point about our assistant coaches is interesting. The strength of our coaching staff was routinely praised a few years ago. Now Roberts and Howard have replaced Manning and Dooley and you don’t hear the same sorts of things. I haven’t heard anything negative either, but both Manning and Dooley used to receive high praise from many circles for their instruction and savvy.
But again, players are learning. Embiid’s progress last year was beautiful to watch, to see fundamental mistakes early in the season that would disappear and never return after a single game. It was remarkable how quickly he picked things up. Same coaching staff. Maybe it IS just differences between players?
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@tundrahok I think a lot of it is the programs they come from, bb IQ to hard work. Cliff was in a boot this past summer too.
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True…
But was that because of our coaches that Embiid improved? Or that fact that he spent most of his extra hours studying post players like Olajuwon? No offense to Snacks or Roberts… what does these guys know about play of a 5? Especially at the level of an Embiid? I think most of Embiid’s improvements were self-taught. JoJo is an intelligent man who has a high-degree of survival instincts. He’s capable of learning quite a bit on his own. And news came out constantly about him studying other great 5s.
I’m not going to credit our assistant coaches, just like I’m not going to credit Calipari’s assistant coaches for teaching the unibrow.
Jamari is a guy who didn’t grow up with basketball. He is a late bloomer and in many ways the game doesn’t come naturally for him. He has had to fight for every inch of his real estate. BTW… I really respect that about him and know that is why he is definitely one of Self’s all-time favorite players. Self will shed tears when BamBam graduates… I have no doubt about that.
But he has been around Jayhawk basketball for many years now, and he still doesn’t know the basics on rebounding! That is just astonishing! Very much unacceptable! He is a big, strong piece of clay just waiting to learn. Someone should teach him! There is no excuse!
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@drgnslayr I agree, Embiid was a savant. He should get most of the credit for his progress. But you’re right, this Jamari’s 4th year at KU. Regardless of his late start in basketball, something isn’t right that he hasn’t picked up rebounding by now.
Cliff’s progress has also been disappointing @Crimsonorblue22 but I’ll give him a break because he’s a freshman. Maybe a slow freshman, or a distracted freshman, but pretty young nonetheless.
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I think the issue with Cliff is that too many people overestimated his skill level coming in. Talk about a piece of clay! He is just reaching the level of clay that can be molded. He arrived in Lawrence as a clod! No offense to Cliff… I like the big guy. But facts are facts.
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@drgnslayr I fully respect the jobs our coaches do, Embiid didn’t just improve by watching tape. Who sets that up for him and then goes over it w/him? Didn’t coach t win the best asst last year or before? Cliff is also a young player, didn’t he start in 8 th grade? I know Mari’s faults, but if all players play w/his heart we would win more games! Yell at me now! I don’t care. Coaches love guys that give up their bodies for the team.
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@drgnslayr Cliff has had opportunities though, and has shown flashes of his potential. But too often he stands around and seems clueless. His clay seems to be taking awhile to cure (does clay cure? I probably screwed up the metaphor, but you get the point!). But I like him too, and he is young and has plenty of time to figure it out (if his family hasn’t screwed up his opportunity).
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@Crimsonorblue22 Sure coaches love him. I do too. I just wish they would teach him how to rebound
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@tundrahok I hope so too!
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@drgnslayr Why are you bashing Jamari? He could have easily gotten credit for 3 more rebounds. Instead of grabbing a rebounding he slapped the ball forward to Svi. He had another rebound in his hand, but the OU player was laying half in and out of bounds causing the ref to blow the whistle. He also grabbed a rebound at the same time as Mason III and released the ball to the point guard. That’s 3 boards right there, and this all happened in the first 7 minutes of the game. You say he needs to be coached up? Really? What I saw yesterday when I watched the game, and then I watched it a second time based on your comments, was a player that played his heart out and has plenty of “Basketball IQ”. Jamari is often called on to set screens at the foul line for the guards. He is also called upon to fall back when the guards penetrate to the basket to prevent the opponent from getting a run out. When he is on the boards he attacks and gives maximum effort. He posted 12 points, 2 boards, 2 blocks, and a steal yesterday. He also fouled out attempting to block a shot. He guarded OU’s big man Tyshawn Thomas and held him to 13 points and 6 rebounds. He did a phenomenal job keeping him off the glass. Thomas is 6’8" 240 and Jamari Traylor is 6’8" 220. He was given the assignment of guarding their big man and not Lucas or Mickelson. You are one of my favorite posters, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
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@KansasComet great stuff!! Eye test!!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Thanks. Sometimes the game can be more than the box score. Speaking of box score he was also 5-6 from the field and 2-2 from the free throw line. Traylor balled!!!
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I’m not bashing Jamari. Simply stating he needs help on his fundamentals. Go back to the WVU game and the post from Jesse. This clarifies my post here. Jesse posted clips showing Jamari over-running the rim on rebounds… a true CRIME in fundamentals!
Jamari is easily one of my favorite players, mostly because he hustles. But there is no way he comes close to getting the results he should have with the energy level he expends in a game. That is a crime! And it should be pointed out… more for his sake. Maybe you want to credit him with 3 more rebounds… fine… that still doesn’t show him leading this team in rebounds when he clearly hustles more than anyone else on our team!
It does a disservice to players to not point out the help they need. This is crucial for him to maximize results for the effort he puts into the game, not only for Kansas basketball, but so this kid can build a resume for when he leaves Kansas.
I’ll state it again… Jamari needs help with fundamentals. His basketball IQ is lacking! Here is another example of that… yesterday… his team needed him and he committed his 3rd and 4th foul without a second running off the clock! I’m not bashing Jamari for that, just pointing to the obvious where he needs work. His rebounding needs work, too. That is an easy area for him to master. He can become every bit the rebounder TRob was if he is coached properly. He has the motor and the will… just needs to add the skill!
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Here is the ultimate stat concerning Jamari’s rebounding.
He is an “energy guy.” So was Kevin Young… a guy 30 lbs of muscle lighter than Jamari. Plus… Kevin had to fight for his rebounds much harder against his own teammates… like when we had a real 5… Jeff Withey… 8.5 RPG.
Kevin Young… RPG: 7.8
Jamari Traylor… RPG: 3.7
I’m guessing they played about the same minutes per game… around 20.
Jamari is not getting the stats he deserves. With his hustle and muscle he should be getting every bit the stats KY got.
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@KansasComet @drgnslayr Maybe we can split the difference on this one. Jamari plays with a lot of heart and he is a bit undersized compared to some of the guys he has to guard. Yesterday, he was a major contributor on offense in the second half. But I respectfully disagree with @KansasComet on the defensive end. While he “held” Thomas to 13 and 6, Thomas actually averages 11 and 6. And, he got beat badly by Thomas a couple times. I don’t know about not getting credit for 3 RBs, but he was officially credited with just 2. More importantly, in the context of yesterday’s game, Oklahoma had their season high in ORs - 18. 13 of those were in the 2nd half, when Jamari was on the floor for a few more minutes than in the first half. We dominated the boards, esp. the defensive glass in the first half when we had an unusual line-up - Hunter and Landon playing together for multiple minutes.
The fact is that Jamari averages just 2 DRs per game (actually a tad under that) - on a per minute basis, his rebounding rate exceeds only that of Wayne and Devonte - he is well behind the other bigs and wings - half the rate of Kelly, and even behind Graham. To your point @KansasComet, it’s not lack of effort. But the facts are the facts. His production on the glass is consistently less than one would expect - or needs out of a front court position. I agree here with @drgnslayr that it’s a fundamental skill that he hasn’t been coached-up on. Not really putting the blame on him. This is where we miss Manning.
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@DCHawker I get your point. My point is this. There is no way he can dominate on the boards, if he is nowhere near the basket. Jamari spends the majority of his time away from the basket. He is setting screens and boxing out defenders. His role on the team does not allow him to hang around the basket and collect rebounds.
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@drgnslayr I believe Jamari Traylor is playing exactly the way he has been coached to play. He does not take plays off, is constantly in motion, and contributes despite not being one of the top 7 options on this team. I think his “Basketball IQ” is fine. He fits Coach Self’s system.
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“This is where we miss Manning.”
Amen to that!
I’m not blaming Jamari for anything. He’s a guy that brings total heart to the game. My blame is on our assistant coaches. They are not holding up to their responsibilities. Jamari is a muscular post player and his rebounding stats just plain stink. That isn’t doing him any favors when he leaves Kansas looking to earn a living with hoops. This is a crime, and it is a crime committed by our assistant coaches. Jamari is the victim!
Rebounding is definitely something expected out of Jamari. Even if he is out setting high ball screens (just on offense)… his rebounding numbers are the same as 5’11" Frank Mason… a guy who is even set out further from the basket, and has the responsibility to get back on defense to stop run outs.
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@drgnslayr What exactly would you coach him up on if you had time with him. Maybe I am missing something?
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He isn’t sealing off the the boards in the low post. And he charges in to get rebounds, but he needs to pull back with his body on a man to fight for rebound space. He NEVER does this. The technique of rebounding is to carve out rebounding space between you and the goal. He usually over-shoots himself and gets too far under the goal, or he just doesn’t leverage himself to get in between himself and an opponent, then “box out”… meaning… broaden stance, bend knees, extend arms out to block off an opponent from coming in around him.
We had several Jayhawks doing a pretty good job of this yesterday. Landen, easily, has the best fundamentals of our post players, even better than Perry. He did a great job of boxing out. Hunter did okay, too. Kelly was so-so but he brought a lot of hustle with him and he has freakishly great hands and hand/eye speed and coordination. Man can that guy swipe balls!
None of this is Jamari’s fault. He is a victim in this. He deserves to make a good living in basketball when he leaves Kansas. He is an outstanding athlete, has an excellent build for the game, incredible heart and hustle. His rebounding stats is not a fair indication of what his capabilities are… but stats represent facts, especially about execution. And he really has a BURNING DESIRE to help his team! He would LOVE to snag 10 rpg, and he has what it takes to do it! Just needs to be coached up.
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@drgnslayr Thanks. I can see what you mean by he can overrun the ball sometime. He may be a victim of having such a great motor. I know the mistake I made when I first saw him was thinking he could be the next T-Rob. That probably won’t happen. I love the way he has improved on the offensive end lately. As far as after his career at KU, there is a lot of money to be made overseas playing basketball. 6 to 7 figures is nothing to sneeze at. I believe he will receive a strong endorsement from Coach Self and earn a living playing ball and also have that Degree from the University of Kansas. Not bad for a young man that used to live in a car. I think he will be a stud his Senior Year.
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“he could be the next T-Rob”
In many ways, he could be! He might be a little smaller… but he has every bit the heart TRob had! And he is doing it largely without getting credit along the way.
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@drgnslayr This is fun! Ding Ding Round 2. TRob was one of a kind! I hope you are right, however!
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Love what Jamari Traylor brings! (could he bring more?) Thomas Robinson had a knack for rebounds, and was simply a full notch larger in every way: 6’9 and 245lbs. Thomas Robinson could bang with anybody. He only met his match vs the A-rated platoon of KY bigs in '12. Thomas Robinson was also a nightly double-double. You could also run the hi-lo through him, unless he got double-teamed. The plays we run for Jamari are different than those we ran for TRob. Different than what we run for Ellis. Of course there IS some overlap, and Jamari can do a few of the things that Ellis (& TRob) do. Like drive the ball in certain situations and spacings.
Lucas has the size and mentality to bang with anybody. The fact he wouldn’t back down in his Jayhawk uniform from 370lb Josh Smith of G’town tells you all you need to know about tough-ass Lucas. We need to be proud of that toughness in Landon. He also has been a bit banged up. The WVU win was an absolute physical battle.
I’m not sold on our asst. coaches as bad as is being insinuated…nor am I sold on Danny Manning being as great of an asst coach as is often portrayed. What we need is candid reports from all of our Bill Self-era bigs on what it was that Manning brought to the table.
My own take on Self’s “big man Univ.” is that Danny taught some finesse and footwork, while Self himself gave the tough-mindset teachings, as he famously (or infamously, depending on how you perceive them) did for the Twins and Withey. The Twins were big softies when they arrived. Mild-mannered Danny isn’t the fiery, toughness in-the-paint requiring coach that former B10 coach Self was/is. Self gets downright pissed, and says things in public when his bigs get out-toughed.
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TRob actually had a monster game against Kentucky, 18 points and 17 boards!
