Myles Turner to Visit KU
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Didn’t see this posted elsewhere, but according to zagsblog Turner is back on with KU, slated to visit on Senior Night. It was first reported here. The big question is, what does this mean with regards to Joel Embiid? As the zagsblog article points out, Self has told Turner straight up that he shouldn’t bother if JoJo comes back. Is this hinting that JoJo is leaning in the NBA’s direction or is it that Self is being over prepared? Either way, at this point, I was a little surprised that Turner would burn one of his visits with us. Thoughts?
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If I were a betting man, I would guess that Embiid will leave at the end of the season. Way too much money at stake and as he saw, one injury could make the whole thing go away.
Turner would be a great fit at KU and I can see why he is covering all the bases. If Embiid leaves he comes to KU and teams up with Alexander, if Embiid stays he goes to the next best place; nothing lost visiting the program I believe is his first choice.
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@konkeyDong Better to be overprepared than under prepared right? We don’t want to end up losing in recruting like we did a couple seasons ago. I think if we win the national title we could lose more than expected. Selden and Perry could cash in on top of Wiggins and Embiid. I would love to see all of them back but being realistic we know for sure Wiggs is gone at the very least. So if I was Self I would def overprepare. Numbers will always work themselves out. That being said I would prefer a second year Jo-Jo over a Frosh Turner.
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I don’t think Perry is going to the NBA quite yet. He does not have the build to play the 4 in the NBA and If he want to play there, he will have to learn to play the 3, which in some way might be his natural position. I will guess that next year he will split time with Alexander at the 4 and with Oubre at the 3. He has shown he has the range to shoot from outside, now he need to improve his range and drive to the hoop when necessary. Also. I believe it is important to hm and his family that he graduates and he can very well do that in 3 years as he is also an outstanding student. He will likely stay.
Selden is currently projected as a late first round pick. If he comes back, he can dominate at the 2 and work his way up to a lottery pick. My guess is he stays.
At the end of the season Wiggins is gone and Embiid is probably gone too.
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@JayHawkFanToo Any chance you think we could convince Jo and Wiggins to come back? That’s a pipe dream I know. I think Perry will stay as well and he should. I was just looking at it from a worst case stand point that he would decide to cash in with his name getting more recognition as a NCAA Tournament Champion. His game is quite perplexing at times. I’ve seen him get stuffed by shorter players that he should be bowling over. During the OU game , I cant remember at what point but he was in the lane and tried to lay it up and missed it when he should have jsut gone for the dunk and the foul because his man was moving. Bill self can teach these guys everthing but they have to learn to use it. I guarentee he tells them to be agressive but if it’s not in that players mind set then it won’t happen. For him to play the 3 he needs better handles, because right now that is a weak point for him.
Regarding Selden I think he should stay and become a top 5 pick next year. If we do lose Embiid in addition to Wiggins, then it’s the Wayne Selden Show next year. And it hink he has an agressive enoguh mentality to shoulder that load. Yes we will have a senior Tharpe and a Junior Perry but as stated before Perry is not agressive enough to make it his team and Naa’s job is to make everyone better.
For Embiid it’s kind of a coin flip on one hand he should probably cash in and becoem the number one pick with Wiggs right behind him on the other hand he could use another year with Hudy to build his body up more. Either way it’s a good decision for him, but obviousily it’s better for us if he comes back.
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@konkeyDong Since there have ceased to be stories floated about Embiid’s parents being affluent enough for him to consider staying another year, and Myles visit has been announced after KU and he separated earlier, I only see two ways to read it.
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Embiid looked down the barrel of the injury gun and realized some money is better than no money.
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Myles advisors and Self have convinced Myles that like Embiid, Myles needs two years to mature and muscle up to make the transition to the L.
Either one could be reality. I have an intuition it might be the latter, however. Joel Embiid is 7-0 and 250. And all the high school bigs have to have been watching what has been done to Joel this season by opposing defenses. Myles isn’t supposedly nearly as substantial as Joel. One site has him at 6-11 and 225. And the picture of him suggests a very skinny guy. Consider that 250 pound Joel has been manhandled, thrown on the floor, eye gouged, and generally beaten up so bad that he had to sit out a week without any injury even of an operable nature, according to the talking points. If you are a skinny big watching Joel every game on WatchESPN this season, you’ve got to consider that college has to be a 2-3 year gig for a big man in order for his strength and weight to develop. I mean look at Perry Ellis. He has to be a lot stronger than Myles and he is simply getting run off the boards in lots of games. I know Kevin Young was skinny Doberman, but there aren’t many of those around.
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Turner should come to Kansas ESPECIALLY if Embiid stays!
First off… Turner shouldn’t be a OAD, he should be a TAD… and where would be the best place to go for a TAD?
Try this on for size:
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To a school with the top center in America you would have to practice against every day. What other scenario offers more for your development?
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To a school that clearly has the best reputation for developing big men! Embiid goes from zero to #1 in the country? Can’t prove anything better than that!
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To a school that has the best conditioning program in the country… especially useful to a guy like Turner!
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To a school where you would have no pressure to be successful in your first year while you learn the ropes.
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To a school who is almost a shoe-in to be a Final Four team your first year… AND your second year!
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To a school who has the #1 pick in the lottery, a center, in the year before you will declare for the draft!
If Turner comes to Kansas, he will be the #1 pick in two years… how could a young man want more than that?!
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Oh, I just noticed an additional reason Myles could be considering KU. Alexander’s high school in Chi is in some hot water about eligibility of player. One rumor is that Alexander has been cleared of any involvement. But that is a rumor. If Alexander were a doubtful, then reopening recruitment of Myles would make sense, whether or not Joel is jumping, or staying.
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is in some hot water about eligibility of player. One rumor is that Alexander has been cleared of any involvement. But that is a rumor. If Alexander were a doubtful, then reopening recruitment of Myles would make sense, whether or not Joel is jumping, or staying.
@jaybate 1.0 That’s not really what I want to hear, but yeah, I saw that story too.
More generally speaking, however, I think I would rather Embiid stay than land Turner, especially if we don’t reach the promised land this time around. Given who we’re likely to have returning next year at the moment (everyone but Wigs, Black, and likely an AW3 transfer), plus who we’re adding (Oubre and Big Cliff), I’d have to think we’ll be easily one of the top 10 programs coming into next season. But if Embiid comes back that puts us no worse than top 2 (and the only ones who might be able to top us would be a Duke team returning Jabari Parker, as has been rumored). Frankly, even if Turner wound up at Duke, there wouldn’t be a frontcourt in the country to match the talent and diversity of Embiid/Ellis/Alexander/Traylor and Lucas or Mickelson as needed. For that reason, and a whole host of others, I really think we’re in better shape to win it all next year rather than this year. I hope I’m wrong, though (or that we just win back to back).
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@konkeyDong “I really think we’re in better shape to win it all next year rather than this year. I hope I’m wrong, though (or that we just win back to back).”
Lets go with your latter thought on that. I like the idea of repeating.
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If Self lands Myles and Lyle, we must nickname Lyle with “Lyles”, so we can shout “Myles and Lyles” when they combine for a posterization on someone.
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Quasi off topic - but what if Embiid bolts, Alexander is ineligible, and Myles goes elsewhere? Four months ago that would have been pretty scary. Now, given Lucas’ play, it’s not quite as much of a worry.
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A great QOT question.
And I think Embiid bolting and Alexander having some kind of problems are not out of the question.
But if Embiid and Alexander were not here, I would think the odds were very high that Myles would sign with KU.
But of course you are not asking that. You are asking about Lucas’ readiness.
Lucas seems to have a lot in common with Jamari Traylor in a certain regard.
Both guys look good just standing around and look even better on the move.
But as we have learned with Jamari, there is a lot of difference between looking like TRob (massive shoulders) and playing like him.
And I suspect there would be a lot of difference between Lucas and Embiid.
You have often rightfully raised the point that a broad consensus among many recruiting services is rarely wrong about what a recruit can become in D1.
Self has gotten to coach quite a chain of highly rated bigs: Darrell Arthur, Cole, the Morrii, Withey, and now Joel. Some of these guys developed faster and some developed slower, but all were rather dominant once they got their bearings and got beyond injuries.
I kind of doubt Jam Tray and Lucas have the kind of chops needed to be starters that can dominate other teams and enable KU to win another conference title, even though they “look” darned good at times.
It takes draft choice scale bigs to win as much as KU has been winning for quite awhile now. And draft choice scale bigs tend to have been highly ranked by recruiting gurus. And neither Jam Tray, nor Lucas, were highly ranked.
That being said…
Nothing is written.
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We all know one thing… Self never stops recruiting.
He learned his lesson with Tarczewski. That really screwed us (at that moment) and Self hasn’t been the same recruiter ever since. Losing Tarc was probably a good thing for us!
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@HighEliteMajor Man, I’m SHOCKED to see you comforted by the glimpses shown by Lucas. But wasnt BigLL not even in the top100? Something must have changed…
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@ralster Yea, I know. But I am impressed with the guy. Just what I see. And I guess I’m not saying I would be comfortable with him starting. Just wouldn’t feel like we were staring into the abyss. And @jaybate , you don’t think we could win another conference title with Ellis, Lucas, Traylor, and Mickelson as our post guys? For some reason, I kind of do … kind of feel “entitled” to the league title, if you know what I mean. Will we ever not win a league title again? You are right, though. As we can be impressed with Traylor or Lucas, that is many times in small sample sizes. Over the long term, a lower talented guy will get exposed. And it’s pretty doubtful that Traylor or Lucas would drop 30 like Ellis did. But from what I’ve seen of Lucas in particular, I do think he could certainly be more than just serviceable. And, actually, if Embiid leaves and we don’t bag Turner, I really expect Lucas to play quite a bit next season.
But hey, let’s get Turner and not have to find out. Maybe let Lucas’ breakout season be his junior year.
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I know, I know. I can hear the distant snickers. Have already bunched up my shoulders and tucked in my chin, waiting for the barbs. But here goes. It is not yet written in stone that Andrew Wiggins is a GONE ENTITY, 2014-15. AW’s parents are very perceptive, very knowledgeable worldly wise former athletes. They know full well what their super talented son will step into once he flies the college coop. If Jabari Parker returns to play with freshman Okafor next season, why wouldn’t Andrew WIggins consider returning to play with JoJo or Cliff Alexander or Myles Turner next year? Age 19 is very very young to be cast into the works of the NBA Meatgrinder.
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@REHawk I keep asking my friends the same thing, answer’s the same, $$$$$
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There you go again, coach, being sensible and challenging assumptions.
A little voice has whispered from the beginning, “if Wigs and family were so certain about him being an OAD ready for the L now, why go to a coach and a school known for 2AD and 3AD development arcs; i.e., one that would put andrew on a rounded, long term, development strategy with a bunch of 3-4 year guys he were apt to pal up with?”
If they were sure Wigs were ready, maybe slam bam thank you Cal might have been the choice.
Maybe it wasn’t just the father of all basketball programs thing, or the ten titles and one ring thing, or what have you. Maybe they really knew and loved their son and wanted the “college” option for him if appropriate.
Remember, Father and Mother Wigs went to four years of college. They get the pros and cons of college.
Maybe they understood there was some slim chance their son might need a couple years. Not a huge chance, but some chance. Maybe Mr. Wigs goes out and plays a little 1on1 just to just to keep tabs with how strong his son is…and with how happy he is, with how much toll the hype has taken on his soul.
If I had a son and knew a lot about the profession he were entering, I would walk a tight rope urging him to work hard and purposefully, but also know the signs of readiness to enter the working world. If I thought he possibly weren’t ready, I would come and have a look for myself. I would blow my son’s horn, but also be ready to take the pressure of choice off him if I thought he were not ready, or were struggling. And I sure as hell would make my judgement tempered by what Mother Wiggins believed about her baby. Lastly, I would have my older son watch his games a few times over the year and listen to his take. And I would already have had him at a school where the option pre-existed to let him develop more slowly on and off the court. And then I would talk to my own closest friend, say a prayer, and tell my son what I thought was best, but then let him decide.
That’s what I would do, but I never played in the L, or in D1.
Not sayin’ he’s stayin’, just sayin’ always give the coach a listen, cuz he’s looked at ball from both sides now, from up and down and all around…
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@HighEliteMajor NotoriousBigLL “looks” very good to me. But I just haven’t seen enough yet. It’s such a huge step from looking good to starting in carefully selected trials and taking on all comers and winning titles. I wasn’t even sure about Cole A after his disrupting PSYCHO-T. I wasn’t sure about Joel even after I had said after watching his high school feeds he could be one of the great ones. So much of being a champion depends on being able to get better AFTER the opposing coaches expose your weaknesses that I just rarely am “sure” about such things.
One of the things about Wigs is that for all his stunning abilities, he has had some learning to do about how to get better in real time. He had just been so damned good he hadn’t had to learn how to get better when exposed by opposing coaches before the next game. It’s a knack like everything else. Self’s players become superb at it in time, but some take awhile to learn how to get better. You have to get to the point you view every flaw as just something else to get better at, not as something you might not be able to master. The great ones become masters of mastering things.
I have to see more of Landen, before I can say. But he “looks” good.
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@HighEliteMajor I’m starting to think we could win another conference title with the three stooges and Abbott and Costello, with Scooby-doo and the gang coming off the bench - as long as Bill Self is the coach!
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@jaybate 1.0
The reality is that for Wiggins, it’s not just about the money from an NBA contract. The money he could get from a shoe endorsement dwarfs that. Wigs, by nature of being Canadian, could be the most popular basketball player in the growing Canadian market by a long stretch. Every kid from Montreal to Toronto to Vancouver, and everywhere in between would want the Wiggy kicks.
I don’t know what that’s worth, exactly, but its worth quite a bit. However, it’s only worth quite a bit for the current version of Wiggins - the high flying athletic marvel. The NBA money will almost certainly be there, even if he gets injured and has to adapt his game (God forbid). The shoe money, that’s not assured, especially if he’s not a stylish, high flying dunker that kids are emulating on nerf hoops.
That, to me, is the bigger issue here. Wiggs has a chance to make a lot of money from his specific style of basketball, just because he can reach a market in a way no other player probably can. In the same way Jeremy Lin is the most popular player in China and has lots of endorsement opportunities there that American players do not have Wiggs could do that in Canada. And Lin, though a good player, isn’t exactly a superstar. Wiggins could be, which gives crossover appeal to the US market.
