New teammate for Wiggy
LeBron back to Cleveland.
JayhawkRock78 last edited by
@brooksmd Great news-they should be good together.
REHawk last edited by
Who will come to Cleveland with him? Will the Cavs trade Wigs to secure a star big man? Will LeBron insist that Wiggins remains alongside him?
ajvan last edited by
Lebron didn’t mention Wigs in his letter, so I’m not sure Wigs is staying in Cleveland. They might send him elsewhere and try and lure Kevin Love instead.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
That’s about the best thing that can happen for Wiggins development.
KirkIsMyHinrich last edited by
There’s a pretty decent chance that he gets traded for Kevin Love.
It would be pretty cool to see them play together though.
HighEliteMajor last edited by
@KirkIsMyHinrich Wiggins, Waiters, Bennett for Love?
nuleafjhawk last edited by
Wonder what it would have been like if they had been teammates at KANSAS ?
bskeet last edited by bskeet
It seems like several think LBJ’s return to Cleveland is GOOD for Wigs… I tend to agree…
Anyone think there’s a downside for Wiggins that we’re missing? (I see the suspected trade posts…)
I just became a big Cavs fan!
Good move, LBJ. He doesn’t have to play for money or for the fear of never winning a title… He can now play for pure pride and a sense of belonging because he is truly playing at home.
Just look at the response in Miami… where is the “Heat” on LBJ for leaving? They just didn’t have the connection to him like the State of Ohio does.
The Cavs should keep Wigs because he just became a much better player. LBJ will help him utilize his athleticism into being one of the greats. The Cavs should take a page out of UCONN basketball and go for an emphasis on x-axis basketball by keeping Wigs.
FarSideHawk last edited by
I hope Wiggins stays in Cleveland and develop without pressure. It also means he won’t get the ball as much with so many stars around, but it’s 100x better to be on a winning team, learning from the best, instead being traded to, perish the thought, Minnesota!
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
Big winners: The Cavaliers and James that gets to go back home.
Winners: Bosch, who does not have to take a pay cut to stay in Miami and gets the maximum to play for a contender. Wiggins go has a lot of the pressure taken off him at Cleveland, provided he is not traded for Kevin Love.
Big losers: Miami who is left in shambles and Wade, whose value without James and Bosch is greatly diminished; on the other hand, Miami has plenty of money to pay him.
TBD: Mario Chalmers, who lost his starting position and whose value went down quite a bit during the past playoffs. Napier will likely be appointed the PG of the future and Mario’s position is pretty shaky, but then again, the Heat will have lots of money available and maybe they will want to keep the only regular rotation player on board…or they might chose to get rid of everyone associated with last season’s team. As I said, I can either way for Mario.
LEbron and Wigs will be perfect trancept style offence I.e., for the Cavs to bring Phil Jackson into, either as HC, or as a Tex Winter style coach emeritus. The need a good defensive center. This is Chicago Bulls 2.0. And Lebron can give Wigs room and time to grow.
Great move by Cav management, but only if they bring in Phil.
@JayHawkFanToo Add to the losers:
The Houston Rockets. I think everyone figured once James left Miami that Bosh would take the max Houston could offer. Plan A was Melo, plan B was Bosh, now they’re left (like the majority of the other teams) sifting through what’s left. They traded away (or agreed to trade away anyway) Omar Asik & Jeremy Lin (and threw in a first round pick with Lin) just to clear cap space. They’ve also had the Mavericks force their hand on Chandler Parsons, who they’d like to keep but now must match Dallas’s offer sheet. Obviously not the off-season this franchise, who I think most agree was on an upward trajectory, had in mind.
Pat Riley. Obviously we could lump him in with the Heat all together, but I think he’s a separate entity. Keeping LeBron and some semblance of a championship team together would have been his swan song as he headed off into retirement. Now he’s got to try and build it back up. He talked Bosh & Wade into opting out to upgrade the roster, just to end up giving Bosh max money. Where does that leave him with Wade, who’s got to be looking at him like “wtf Pat?”. He had what I consider a serious mis-read of the cap situation, as well as an overestimation of his ability to clunk his rings down on the table and get all these top-tier free agents to come to Miami for significantly less money. To go from having his team in the Finals to this mess…well ya got your work cut out for you Riles.
Phoenix, Boston, Golden State, and any other team thought to be in serious contention to land Kevin Love. Cleveland is positioned brilliantly both with the flexibility to add a contract such as the one Love is likely to command as well as the tradeable assets (players & draft picks) that should allow them to pull the deal off. And with LBJ, Love has come out and said he would now be willing to go and stay in Cleveland. Somehow, likely in spite of Gilbert & the Cavs front office, everything has fallen into place.
And the final loser could unfortunately be Wiggins. If he gets dealt to Minnesota, that is a bummer. To go from a team that without James had a lot of young promising talent, to being part of the same team plus James, to being on a Minnesota team that wouldn’t even have Kevin Love…wow. Might call up Kevin Garnett and ask him how he was able to stand so many abysmal seasons there.
DoubleDD last edited by
@drgnslayr you my friend said it better than I could ever do. I’m not NBA fan by any means. Yea I’ll keep an eye KU players in the league. However if the Cavs keep Wiggins, with this Lebron decision. I will be buying a CAVS Jersey.
Hawk8086 last edited by
If you are Minnesota, how do you trade Love without getting Wiggins?
The Cavs have always been a lousy franchise fighting to overcome a legacy of stupidity. If they trade Wiggins for Love, they are doomed. Lebron likely will back out and go to NY or LA. He has the bargaining power to break any deal. And he will if they trade Wiggins for any one but a proven superstar 2-3. But again, even if they keep Wiggins, the Cavs and Lebron are doomed without a great coach. Lebron has wasted his career with lousy coaches same as Wilt did his first ten years. Phil Jackson will come for Lebron. But the savvy political move is Doc Rivers as head coach and Phil Jackson as coach emeritus. Teach Lebron and Wigs the triangle, pick up two brawny journey man centers, and it’s 5 straight rings starting season after next. If the Cavs had Jackson right now Irving would already be traded for Love, but the Cavs don’t have leadership at the top with a pair and hoops IQ. Irving plus Lebron equals failure without wiggins. Lebron plus Wiggins and average guards and journeyman centers equal rings. Next.
Agree 100% with you assessment…although in a couple of hours the situation might change completely. Bosch signing back with the Heat was surprise and a desperation move by the Heat to save pieces of what it once was.
Signing Wade was a package deal with James and Bosch but now that LeBron is gone, I believe the Heat can pick up 2-3 good players for the same cost. Signing Gasol and Melo, for example, could put them right back on the map but this is highly unlikely, Melo anyway; however Gasol is doable since he will be in the $12M range. Add another quality forward and they are back to having a decent team…
None of the serious trade consideration I have seen so far for the Cavaliers getting Love involve Wiggins. The Cavs are in a unique situation where they have several promising players still in their rookie contracts but in a few years, if they all develop as expected, their payroll would be huge; if Wiggins develops as expected, his next contract will be for 4-5 times the current contract. I believe the Cavs will keep him at least for 4 years at the initial contract low cost.
It looks like Wiggins will be staying in Cleveland…
At this point, the options for teams are getting smaller as the salary cap will prevent many teams from signing the remaining big names, although at this time anything can happen. Love announced he will not sign an extension with Minnesota, so a trade is the only way for them to get anything from him or else he is a free agent after the upcoming season and they get nothing. Love is as good as gone with the only question being where.
If you are Minnesota, you need bodies you can keep long enough to get lucky and land a franchise player in the draft. Love is not a guy you can keep. So you dump Love for anything you can get ASAP, so he doesn’t just walk on you next season. Love is not the answer to any question worth asking in Tundraville. He’s a west coast guy and no west coast guy will ever be a long termer in tundraville.
@JayHawkFanToo Thanks for the link regarding Wiggins. I hope that’s true and he is in fact allowed to stay in Cleveland. A lot of the Wiggins for Love speculation came from the fact that in his letter to SI, LeBron didn’t mention Wiggins by name as being one of the players he was excited about playing with (Kyrie Irving & Dion Waiters were mentioned, among others). And as @Hawk8086 queried - how do you trade Love to the Cavs without getting Wiggins in return? Anybody else on that roster (except for LeBron & Irving) are marginal at best. Waiters is thoroughly unimpressive and Bennett may be a bust. Tristan Thompson would be a nice addition to any trade, but not as the centerpiece. The Cavs do have a bunch of draft picks with which to trade, just not sure that is enough to get a trade done. And the Wolves have other options, so they can afford to wait and let it play out a bit.
As for the Heat, don’t count on Melo or Gasol. Melo is down to the Knicks & Chicago, and I don’t know if he would reopen his “recruitment” for what would likely be less money with Miami. Gasol looks like he’s headed to Chicago. Not really any more stars on the market. They could try and grab Trevor Ariza (Houston is zeroed in on him as well). After that, the talent level drops down yet another tier.
And lastly to the Cavs cap concerns, like I said they have a lot of flexibility. In a few years it’s true that some of their rookies will command larger contracts. But Irving is already locked up, so they don’t have to worry about him. And Anderson Varejao will be coming off the books at a salary of almost $10 mil/year. Guys like Bennett & Thompson haven’t proven enough yet that their contracts will grow too much. And the cap will surely go up some over the years. So I don’t think they’re in too bad of shape. Definitely nothing like Miami was looking at this past off-season.
@icthawkfan316 I always smile when I see Aldrich! Watched him play yesterday and he did pretty good. Nice to see him sign!! He’s a great guy!
HighEliteMajor last edited by
Somehow, I am more interested in whether Hunter Mickelson can be a rim protector …
But, when in Rome – I would trade Wiggins without a second thought if I could get Kevin Love. Have you seen that guy’s numbers? He is a superstar.
James, Irving, and Love would be a much more dynamic big three than the Miami three.
Some have suggested that Cleveland simply wait until Love is a free agent. But by trading, you lock it in. I don’t see how they can pass on this obvious opportunity.
Now, back to real basketball …
icthawkfan316 last edited by icthawkfan316
@HighEliteMajor I’m inclined to agree that if I were Cleveland I’d trade Wiggins for Love. I’m just saying I don’t want it to happen because Minnesota is a significant downgrade destination.
As for Love’s numbers, they are impressive. Admittedly, I haven’t watched him play that much, but he’s never led Minnesota to anything (have they even made the playoffs with him there? I looked and it doesn’t appear so) so I’d stop short of calling him a superstar. All three of Miami’s former “big 3” at least made the playoffs on their own. Even Bosh with Toronto. Obviously basketball is a team sport, but I just think to be dubbed a superstar you should be able to carry your team to at least finish in the middle of your conference (with 15 teams/conference, and 8th place finish is exactly in the middle).
In speaking with a few TWolves fans, they kind of feel the same way, that he’s very good but at the same time not all he’s cracked up to be. A couple even said he deliberately pads his rebounding stats, going all out and out of his way to snatch boards away from teammates (again, I can neither confirm nor deny this, having not watched an abundance of TWolves games. I don’t think I’ve watched any actually, since they’re never in the playoffs. I just see the occasional highlight on Sportscenter).
Hawk8086 last edited by
@jaybate 1.0 Interesting observation about Minnesota and Love. I’ll be curious to see if you are right.
I can see your point and I can see HEM’s also. I do believe Love is a superstar in the same way that Ewing, Karl Malone and Barkley were, even when they did not lead their team to their championship; although they all had deep runs into the post season.
Obviously I am biased, but I would not trade Wiggins to get Love. Wiggins has a huge potential and is tied to a very low contract for the next 4 years, where Love will probably come at the max. It also would be interesting to see if Love, who has had locker room issues with teammates, can take a back set to LeBron; in this respect, Gasol might be a better fits since he does a lot of the things Love does, except scoring which the Cavs will have covered anyway and he has experience playing behind an alpha dog.
Latest news have Gasol signing with Chicago and Melo going back to the Knicks. If this is true, he other pieces will fall into place quickly after that.
On the other hand Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum are still available.
But there is zero chance that Love can produce for Cleveland what he has for Minnesota, precisely because he will be playing with Lebron and Irving, or Lebron, Irving and Wiggins. or Lebron and Wiggins.
Wiggins is a big risk, but so was Lebron once upon a time. Great talents are great risks, because many of them don’t measure up.
Cleveland’s management would have to be on severe mood altering drugs to trade the best prospect since Lebron. And Wiggins is the best prospect since Lebron, despite all his inadequately developed game.
The bottom line on Wigs is that he played about 1/2 speed the entire season and still was the best player on KU and good enough, had Embiid stayed healthy, to have played for a ring. I mean, I have been XTRemely critical of Wiggins protecting the merchandize all last season, but that only bodes well for what Wiggins can do when his handlers take the governor off him.
This guy was exceptional at half speed.
He likely will tear up a lot of the NBA at full speed. And what he does not tear up at full speed this season, he will annihilate after three seasons of unrestricted play in the NBA.
Cleveland, for god’s sakes don’t trade away the chance for the next great transcept team. Lebron and Wigs on both wings is solid gold in two seasons, three at the most. And at that point, its is as many rings in a row as Lebron will hang on for.
P.S.: I totally agree that Hunter is the much more interesting and important issue.
Here is a list of the top remaining free agents with the most recent updates (as of mid-afternoon Saturday)…
Now is time to watch the World Cup…
@JayHawkFanToo watching summer league, TRob getting better!!!
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
Cavs are not trading Wigs. He is the future franchise player. LBJ is 30? He’s not going to last too much longer. You’d be silly to act hastily by trading Wigs just to get Love. You can afford to go without Love for another season or two. Love will gain free-agency. LBJ will re-establish himself as the leader of a leaderless team. Wigs will emerge with LBJ as the up and coming leader of this team. Kyrie Irving will lead this team as do many other pgs in the NBA. There’s is another rumor that Ray Allen may follow LBJ to the Cavs. There again, Allen is nearing a retirement point. I doubt that would do much for the Cavs. Regardless who they get, it will take time for them to become a team.
and eventually Love will gain free-agency to join them in a year or two. He will be the much needed threat they will need.
Those of you that are advocating a Wigs for Love trade, are silly. If you trade Wigs for Love, it will work for a time. But if LBJ can hold out if and when Love arrives, the Cavs will be huge favs to win some World Championships. I don’t think Kyrie Irving figures into your “big three.” I think your big three will likely become Wigs, LBJ, and possibly Love. Irving will be much like Rajon Rondo. He will be a big key, but don’t think he’s bigger than Wigs, LBJ or Love.
Lastly, the hype behind LBJ’s comments during the announcement is hillarious. Many are saying that he didn’t mention Wigs and therefore, Wigs is being traded. I love the drama that ESPN creates. He never mentioned Kevin Love either. The announcement was about LBJ returing home and what he wants to do upon his return. Even he’s not sure what will happen, but my guess is he’ll welcome Wiggins to help his home team and likely help develop him to become the future for a team LBJ loves. LBJ knows his time is drawing near and that he has a few more championships available, he’ll want the most talented cast around him to achieve those championships. Who better then the #1 draft pick and the most freakish athletic player in the draft? LBJ knows talent and he’ll likely get the team going with what they have, then hopefully see a Love or similar player come to the Cavs to support his goals of more championships.
@truehawk93 You may think it would be silly to trade Wiggins for Love, but remember Cleveland is a town that hasn’t seen a championship in any sport in like 50 years. If you have LeBron, who I don’t think anyone would argue is the best player on the planet right now, you try and do everything you can to win in the window you have him. I don’t think that’s silly.
And waiting for Love to hit the open market on the presumption he’s going to the Cavs is the kind of front office optimism that just sunk Miami. There will be many suitors and many who will likely be able to offer more. And in the interim you risk him being traded to Golden State or some other team that he really likes and re-signs there.
I’m not one who is advocating such a trade. In fact, I’m 100% hoping that trade doesn’t happen, because he has a better chance to win in Cleveland and the TWolves are garbage. But a lot of people need to take their crimson & blue colored glasses off and ask yourself if you’re the Cleveland GM, where winning just one championship would make you a god in that town, do you not pull out all the stops?
Reading that LeBron signed only for two years raises a few red flags. To me it means that he wanted a place where he could park his game for two years and get top dollar while waiting for the next TV contract, which will raise the cap by quite a bit, and then sign his final 5 year contract for an insane amount of money with whatever team wins the next LeBron sweepstakes; after all he is 30 years old and thinking about his future. Cleveland was a convenient spots that allowed him to create lots of good will.
While he could be considered the best active basketball player, he is also one of the most disliked celebrities. Going to Cleveland for 2 years was a masterful move, which now appears a little more selfish than it did before.
Same for Carmelo. As much as he kept saying he wanted to play for a contender, in the end he chose the money. Most every other team that pursued him was/is in better position to contend but not all could offer the money the Knicks could and he opted to take the money.
Now, if you are the Cavs GM you have to ask what will happen in two years? Will LeBron resign or will he takes his talents to a higher bidder? Love is in the same situation Dwight Howard was and he went to the Lakers, played for one year and then he was gone. Love will likely not sign an extended contract with Cleveland unless he has assurances that LeBron will be there for more than two years. At this point, no team will touch him unless he agrees to a contract extension, so he has de-facto veto power over any potential trade; the Howard situation created a precedent that most teams are likely not willing to address.
In short, I believe the Cavs keep Wiggins since he represents the long term future. The Cavs will try to get Love, but I don’t believe Wiggins will be part of the trade in the same way that the Warriors were unwilling to give up Klay Thompson; they do have several other players the would let go before they do Wiggins.
Most of our concern is for Wiggins future, as how he does will for a while reflect on KU. And he is a great kid. Yes, I will be a Cavs fan if LBJ went back there, especially if they keep Wiggins.
What I’d love to see is Wiggins stay in Cleveland and play at the 2, and be a 6’8 quiet-professional Kawhi Leonard type of player, whose offense develops without pressure, as he plays lockdown-D alongside the star-attention LBJ will get. Whereas in Minnesote, he’d be thrown to the wolves, and have to be the supastar from day 1, maybe he is ready for that, I’m not certain…
A big loser in all this is the Heat, Pat Riley, and DWade. Suddenly, DWade is on the outside, looking in…he is damaged goods. I dont think my man DWade can carry a team anymore, nor is it wise for him to try. Knees dont just miraculously turn into 22-yr-old-knees again. DWade is now a role player, at best. At worst, he is a role player that cannot turn it “on”, as he had nothing/zero/nada/zilch in crunchtime.
Stated another way: DWade was the NBA’s highest FG% guard this past season. It used to be he was somewhat of a “volume shooter” back in his heyday. But now that he’s taking less shots, and hitting more, its OK…until the night that you face a determined defender, and your shots arent dropping–> what to do? Got to turn on the “volume shooter” approach, but he couldnt. Explosiveness of the blow-by is gone. Defensively struggling. Was painful to watch…just as this is painful to summarize right now, talking about one of my favorite NBA players of the last 10yrs. I wish DWade the best in all this, hope he lands on a team that can maximize whatever he has left to give…
@JayHawkFanToo I read that about his contract too. A couple of things. First, I don’t think it makes him come off as selfish. Did you know that until this year with the Cavs he had never even been the highest paid player on his own team? To be in the league 12 years or whatever it has been and for that to just now be the case for him is ridiculous. If in 2 years he’s still the best player in the league, I wouldn’t have a problem with him commanding another max contract.
As for if I’m the Cavs GM, I wouldn’t have to worry about him taking his talents to the highest bidder because I would be the highest bidder. I’d make sure we had the cap room to offer him the max if that’s what he wanted.
Regarding trading for Love, some of these teams crack me up. I’ve read differing reports on whether Golden State was willing to give up Klay Thompson or whether it was something else that stalled that deal, but say it was that Golden State didn’t want to give him up…are you kidding me? Klay freakin’ Thompson? I see this in baseball a lot. Teams expecting the trade deadline sellers to just hand over their best players but they don’t want to give up their best prospects in return. To get talent you usually have to part ways with something you’d rather keep. No one is just going to take your trash for Kevin Love! It is for this reason that I believe the Love to Cleveland deal will only get done if they include Wiggins. Pretending to be Flip Saunders, there’s no way I can get excited about Dion Waiters or Tristan Thompson, nor can I sell that return to the Minnesota fans. Maybe if the market dries up for Love and they get desperate to move him or lose him, but way too early and still multiple suitors for them to consider such a meager offer from Cleveland (especially considering that now that they have LeBron, all their 1st round picks they’ve been stockpiling have substantially reduced value. Instead of those being lottery picks, they’re now likely early to mid 20s).
Lastly regarding Wiggins himself, it remains to be seen just how good he’ll be in the NBA. Say his outside shot never improves. Or his handles. Then he’s still a very good player - great in transition and the ability to be a great defender. But in that scenario he’s not the future of the franchise. Superstardom is not guaranteed. How many thought Ben McLemore was going to bust onto the NBA with a splash? Instead he struggled, even with his shot. For someone who was compared to Ray Allen in having one of the most pure shots in the game, this illustrates that nothing is guaranteed. Now is Wiggins on another level? We think so; I think so. I think he has the best chance of anyone Self has put into the league. But perhaps we should wait and see him play a few games…
@ralster Agree on your assessment of Wade.
While following the LeBron free agency saga something that was mentioned a time or two was the idea of the Heat acquiring another capable 2-guard and transitioning DWade to a Manu Ginobili type role to try and maintain a couple more years of effectiveness from him. That was quickly seen as not practical when they were assumed to be re-signing LeBron, as they wouldn’t have the cap space to acquire someone the caliber they would need to move Wade into that role. Now though without the LBJ max contract to deal with, perhaps they have that flexibility, although at least for this off-season I don’t know that there are any 2-guards of that caliber left (or if there were ever any to begin with for that matter), but perhaps down the line that may still be in the works.
icthawkfan316 last edited by bskeet
And just a little bit more good news regarding Wiggins staying in Cleveland:
This also confirms what I’ve been saying, and that Minnesota isn’t making the deal without Wiggins.
A Former User last edited by A Former User
@icthawkfan316 Solid synopsis on all of this, agree with everything. Of course as I contemplate a 2guard replacement…I think of our KU guys in the League, but Rush nor McLemore have the handles that DWade has. DWade in his prime could pull up anywhere within 10 feet for a high%finish, or could change direction on a dime, still getting to the rim & finishing from any angle. BMac and Rush do not possess such handles. Wayne Selden & Marcus Smart would do well to study film of what 05-11 DWade did against NBA bigs in the paint, it was amazing to watch. But a 6’4-6’5 guy needs tight handles and a change of direction to do all that. Things beyond the classic2 mold of just a pretty shot.
@ralster DWade in his prime is easily one of the 5 best 2-guards in the history of the league. Maybe #3 after Jordan & Kobe. Even despite my souring on some of his dirty tactics the past few years, I still count myself lucky to have watched the guy play.
drgnslayr last edited by bskeet
" However if the Cavs keep Wiggins, with this Lebron decision. I will be buying a CAVS Jersey."
Me, too! It would be the first piece of NBA-licensed gear I ever bought!
“I would think for a guy like Andrew, to have the opportunity to play with arguably one of the best players of all time, and to learn from him and to be tutored by him and to play alongside him – which he will – I gotta think that’s a tremendous boost to his confidence.” – Cavaliers coach David Blatt
This also confirms what I said that the Cavs will not trade Wiggins.
LeBron just signed with Adidas!
Other KU related NBA news. Hinrich re-ups with the Bulls and Pierce is headed to Washington.
@JayHawkFanToo Mario resigned, 2 yrs.
Mario sign 2 year deal with Miami…
I wonder if he had to take a pay cut from his $4M per year contract.
@Crimsonorblue22 Sorry Crimson, I did not see your post.
icthawkfan316 last edited by bskeet
Check out this dunk from Wiggins in warm-ups:
P.S. What’s the key to getting the links properly posted? Right now it’s just copy & paste guys. Sorry!
DoubleDD last edited by
@drgnslayr Dude he didn’t sign with Adidas? Or are just trying to get Jaybate’s goat?
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by bskeet
Story on Tarik, classy as always!
I was going for everyone’s goat.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
Dude, I’m a goat-free board rat.