Calipari to HOF?
Really?? I mean, come on. Sure the guy has won games and recruited well, blah blah. But, he also vacated 2 full seasons worth of wins at two separate schools. A HOF coach that does not make. Why did he get the nod and Coach Self hasnt? Why?
IS this a shoe co thing @jaybate-1.0 ?
I don’t believe Coach Self qualifies…yet. These are the qualifications for induction and Coach Self does not quite have 25 years as Head Coach and/or Full Time Assistant. Calipari started as HC in 1988 at UMass and Coach Self started in 1993 at Oral Roberts. I am sure that once he meets the requirement he will be inducted, no question about it.
@JayHawkFanToo Huh, thats interesting. Thanks for the link. I wonder why Calipari’s two vacated seasons aren’t held against his total years in the bizz? Doesn’t seem right. I was also wondering about the time frame of Calipari being an assistant with Larry Brown and Coach Self being a GA with Brown too. Is that right?
I don’t believe either one was a full assistant under Larry Brown; they were graduate assistants and Self took Calipari’s position when he left to become and Assistant at Pittsburgh. I am not sure about Coach Self at OSU, he might have started as grad assistant and eventually moved to Full Assistant. In any case, Calipari started as a HC 5 years earlier than Coach Self; Calipari also coached 3 of those years in the NBA (NJ Nets)
@JayHawkFanToo AAhhhhh, ok cool. I was not certain of the time frames of both coaches and their age diffs. Thanks!
@JayHawkFanToo I’m not sure, but I thought that Calipari was a full assistant under coach Brown when Self was a grad assistant.
To the best of my knowledge and recollection, Calipari was a (grad?) Assistant at KU from '82-'85 and Self took his position in '85 when Calipari left for Pittsburgh. Calipari left at the end of the '84-'85 season and Self joined KU for the ‘85-86’ season. Their stints at KU did not overlap.
@JayHawkFanToo You are correct. I checked because I was curious. I was in grad school for those 2 years, but could not remember which years Calipari or Self were there. To verify, I stumbled on a Coach Cal website. Excuse me…I need to take a shower now.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by
Perhaps they have a new wing for coaches with seasons vacated for things they did not know about?
@jaybate-1.0 HA! I dont live very far from the Hall now, I will visit there at some point and let you know.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
@Lulufulu Calipari is a winning coach. I can’t stand the guy. Don’t know if the selection committee will take it into account or not.
It’s worth noting, and I’ve said this before, but Popovich was also some kind of grad assistant under Brown. Brown may have presided over the best group of coaching talent ever in his few years in Lawrence.
@wissoxfan83 Wow, didnt know that!
nuleafjhawk last edited by
@wissoxfan83 I am 100% sure that the selection committee will take it into account that you can’t stand the guy!
wissoxfan83 last edited by wissoxfan83
@nuleafjhawk I am the selection committee, how do you think Bo got on there?
I just did realize my post made it look like that’s what I said. Note to self, reread before hitting submit!
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
How many wins has he lost between UMass and Memphis? Oh yeah, HOF makes perfect sense. The HOF will be a joke for rewarding this type of coaching trend. He denies any wrong doing and is a victim of a player’s choice…Camby and Rose, but the wins were still removed. The loser was UMass and Memphis. Ask them if Calipari deserves HOF.
For you proof folks…
Calipari has been to 5 Final Fours, 3 with Kentucky (2011, 2012, 2014) and had previously led UMass in 1996 and Memphis in 2008 to the Final Four, but those appearances were later vacated. Calipari is the only head coach to have Final Four appearances vacated at more than one school, although Calipari himself was not personally implicated by the NCAA in either case.
Either he’s a great coach and the victim of bad players or he’s a poor judge of recruiting talent … those players are a reflection of him as their head coach. He’s got to take some responsibility, if it’s simply saying bad recruiting on his part for choosing players that caused you and the program to vacate their hard earned wins. The players are laughing all the way to the bank. Calipari has no responsibility at all. The programs are left holding the bag. But should also take some responsibility for choosing him. Memphis was especially dooped for taking him after UMass. Then he hurt all the players on the those teams who worked so hard and bought into his strategy to win. Then he simply says, “It’s not my fault…” Now, all UK can say is, “…Calipari himself was not personally implicated by the NCAA in either case.” This is a dead horse and I’m beating it again. I’m so sick of Calipari’s influence and grandstanding in college bball. John Chaney with Temple had Calipari’s number a long time ago…Altough not Chaney’s finest moment but his point was made about Calipari. You also know that Bobby Knight has no respect for the guy either. …pay attention at about (3:06) All UK does is defend and criticize two very well accomplished coaches simply because their program is experiencing success. This is not hating or jealousy. These are facts. UK is simply avoiding these facts. He wasn’t the best ESPN host, but he knows coaching, coaches and basketball. I might also add that many UK fans or supporters say that Knight is dumb, stupid, incompetent, senile, etc…yet UK wins. Thank you Bobby Knight for all you’ve done for basketball and keeping it real.
Let’s put him in the HOF.
In all fairness, Calipari was never fund to be personally responsible for the violations…we might not like it or agree with the conclusions but that is the what the official record has.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo so no comparison to Pete rose?
I saw Pete Rose play at the top of his career with the Reds; nobody played baseball with the energy that he did. As a player, he is second to none; however, as an individual I understand that the is a real a-hole. As player there is no question in my mind that he should be in the Hall of Fame…as a coach??? maybe not so much.
I always thought that if coaches/managers were “required” to bet for their own teams to win, games would be a hell of a lot more competitive. Just sayin’
truehawk93 last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo No debate, but are you supporting him in the HOF? The HOF under these circumstances? Just because he’s not implacated doesn’t make it right my Crimson and Blue friend.
I believe you could put Calipari’s knowledge of the game in a thimble planted in just a corner of the minds of both Knight and Chaney.
I don’t know how Calipari has been able to acquire so much talent over all these years. Perhaps he has cheated, but I can’t believe he can cheat any longer and get away with it. Surely, every aspect of his recruiting is scrutinized by everyone around D1.
I wouldn’t be bothered with Calipari if he wasn’t winning. I just don’t like the message it sends out there. It focuses too much of the game strictly on recruiting, and not about the abilities to coach, work hard as a team, and fight through tough situations to come out on top.
I’ve kept an eye on Kentucky basketball this year. Very boring basketball. They have plenty of individual highlight reel plays, mostly blocking shots. But their game stinks. Their offense really sucks, especially knowing how much talent is on that team. They have the ability to win strictly by putting 3 footers on the court at the same time and block shots. They don’t even need any kind of strategy to win. Just block shots, effect shots, and have enough offense to eek out victories.
When a player is 7" taller than his opponent… he doesn’t need to learn the skills required to lock down on his opposition. He just has to learn to make up the distance between his hand and the ball when the opposition shoots.
What could I take from a Kentucky basketball game and show my kid to help him with his game? Nothing. Not a damn thing… except maybe, “hey kid, eat your Wheaties and grow to be a footer.”
There has never ever been a coach so hated in college sports. Why is that? Because he is successful? Then why wasn’t Wooden hated 10 times more than Calipari?
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@drgnslayr nice! The footers also happen to be great athletic footers!
Whether we like it or not in our system an individual still has the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Regardless of what we think of him personally, there is no question that as a coach he has been wildly successful and, if you look at all the current coach’s rankings, he is usually in the top 5 and often ahead of Coach Self. I understand **WE **don’t like him and **WE **don’t agree with the way he has done it or the way he still does it, but you cannot deny his success.
Again, the easy answer is to say that he is not a good coach and he wins because of talent, but that is really disingenuous. Most knowledgeable basketball analysts consider him to be one of the top coaches in college basketball.
Do I like the squid? No. Would I like him coaching at KU? No. Is he worthy of the HOF? Yes.
Like I mentioned, I don’t care for Pete Rose the person either, but as a player he deserves to be in the HOF…you cannot deny his success as a player.
@JayHawkFanToo You have a solid point. I cannot really explain with any sense of dignity about how much I dislike Calipari. He smells like some rotten mollusk from the ocean, figuratively speaking of course. But, he is by definition, worthy of induction to the HOF.
Maybe I’ll go visit the Hall since I live mere hours away, and maybe an artfully drawn mustache will appear on Coach Cal’s picture.
Don’t fret too much about Calipari getting inducted.
I’m sure his induction can eventually be vacated, just like some of his seasons.
I do have to give it to Cal… he seems to test the waters in every aspect. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually tests the waters of the HOF…
@drgnslayr I have very little knowledge of Coach Wooden’s career. My opinion is that Coach Wooden did things the right way, all the time. He never had to vacate a season full of wins and was never investigated by the NCAA or had sanctions against him by said institution. Wooden is legend. Cal will never be.
Read about Sam Gilbert and will give you a different perspective on Coach Wooden. Lots of articles about his career and in many ways, the legend is better than reality. No question that Wooden was a coaching genius, but the UCLA program when he was there was anything but clean. There is no way he did not know what was going on and later in life he said that much. Would it surprise you to learn that few year later when Larry Brown (yes, that Larry Brown) was the coach at UCLA his NCAA Finals appearance was vacated?..and yet , no one holds it against Larry Brown.
Wooden is not the one I would name when looking at examples of clean programs. Bobby Knight for all his harshness and abrasive personality run a very clean program that graduated most every player.
As @JayHawkFanToo said, the program at UCLA would not be the program I would put at the top of the list when it comes to playing by the book… though… there is no proof that Wooden himself was in the slightest involved with Gilbert and the benefits he provided players. And it is unknown of the impact it had on UCLA recruiting. UCLA quickly became known as a powerhouse, but back then, it wasn’t common to recruit all over the nation.
There is little question about the quality of Wooden as a coach… and the lifelong philosophy he applied to the game (and to life). There are many players around to attest to his greatness and constantly communicate the teachings of Wooden. I’ve never heard of any of Calipari’s players acknowledging his philosophy, his teachings or quotes. Nothing.
Indiana, under Bobby Knight, is definitely the program to be put at the top list for running a tidy ship. Funny… he is one of Calipari’s strongest critics.
Ultimately, it is public opinion that determines someone’s greatness beyond their own self view. In that area, Calipari appears to be near the bottom of popularity amongst college basketball fans outside of Lexington (or the State of Kentucky). It is hard to judge the comments of “basketball analysts” because anyone can call themselves one. If you look at Calipari’s peers (other college basketball coaches) they usually seem to speak about him with guarded words. Coaches don’t tend to throw other coaches under the bus… but Calipari does have some baggage in that area with several coaches, including Knight and Chaney, who have apologized for their outbursts. I believe most college coaches prefer to give a “no comment” when asked about Calipari’s capabilities as a coach (beyond recruiting).
All I can say is I’m glad Calipari isn’t at Kansas. He can take his NCs and shove’em. I don’t like his style and his focus just on landing a dozen McDs AA on one team. I don’t know why his players don’t seem to mind if they play many minutes or not, while other programs almost have to write it in stone before a player commits. Yes… something smells in Denmark. But I believe Calipari isn’t giving them Rolex watches or fancy cars. He’s probably just playing these young people against themselves. Young kids don’t typically want to hear the truth… like “work hard and earn your minutes.” Obviously, he knows how to get them to sign with Kentucky.
Over the weekend was the NBA All-Star game and there were plenty of Calipari’s ex players. It all builds a glossy appearance over some of his rough spots, and it lures future young people into their program. And really… I’m not sure any of it matters in their futures, but it does impact college ball. You see… we are all about college basketball, so all of this matters… but for these kids, it is all about their futures, and in those regards, they might as well go play for anyone. It’s only a few months of basketball enroute to an NBA career. Too bad it spoils the game for all of us, who like seeing teams really have to scrap it out and aren’t loaded with decent footers in abundance.
Thanks you guys for the basketball history lesson. I really thought Wooden’s nose was clean. Ah well.
I am also glad Cal isnt coaching at KU.
I wonder, what did Larry Brown do at UCLA? And, then again at KU? I also wonder if the alleged violations he committed would be violations today.
JayhawkRock78 last edited by
@Lulufulu I’ve lived in LA, read Several Wooden books, and my kids met him at a bBall camp. I’ve also talked to him on a radio program (called in). I strongly believe Wooden was 100% clean. That doesn’t mean things didn’t happen behind his back.
At KU, Brown bought a plane ticket so a recruit that was visiting KU could go to his grandmother’s funeral; ironic, that the recruit did not even come to KU. KU was arrogant and thought it could win the case with the NCAA with in-house consel instead of hiring attorney that specialized in the subject. Instead of getting a slap in the wrist, KU was banned from the Tournament and cold not defend the tittle in 1989 and broke the streak of NCAA appearances. Even more ironic, as a result of that infraction, the NCAA instituted a program to help prospect in the very same predicament…go figure.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
Yep… and wasn’t that the time when Kansas changed their protocol and started their in-house compliance program (along with their own legal representation).
I think Larry said he loaned Askew around $350 so he could get home for his grandmother. At the time this happened, Kansas actually filed this information with the NCAA. And the money was considered a loan, except no one expected it to be repaid.
There were other improper things noted, like free transport of players back and forth from the KC airport. I believe this is an area Kansas has since worked out with the NCAA. Schools shouldn’t be punished if their locations are not so close to a major airport hub.
None of this really was enticement style violations. Not your typical alumni giving cash or fancy cars or watches to players for their signature.
Funny… the NCAA said that Kansas was “on the bubble” for receiving the death penalty. Yet… schools like Kentucky didn’t even have to vacate their National Championships when their players were nailed in a point shaving scheme… though they did receive the first ever “death penalty” having to sit out a season of basketball.
I guess point shaving is just a tad bit worse than loaning a player a few hundred bucks to get home to see his dying grandmother. Just a tad, according to the NCAA.