Self Suddenly Talking Different Heights of Bigs. Why?

  • Jamari Traylor is listed as 6-8 on one roster I looked at; this is what he was listed at last season, too.

    Perry Ellis is listed as 6-8 on that same roster; this is the same height he was listed at last season.

    Most of us have noted since last season that those heights have seemed inflated.

    We have even come to talk about KU inches, or Self units of measure.

    But I don’t recall Bill Self ever remarking on these numbers last season, or this season, before the latest press conference. I don’t recall him calling these two players 6-8, but I also don’t recall him saying they weren’t, either.

    Yet starting early in the second season of these players being listed at 6-8, shortly after being annihilated by 40 points by Kentucky and its four near footers, suddenly Bill Self has characterized his two “bigs,” referring apparently to Traylor and Ellis, as 6-6 and 6-7, respectively.

    Let me repeat that.

    Last season, Traylor and Ellis were 6-8.

    This season Traylor and Ellis are 6-6 and 6-7.

    I understand why you might inflate their heights. You might want to make your team feel a little bigger, and you might want to send a signal to opponents, that your team is a little bigger than it actually is.

    But why do you stop?

    Why do you tell fans and opponents these players are actually 2 and 1 inches shorter than they are listed?

    How exactly does that help the team?

    These two players?

    Or Coach Self?

    The best I can come up with is that it is reducing expectations a bit.

    Jamari Traylor, at 6-6, was fully 6 inches shorter than UK’s footers.

    Perry Ellis was 5 inches shorter.

    Have you ever stood next to someone that was 6 inches taller than you?

    It is like you are looking up at a skyscraper.

    How exactly are you supposed to deny an entry pass to someone six inches taller?

    How are you supposed to outbound the guy? Even if you block him out fully, you still both have to jump for the carom. How are you supposed to out jump him, when your butt is backed up and under him?

    How are you supposed to go up and jam on him?

    Sure you can beat him around the X-Axis, but sooner or later the ball comes down the Y-Axis. What then? Nail the footers Nike’s to the floor?

    Guys 6-6 and 6-7 are supposed to be playing the 3, maybe even the 2 on occasion.

    To put this in perspective, Svi, a point guard playing some 2 and 3, is taller than Traylor and Ellis.

    How do you score on guys 5-6 inches taller than you in an offense that does not believe in screening?

    But of course this is not really the question I started out to ask; that question was: why is Self admitting to how short these two truly are now?

    Answer: to reduce expectations.

    So: get ready KU fans.

    Welcome to reduced expectations.

  • It’s been driving me nuts to see both Perry and Jamari on the floor at the same time. I love the guy, but Jamari should be Perry’s backup, an energy burst when we need it, and that’s it. He shouldn’t be in the circle for the opening tip. Something is different with him this year–he seems to have traded in his hunger for swagger.

    To make matters worse with our “little big man syndrome,” Cliff looks to be about 6-7, not 6-8. His shoulders are squarer than Perry’s (yeah, I know: whose aren’t?), so he appears slightly taller. Selden looked taller last year too. What the hell’s going on?

  • Svi on the court makes the others look short. Maybe Self is admitting that because Svi is going to play more?

  • @DanR

    Self seems to be trying a lot of new stuff outside his comfort zone, i.e., trying to do for himself what he does for his players.

    The offense is the same, but Self is different.

    Self is apparently trying to motivate with more controlled toughness this year, but with less angry fury. More DI and less pissed off coach.

    He talked in his presser about anger and how it was not really useful for teaching; that the early practice was not punishment; that it was to finish up “some things they didn’t get done.”

    More controlled hardness and less wasp tongued cracks is what I would call it.

    It wears down persons. Real boot camp in the Marine Corp transformed my father from a brash good looking college kid of June 1940 pictures into a stunned looking, but squared away Marine after boot camp and then into a brash 2 Louie after OCS.

    This team appears to act like a post boot camp bunch that is in the middle of the head rigors of OCS.

    There is going to be a nonlinear jump in performance and self confidence coming but Self is signaling its a few weeks away yet. That tells me OCS is still in session.

    There are players like Oubre talking about having to trust Self, because of his long past success. That is another way of Oubre saying he still likes Self, but Oubre has never seen anything like what they have been through; that he and the team don’t know whether to defecate or stand up. This all smacks of Marine training.

    There is going to come time where they come out like a band of razor edged fanatics, but that is still some 16 days away.

    Why 16?

    Because he mentioned UK had had 16 extra days of practice; that’s why.


    UK was apparently treated as a practice game to stem wind them.

    This is a new way of coaching.

    Only God knows if it will work

  • @jaybate-1.0 'Self Suddenly Talking Different Heights of Bigs. Why?"

    I think he’s looking to express why he making changes to the starting lineup. His comments would explain why he is moving Mari onto the bench and starting Lucas.

  • @jaybate-1.0 I don’t think the expectations are reduced. We still have a top 5 team. We will be motivated for the rest of the season. We are Kansas. We have a squad of excellent D-1 players. We are a few weeks a way from where we want to be.

  • Self finds interesting ways to motivate his group. In a nice “to be real candid with you” he’s calling them small. He’ll get them to play bigger as the year progresses.

    Wow Svi is tough, he’s doing it all out there!

  • Jaybate. I’ve never joined the “post” party but followed KU sports . Com for sometime really to skim through and get your take on our Hawks.

    Glad to find you again.

    My early take on our team…

    Against KY Self half held back what will be our horses come late Jan & early Feb. Folks have called out his “lack” of being a coach that game and think after he realized we didn’t have it that night (on any basketball level) he let them go “on their own” to prove a couple of points.

    From HCBS to Team:

    1. You guys won’t get anywhere individually. Attention is now mine.
    2. Alexander youre the best player on the team, You’re gong to earn it during December. Cliff you stud, you remind me of a cross breed of DJack and TRob. Motor you have.
    3. Svi shoot it. Svi shoot it. Svi shoot it . You have the trigger that perhaps we haven’t seen since Boschee.
    4. Hey Frank and Wayne you’ve got to find your way. You need to feed the Cliff the Great, make your wide open shots and your lanes will clear like the Red Sea. B Greene, I love ya but keep yourself out of the doghouse your soph year, play your role, be a spark and also shoot it son.
    5. We will win the B12 again. Goal is still, you damn right is a National Chanpionship.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Your answer is correct … but I’ll add another: As an excuse.

    The “we’re young” mantra can only take you so far.

  • @Family-Hawk

    Very strong bar mitzvah post on

    After having a bit of a dobber below sea level moment after the UK game, I am slowly being brought around to what you and ralster and some others have posted.

    I still see some real holes with this team that I did not in prior teams.

    A lot depends on whether Self has scheduled this slow ramp up, or not. After I heard him grousing post UK that the Stillcats had had 16 more practices, I kind of decided that, yes, he has been being more deliberate with developing this team, which means the team will come around.

    Good to see you here. You will soon recall many posters here. They carry the mail now. I am just a peanut gallery.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    “How exactly are you supposed to deny an entry pass to someone six inches taller?”

    You’ll have to review some Charles Barkley tape for that answer. Unfortunately, I’m not sure college basketball refs will allow the contact.

  • @ParisHawk

    “Svi on the court makes the others look short.”

    Heck… the guy is only a 17 yr old kid. He’s probably growing!

    Maybe he’s our answer for March. Maybe he’ll be a footer by then!

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