Jan 18 Post Game Roundup: KU vs OSU
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@JayHawkFanToo I would really like to see an explanation of that double foul. Never seen anything like that. One play, lots of contact, but you have to assign blame to one player, or none. If the refs can’t agree, it should be a no-call.
Our bench is deeper, so a double foul instead of none benefits us. Still, it was odd.
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@KUSTEVE “Embeast” is great! Or should it be “Embiist”, I’m not sure. Anyway, great find.
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Yeah, for all the hype (Keegans, Seth Davis in the pre-game) about how he gets up for the biggest games, it was sure a poor performance. Agree on the kudos to Self for sitting him.
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Not sure it was so much the press as much as it was OSU getting hot from 3, but yeah, some of the turnovers were maddening.
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The prevailing thinking seems to be that he shrinks in the more physical games. And while OSU was thin up front, it was a physical contest. And I can forgive Jamari’s lack of rebounding yesterday. I’ve been singing his praises for awhile now (on kusports.com). Where he was once described as being a marginal player on a team the caliber of the Jayhawks, he’s now an asset off the bench.
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His defense is hard to mask, but he’s got the hot hand right now.
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With Embiid dominating the second half, it was as if Self just choose Traylor over Black. No big qualms there, as Jamari played well and there are only so many post minutes to be had. Black & Traylor together is fun to watch.
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No complaints about the quick hook yesterday. HIs passing it off with a second left on the shot clock was ridiculous.
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I share your frustration, but if we’re going to excuse all of Tharpe’s shortcomings due to an excellent offensive performance, maybe the same should go for Selden due to an excellent defensive showing? My problem was that with Wiggins riding the pine, Self plugged Mason in instead of Greene. No offense to Mason, and there are definitely times I like having both Mason & Tharpe on the court at the same time, it just seems like there were second half minutes to be had by Greene.
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Puzzling. Doghouse? Undisclosed injury? Impending transfer following the season?
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As it was described on a recent telecast, he doesn’t seem to be a “pure point guard”, but more of a “third down back”. I think the experiment of him starting earlier in the year proved he wasn’t quite ready to lead the team. He’s definitely valuable in his role, and hopefully can improve on his game to include driving with the intent to dish as his career progresses.
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I was screaming at the TV when he got that foul hedging. That aside, wow. So special. Perhaps his destiny can also be leading us to the promised land?
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@ParisHawk I saw it on a tweet, and really liked it. I can’t wait for March to see how far he progresses.
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@HighEliteMajor Timefor anotherclassic HEM/kD disagreement
On point 2, yes, we didn’t do great against the press, however, lack of preparation wasn’t the problem this time. Lack of preparation means no plan and/or no practice. Since neither of us get to actually sit in on KU practices, neither of us is truly able to say beyond conjecture exactly what gets practiced, but I think it’s safe to assume that at some point over the winter break, press breaking was worked on to some extent. And just watching the first few possessions of the second half, it becomes immediately clear that guys knew what they were supposed to be doing, but failed to execute. You say the plan was to passively pass over the press. I’m a little surprised to hear that from you, honestly. The first time this team struggled with a press on the year, you delivered an excellent treatise on how to break the press, which included passing over it. There was nothing passive about the tactic. Yes, guys dribbled toward the trap areas, but that’s what you do if you’re going to pass over a press. You can’t pass the ball away until you draw the trap defenders towards you, and you’re not going to draw trap defenders towards you without moving towards the trap areas. Simply launching the ball down the court is going to lead to live-ball turnovers and run-outs. I suppose you can criticize the strategy, but it was one that, if you didn’t advocate it yourself, you at least admitted its viability.Now, we don’t get a good look at the first pressing possession, at least from CBS. Joel’s block on Nash leads to a shot clock violation. The camera actually catches Smart signalling his team for the press, but the possession itself gets lost between camera cuts. There’s a steal in the back court and a layup from Nash. I’ll chalk that one up to caught off guard. The following possession, the guys move to their press-break positions. Tharpe advances the ball, then passes to Selden. Selden moves towards the trap, the trappers start to move, then Selden reacts to pass back to Tharpe. Unfortunately, he’s a little antsy and takes a stutter-step before he makes the pass and gets called for the travel. In the next possession, Selden gets the ball in the same position, finds Embiid on the sideline on the look ahead, makes the pass and it leads to a beautiful alley-oop to Ellis. And on the next, Selden recognizes the same situation, but this time passes while Embiid isn’t looking. The pass whizzes by and, despite his fantastic length and speed, Embiid is unable to make the save back to his teammates.
I could go on from here, but I think the point has been made. There was a clear plan. When the plan was executed, it did what it was supposed to do and led to easy buckets. When it wasn’t, it led to turnovers. Luckily, most of them were dead-ball, but either way, it quickly got OSU back in the game. Now, I suppose you could make the case that poor execution of a plan is lack of preparation, but in my opinion, it’s just lack of experience. Practice as much as you want, but there is no substitute for the real thing. Selden didn’t respond well, but he knew how he was supposed to respond. Mason and Tharpe both had instances of where they dribbled too far into the traps or their outlets moved too late or too far and wound up in trouble, but regardless, they seemed to know what they were supposed to do. Again, if you want to make the argument that passing over the press isn’t the right way for this team to approach the issue, fine. But they had a plan and were clearly instructed in how to execute it. Self can teach them what to do, but he can’t very well jump in and run the point himself.
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@jaybate 1.0 Was Self “holding his horses”? Was that why he didn’t play Black 2nd half? Is he trying to hold this team back so they don’t peak too early?
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Well, I’m not totally bad luck I guess! What a great game to experience live. It leaves me wondering: why are my anxiety valleys and peaks so much less when I watch the game in person, versus watching it on television and enduring the commercial breaks? There is some sort of psychological phenomena at play there , I believe.
On to random thoughts…
I really enjoyed seeing the interaction between Coach Self & Brannen Greene on the sidelines. I’m starting to get the feeling that Self has really high hopes for Greene and is grooming him to explode. If you look at the 4:50 ish mark in the first half after Greene misses the open three and then gets burnt on d so badly, you can see why Greene can’t quite stay on the floor right now.
As far as calling for Selden to have less playing time, he was the only guy who could really guard Smart. Mason did okay, and bothered him with his feistiness, but the lob inside to Marcus over the smaller Mason illustrated perfectly why Marcus demands a top defender.
For such a poor statistical performance, Wiggins had an exceptional attitude after the game. I believe that is promising and shows that he really is more of a team player and prefers playing within the structure of the game. The problem I see with him is that he is now too predictable from an offensive standpoint. All of the moves that worked for him vs inferior talent (High School) is being scouted against and defended very well at this level, and he has not adjusted. I really look for him to be stronger with the ball while splitting defenders in the paint. Marcus Smart wore off on him in the sense that Wiggins seemed to be going for the Oscar nomination on a few plays instead of actually going to the rack like he cant be denied. 2 rebounds and no free throws, so he doesn’t pass my “effort” test, but I also get the feeling maybe he was a decoy yesterday.
Selden is now part of the press break, to have that taller guard cross half court. I was calling for a taller guard to pass over the top after drawing the trap, because Mason & Naa are 5’9 maybe 5’10 and really struggle there. We were three Selden turnovers from three more ally-oops. This is definitely correctable.
Self made the mistake of handing The Keys to Wiggins early in the season, but has totally redeemed himself by giving them back to Naadir and now we are headed down the right path. Definitely on the upward side of the peak.
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@konkeyDong I’ll hit right on the press issue. Really appreciate the discussion. I did not say that we did not have a press break strategy. I said we just had one. Sitting back, which we did, and passively passing over the top, is a flawed strategy. You must be aggressive and crisp. But it can’t be your only press break.
There are two main points to my criticism. 1) That we have we have just one press break strategy, and 2) that we approach a press passively.
Very importantly, the press did change the game and allowed them to get the lead cut to 5 by the 13:29 mark. The press changed the pace of the game, it changed the momentum, it allowed OSU to get fired up, and it changed who was in control.
-The press changed the pace of the game from KU being into control, to OSU.
-OSU got a steal and a quick bucket off the press at 18:20, lead 48-32.
-OSU got a steal and three pointer off the press at 18:07, lead cut to 48-35.
-OSU got a steal, but didn’t score at 16:48.
-There was the tech on Embiid, lead cut to 52-44.
-Wiggins turns it over, just following the press break, rushing a drive that wasn’t there, Forte for three, lead cut to 54-47.
-Then after Forte’s made three, the ball bounces around, Traylor walks away from it, we get the ball in. Selden then throws it away, the same cross court pass the Tharpe; Forte pumps his fist; Brown hits a three, lead cut to 55-50.
I’m sorry, here, but it was the press that changed everything. Lead cut to five. New ballgame.
On the first point, there is simply no denying that we employed just one strategy to break the 2-2-1 half court trap. Self had his two guards, Tharpe and Selden, get the ball to near half court, then pass either back to the other guard, cross court, or to a big guy at the wing/corner. During OSU’s run to cut it to five, we did get one lob dunk out of that strategy.
My criticism is the the following:
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Self had our 3 camp near the top of the key. He did not have him flash. So he was useless. We never threw one pass to the 3 in the middle. And the three never created even a diversion to permit a different pass. You can use the 3 to flash, draw a hard recover by the defender, which then opens a passing opportunity. We did not do that at all. Getting a flasher the ball allows the flasher then to turn and attack, or pass to the 1 or 2 guard streaking down the sideline (whichever side has the defender that recovered on the second level. That’s attacking.
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Self did not employ any screens against the zone press. For example, the 3 coming up and back screening say Marcus Smart in the front of the zone so a guard can dribble to defeat it. Screening against any zone is a huge part of the strategy. That’s attacking.
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Our guards never once took the ball hard on the dribble, and hit a seam. My opinion is that if you do not have enough confidence in your point guard’s ball handling to do that, he should not be on the court. Both Tharpe and Mason are capable of that. It needs to be part of the strategy. That’s attacking.
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We employed exactly the same floor spacing and positioning. 2 guard facing the front side of the 2-2-1. It is acceptable to attack and even front with and odd front, going with 1 or 3. A flasher can come from 1 of those 3. And each time, we left our post guys back, waiting. Changing floor positioning is aggressive. It needs to be part of the strategy. That’s attacking.
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Further, we did not try a skip pass. This is risky. it’s one that was wide open vs. Villanova. A pass from near court, just before the half court line to the opposing wing. That area was open as the 3 in the middle drew the defender. It is not to be tried every time. It is risky. It depends on the athleticism of the back defender, too. It is part of a strategy. That’s attacking.
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Finally, one of my pet peevs. We allow OSU to set up on a made basket. The guy closest to the ball does not throw it in. On the last turnover by Selden noted above, Traylor just watched the ball bouncing away while OSU set up. To be aggressive against a zone, you have the guy closest to the ball throw it in immediately, many times you can get the ball to a guard a bit on the run. Against a 2-2-1, the middle is vulnerable. That’s attacking.
But with regularity, we sent lob passes between our two guards just before half court. Our passes were not crisp. And we did not attack open areas with our passing.
Most importantly, though, we had just one passive strategy to attempt to defeat the press. It’s easy to prepare for. I would expect a D-1 team to have a myriad of press break strategies. Simply called by name. To mix things up, to make an opposing team pay for the temerity of even thinking of pressing us.
You say that it is lack of experience. Do you think these guys maybe saw a 2-2-1 3/4 court press before? They were given one strategy to break it. Just one.
And you mention lack of execution. Remember Atlantis? We weren’t prepared. Then Self admitted they weren’t prepared for the post trapping vs. SDSU. Then Self admitted yesterday that they weren’t prepared to foul with the lead because they hadn’t practiced it. Lack of preparation is an issue.
The strategy employed Saturday was insufficient (I nearly said incompetent, but didn’t). Ok, I’ll say this – it was borderline incompetent.
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Long time lurker, love reading everyone’s posts.
Not sure if I’m doing this correctly, but wanted to share something
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@eleehehe It worked! Keep sharing.
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@icthawkfan316 Good to see your gap toothed avatar back! Keep posting, I like what you write.
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@KUSTEVE, its not a question of peaking too early at this point. It is more a matter of trying to figure out how to win both games this weekend.
Self was probably pretty confident heading out the second half that he could win the game and wanted to give his starters some limited minutes. He knew by game time in the first half that Baylor had been extended to the buzzer, so he knew he could either play some of his guys that would be needed against Baylor’s height less.
But then OSU’s 2-2-1 press the second half surprised and put Self on the defensive. They had pretty clearly not prepared for it. Facing that defense unprepared is very tough and TOs are sure to follow, no matter who you play. Your only option is to play the guys that you think will bake fewer pop tarts, not no pop tarts.
When Self gets surprised he tends toward his most experienced guys. Thus, Selden may have been playing bad, but he was likely to make fewer mistakes under the pressure of the 2-2-1 than Frank, or Greene, while the team was adjusting to playing against it. I frankly think Self has some doubts about Wiggins and Ellis’ abilities to read and adjust to new things. He sure as heck did not want Greene, or Frankamp, in against a 2-2-1 press. He didn’t even want Mason in it until Mason had had a chance to watch it awhile and specific situation arose where Mason could contribute something specifically needed. Mason was brought in to attack Brown with three fouls and foul him out. He could have kept Selden in but Selden needed a blow and he did not want to waste Selden’s fouls further trying to foul Brown out. When Brown fouled out, Selden hadn’t played very well, and was exhausted, so Mason got to stay in against the shorter subs. Tharpe had to stay in, because it took Tharpe and Mason to break the 2-2-1, even part of the time.
Why was Traylor in instead of Ellis? The problem was that KU kept getting pushed farther and farther out. Self wanted someone that could push in.
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Awesome. I by no means take any credit for these photos. If you haven’t seen yet, there is a thread on phog.net dedicated to Marcus Smart photoshops.
Great analysis here, so glad I found the old kusports crew.
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@jaybate 1.0 That has to be it. He’s thinking Baylor as well. Makes sense. I will be so happy when we learn to beat the press. Our team could have some spectacular run outs with the crew we have. That was the one thing Roy used to do so well - beating the press. I still remember when Pitino decided he would press us all day, and we scored 150 against Kentucky.
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@HighEliteMajor I think that konkeyDong is right about it being a lack of execution rather than preparation. In the post game press conference, Self clearly states that they knew that OSU was going to press. They simply did not execute.
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Great discussion. As DinarHawk points out, we knew they would press, but we didnt execute as well as we could have.
One point to consider, especially if we think that every opponent should press us since we are bad at it, as shown in various games (especially at FL), is that “pressing defense” may not be in our opponents arsenals. To do it right, must practice it, or else opponent will break it quickly and expose you. I think for most non-pressing teams (like KU also is), using a press defense is a “junk” or gimmick defense.
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Monday Night Baylor will be hungry for a victory. They will not eat with us. Don’t you think Wiggs goes for 24-10-8. Ellis gets back to basics, rebounds!
On the times in the game that Black and Traylor are in , I just sit and smile at how strong is our bench. For one am becoming more and more of a Selden fan, give him the green light, he will be our Shady for this year Final Four, secret but not secret if that makes sense.
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@eleehehe PHOF photo. I LOVED it. Even my wife KSU gal laughed out load.
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@Blown Good to know you are not bad luck!
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@DinarHawk: Self expected pressing but it’s clear Ford set him up with the junk presses in the first half, then totally fooled him with the 2-2-1 second half. The first half junk presses were some of the most cockeyed I ever saw. And meant to give Self and staff the wrong press to talk about at Hal time; then WHAM! Open in a well drilled 2-2-1 and sustain till KU cracked from trying to run a press break technique for the wrong press. Ford was brilliant. No way was Self copping to getting tricked. He just smoothed it over it saying with out specificity that they knew they would press. Each zone requires guys to start in different spots and break to different seams to break it. You are trying to get to the seams, then break guys to the next open space based on where the zone will deform next. 1-2-1-1 is a game of drAwing point and wing to the ball and passing behind the wing and quickly pivoting to breakers down the sideline before the second one can block the passing Lane. It unfolds down the sideline. KU HAD PREPPED FOR THAT AND DID OK THE FIRST HALF. The 2-2-1 surprised them and they never once got the ball into hole between the 2-2, so they never deformed the zone so and got to hit breaks at the point of deformation on the back two so the anchor never had to commit away from the iron so no easy baskets were had. Passing over the top of a 2-2-1 is roulette. Bounce passes are the coin of the realm. Self got snookered.
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@HighEliteMajor Ok. Did we employ one strategy against the press? Sure. But you’re trying to set up a false dilemma here. You don’t need more than one strategy to break a press any more than you need separate toasters for white and wheat bread, you just need to be able to execute the strategy. That isn’t to say there’s no room for variation, but that’s tactics, not strategy. I don’t disagree with your break down of the course of events as it’s described. It’s the same stuff I was going over. But what you’re identifying as passivity is actually naivete. You identify where OSU was successful with the press, but neglect to mention specifically why.
The steals happened when guys made mistakes. Failure to execute isn’t the same thing as failure to plan, nor the same thing as failure of strategy. When Tharpe picks up the ball before he’s drawn trap defenders, then gets picked, it’s not because the strategy failed. He picked up the ball too soon. That’s not part of the strategy. The other guys either didn’t see this or didn’t react in time and there’s a TO. Selden throwing the sideline pass to Embiid when he isn’t looking is more on Embiid than Selden and again, not part of the strategy. Selden was impatient. Embiid was in the right general area, but didn’t have his head up. Wigs not recognizing and attacking into defenders with numbers after breaking the press is a classic freshman mistake and not part of the strategy. Again, patience, recognition. Those are things he’s struggled with throughout the year, and he was especially bad about in this game.
Experience makes the difference here. These issues go away as players get more reps. You also mention the PGs not attacking with the drive, but that’s not true. There were a couple of times where Mason or Tharpe made a great drive over the half court line only to find out that their outlet(s) didn’t advance with them and they wound up in a bad situation until a cutter could recognize and save the play. That’s execution. And it’s clear that lob passing back and forth in the back court wasn’t the ONLY thing being done. In fact, Selden doesn’t often throw lobs. He line drives. The rainbow passes tend to originate with Tharpe and Mason and are largely a product of practicality more so than anything else. At 5’10" or 5’11" each, they’re the shortest guys on the court. If they’re going to pass over a trap set by 6’2" and 6’3"+ guards, that’s how they have to throw. And lob passing itself isn’t inherently passive either. Forcing the defense to shift is aggressive. Driving the ball towards the trap, springing it, then passing out, even lob passing, is part of a strategy. It’s attacking.
Mixing up the general strategy (passing over the press), however, is irrelevant. When KU executed, they were successful as evidenced by the times they were able to get easy buckets, and even the times they simply set up and ran the half court offense. It isn’t merely luck. It’s what’s supposed to happen. So no, I can’t swallow any notion that this is generally poor strategy on Self’s part unless you can come up with something more convincing. Now, that’s not to say I’m not open to some of your criticism. Particularly, I strongly agree with #6. The easiest way to break a press is to get the ball moving before the D can get set up and KU was entirely too lax with getting the ball inbound when they should have known the press was coming. On #5, I’m not sure this team has the length to skip pass, but it’s doable. #4 is irrelevant if you simply execute with the 2 guard front. Draw a trap and there’s always someone open. That’s about as fundamental as it gets. #3 I flat out dispute as true, and I likewise would put a Benjamin down that if you call into Hawktalk this week and ask if Tharpe and Mason have the green light to drive against the press, Self would give you a resounding yes and tell you that’s something that they work on.
As for the first two (don’t know why I went reverse order, but here we are), these would be nice wrinkles to add. In fact, I’d even add to #1 that it could be advantageous to put Embiid in the 3 position of the press break especially when Wigs is in, but I have a different argument for you altogether for these. I’ve talked a lot about lack of experience, but really that phrase means two things. KU is the 5th youngest team in the country so it’s fair to say, they don’t have a lot of experience playing at the college level. Even Tharpe, the most veteran guy on the team, averaged sub 20 minutes per game in the year prior. So yeah, guys are getting thrown into a lot of situations that are unfamiliar. But you’re incredulous, and rightly so, that these kids wouldn’t be familiar with attacking a 2-2-1 press. Given that most of them (save Embiid and Traylor) have been playing competitive ball for more than half their lives, I’d be a fool to disagree with that assessment. Still, as a team, they’ve only been playing together a couple of months and they still make mistakes that show exactly that. The very first TO Selden had in the 2nd half wasn’t because of the press. It was the very first possession, in fact, where Perry was posted with great position, Selden had the passing angle, recognized, and fired the ball to Perry. It’s difficult to tell from the camera angle if Selden threw the ball out of reach or if Ellis didn’t go after it quickly enough, but what should have been as easy a finish at the rim as you can get became a horrible mistake. Now I doubt you’d try to argue to me that posting and feeding with a lead pass from the wing is bad or passive strategy, but this is essentially what you’re telling me about Self’s press break and again, I’m forced to disagree without a more compelling argument.
I’ve digressed quite a bit here, so back to my broader point. These guys haven’t played together a ton and likewise, Self hasn’t had a ton of time to cram everything in. Admittedly, our press break strategy is the simplest and most straightforward implementation of a press break you can get, but I still disagree that it’s in any way passive. It would be nice to add these wrinkles (points 1 and 2), but, as we’ve seen, the guys still haven’t mastered the basic implementation of the strategy (draw the trap, reverse the ball, look for easy outlets, repeat), so I’m not sure how practical it is to try and add screening and cutting on to the existing plan unless and until they look comfortable in the first place. The lack of execution that I’ve been stressing doesn’t exist because these kids haven’t seen this stuff before. It doesn’t exist because they don’t know what they’re supposed to do. It exists because they haven’t run this stuff together so much that it’s become second nature. Now, you can argue that that’s what practice is for, but there’s two problems there: practice is no substitute for game time, and there’s an opportunity cost for focusing on one area over another. Would you rather work shoring up our 3pt shooting (we’re averaging 40% now in Big 12 play) or work on the press break? What about defensive rotations that were so loose through the nonconf schedule? You’ve seen the same improvement I have there, haven’t you? So while I don’t disagree that he press break is lagging, I think that’s a matter of necessity more than anything else. There simply isn’t enough time in the year to cover all of the warts on a team. That’s why freshmen (as in multiple) led title teams have been the exception (2012), not the rule (pretty much the rest of NCAA history). So will we likely see more of the press as conf play continues? Sure, but that’s to our benefit, not our detriment. Even if we pick up a loss or two because of it, getting the reps will make the team better at execution, and those passive mistakes that are making your head ache now will be fewer and further between. Trust.
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@DinarHawk Don’t let that point convince you. Self said that prior to the SDSU game that they knew SDSU would trap the post. And he then admitted on Hawk Talk that they should have prepared better for that.
@konkeyDong We’ll just have to agree to disagree here. You seem to think mixing up strategy is “irrelevant.” I cannot disagree more. Defenses adjust to what they see. Variations keep them a step slow.
You seem to think that that the guys not executing has little to do with proper preparation. I’m curious as to how you explain the points Self has admitted to regarding not preparing? And don’t you think it’s reasonable that our guys, with their relative inexperience at the D-1 level, were under- prepared?
And I don’t “trust.” I watched us lose to Michigan when our guys were not instructed to foul. I hear coach Self yesterday say that we haven’t worked on fouling in such a situation.
I’ve coached a lot of basketball, and this isn’t rocket science. Press break needs to be aggressive, and varied. Quite frankly, the bigger guys are, the easier it is to break because they can pass the ball further. We did the same thing, and did it poorly. As a result, our 17 point lead turned to 5. In the tourney, that spells disaster – see Michigan.
Thanks for the excellent discussion.
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@Wishawk you’re a good man, wish.
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why are my anxiety valleys and peaks so much less when I watch the game in person, versus watching it on television and enduring the commercial breaks?
@Blown Because you were in the Cathedral.
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@Blown: you experience less anxiety in AFH than on the Tube for the following reasons:
a) TV is designed to condition you with paradox, then pain and pleasure stimuli, followed by a consume suggestion, whereas AFH, while an environment now highly designed to make you contribute to fan noise is not designed to paradox you, and deliver you pain and pleasure stimuli with a consume suggestion;
b) you are participating in and editing your experience, rather than having it parsed up and fed to you in bytes beyond your control;
c) you are renewed by renewing a connection with an aspect of your own legacy that you recall fondly–direct, bodily participation in the living myth of KU basketball (i.e., the pilgrimage effect); and
d) rekindling of the long dormant mating search; i.e., the visceral search for flesh and blood, imperfect, but truly nubile babes and occassionally finely kept women of experience populated in unusually high densities that you could actually chat up if the spirit moved you, if you were to follow them out to the concourse at half time;
There are other reasons, but they pale in comparison.
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@jaybate 1.0 Jaybate, I love your new icon (I think that’s the right term). Please explain it. Is it a glass of champagne to toast KU Buckets, or the Holy Grail of an NCAA Championship, perhaps? It is much easier for me to click on “Users” and find your recent posts. I probably could do that more easily by become a “Follower” but I haven’t figured that one out yet.
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@eleehehe oh man that was priceless!
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@HighEliteMajor @Konkeydong, You guys waxing basketball philosophic and discussing rules and strategy is very informative for us mere learners of the game. I love it, even though I don’t quite understand half of it yet. But, I’m slowly starting to pick up more and more between you guys and Jaybate.
I would like to make a point of my own here, just a simple observation. As similar as that game was to the infamous Michigan game last year, We Won. We won with a young and still a bit green inside team. Granted it was on our home court and not a neutral Tourney site. Last years mega experienced yet not quite so talented and athletic team would have lost this game also, I think. EJ would have turned it over a dozen times instead of the 6 that Tharpe had. Which so far this year has been a rarity for him. We haven’t had a PG with this good of asst/to ratio since Russ, Chalmers, Collins.
I absolutely trust our boys to learn from this and improve upon it. If they don’t, we might as well call for Bill’s resignation. Remember, this is a marathon. We don’t have to win out from here, Id prefer not to in fact. I hope during the rest of our conference, we see the2 2 1 press a few more times so our guys can get comfortable with breaking it down, and also so that I can get to know what I am looking at when it happens. Id bet money that Okie state runs it again when we play them on March 1. I hope we can go there and stuff it down their throats by then.
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First of all… I have often thought that some posters are too sensitive about comments / opinions made by the TV commentators and just can’t handle the truth. I try to be as objective as I can, but I think Gottlieb was obvious in his bias against KU and it came off as unprofessional. What did Embiid do to earn the T? Just his language? I couldn’t tell from the TV coverage.
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@wissoxfan83 Thanks buddy. Still trying to figure out exactly how this site works, but can’t beat the familiar faces!
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@icthawkfan316 you’re back! Love it. Post, post, post.
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@tubertigertank, it is rare when I get a warm and friendly post from an alias that ties potatoes (tubers), tigers (MU potential) and heavy WWII German armor (tiger tank) together.:-)
I will try to answer your question. Other folks can skip this response, since I’ve told it before a few times over the years. I used to use a photo for an avatar. HEM recently dredged one up off the internet either identical, or very much like it, thinking I seemed digitally misaligned without it.
It was reputedly from Lucas/Spielberg’s Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade movie. It was reputedly that movie’s version of the The Holy Grail that Indie and his father found at the end of the movie. It was tarnished and blood stained. I liked that. I picked it many years ago as a symbol of KU being the place that the true spirit of the game of college basketball–played the right way, coached the right way, recruited the right way–was being preserved and protected. The idea was to remind myself and others that the Jayhawk faithful ought to act as the guardians of college basketball the way the knight of grail legend stands guard dutifully and humbly, in an out of the way place protecting the actual holy grail of legend. It occurred to me to pick that image, because it seemed a time when the game was getting ever rougher, corrupt recruiting seemed to be on the rise, TV and gaming seemed to be wagging the dog of basketball, and all manner of business dynamics were stressing the deep virtues of game IMHO.
As I often do, I tried to be somewhat playful with the idea at times. At one point I wrote about the basketball grail being located in a tomb under the center jump circle under Naismith Court and under Allen Field House. I wrote about hoping that one of my favorite posters, someone with the alias of 100, an alias that had reputedly died after years of posting and passing on his rare insights about the early days of basketball at KU, and about the game today, had taken over guarding the grail under center court. I wrote that I hoped when I finally die to get a chance to guard the grail with 100. And probably other things. So that explains how I came to be associated with what I call a “basketball grail” for an avatar, or what you called an icon.
Being that I am a rather strange combination of liking not to change things like an avatar for years at a time, plus a person that then likes to change for intuitive reasons, some time in the last year, or so, there was a situation at a prior site where in the avatars seemed to disappear for a time. This caused me to think about a new avatar. I like to paint with both analog and digitally, and so I cobbled up an impression of a grail that I liked and, if I recall correctly, used it briefly. Then I decided to step away from posting for quite awhile for a constellation of personal reasons, not the least having been health, and so I promptly misplaced both previous avatars. For awhile after returning to posting here at KUBuckets, I did not use an avatar. But then HEM, a self confessed button pusher (i.e., a coach :-)), posed a jpeg very similar to the old grail I used to use, and I suddenly felt like a party pooper not using an avatar. So: I suddenly felt like doing something fresh for reasons that always elude me, because I know on many levels that photo HEM snagged for me off the net better conveys my intentions. But as I get older, and the finiteness of life becomes more real, I am more inclined to do something original than something good.
So: I dashed off the avatar you have remarked on and there you have it. It is a golden goblet, compressed in a reference to the continuing top down pressures on the game. Alas, it is rather closer to a martini glass than the traditional glass, though that was not an intended allusion, though I confess it might have been on a subconscious level.
It is a bright yellow-gold to be both golden like the grail legend and yellow like the Jayhawk’s beak. It brims with crimson blood instead of being empty, as is the religious grail for my grail signifies not the holy spirit (which I believe in and mean no disrespect to) but rather the blood, sweat and sacrifice that have gone into making KU basketball great and keeping it great. The crimson blood also is meant to suggest that guarding the basketball grail is not always fun and trendy. Sometimes one is perceived as being hopelessly naive and behind the times, the way sinners and the secular scoff at the old knight that wastes his life away guarding what seems to them an empty goblet. And the blood spills over a bit to remind that no guardians can be perfect in their vigilance. That they can make mistakes and must be ready to admit error and get better whenever needed. The blue background of course is the KU blue of imagination. So:there you have the probably tedious story of jaybate’s avatar.
Rock Chalk!
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@ParisHawk Thanks for making me feel welcome. I hibernate during much of the off-season, then came back to kusports.com and it took me awhile to figure out where everyone was, then I still resisted and held out over there for awhile, but it’s just not the same without the old gang! Good to see you around here as well my friend.
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@icthawkfan316 We lack the steady trickle of lurkers here that lead to a lot of beat the gopher workouts. We also have slow periods, but also no imbecility. I am rather less of presence here, and something of a Johnny Come Lately due to some health issues, so slayr and HEM carry the mail most of the time. Approx and bskeet make the site run. A lot of good aliases contribute in smaller bytes and some that used to write less are writing more. Community size ramped quickly to 200 and then grew slowly to a current 266. No one beats up on anyone here. Fight club posting is planet. Very collegial. Look forward to reading your stuff.
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@jaybate 1.0 @HighEliteMajor @drgnslayr
Jaybate - that all sounds great. I guess the only thing that is giving me trouble navigating is that the posting seems to be all over the place. On kusports.com, we all usually gravitated towards the daily Bedore article. That was the main forum. For example, I posted something today thinking I would get responses (I posed a question to posters), but I think the thread went stale and the majority of the conversation went elsewhere. I do like the notifications here, and being able to follow our favorites.
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What browser are you using? I have all kinds of issues with the latest MS IE. I now keep KU Buckets open in Firefox and seems to work a lot better.
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@icthawkfan316 Approx and skeet have been trying some different ways of aggregating links to news stories and links to threads started by our members. Your post may have gotten lost in that shuffle. I may have had one get lost too. They are trying to find a method of aggregation that keeps the manual load off them, since their roles are entirely voluntary, and something that keeps the home page as clean and quick to access as possible. The home page was getting clogged with looooooooog lists of posts, so, most recently, he and skeet decided to try gathering headlines in one clump, and thread starting posts by users in another clump day by day.
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Headlines (each day’s date): this link is where approx, skeet and we aliases place links to off-site news stories thought to be of interest (e.g., KUSports.com, CJOnline, KC and Wichita papers, and occasionally links to recruiting sites and national portals like ESPN);
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Our Daily Threads (each day’s date): this link lists threads community members start.
I usually check the headlines and daily bread links once or twice a day, and the rest of the time just go straight to the RECENT link on the top menu. I am also slowly staring to use the UNREAD link on the top menu a bit more.
We are making this thing up as we go. Try to remember that where as the commercial sites are using full time staff to “design” and create as much page information density as possible, we are doing the opposite. We are always trying to find elegant, low site maintenance ways to keep Approx and skeet as uninvolved as possible, within the constraint of the node bb/github open source community platform. And we are trying to follow the Google aesthetic model (not their surveillance model) that the less clutter the better. Hence the white background and limited palate of colors and graphics. Nested commentary is not supported by the folks at node bb/github without extra support, so that is why nested comments as you are used to on KUSports.com does not appear. UNREAD links is the work around. You can drag and drop an image into the commentary window with ease, however. Elegance is always a tug of war between over simplification and dullness vs. over complexity and tedium. As usual, others know more than I. I frankly am still learning it a bit.
My guess is your post got swept into a category
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@jaybate 1.0 Thanks for the thought-provoking answer on your avatar. It means so much more with the creator’s explanation.
“Tuber” (I tend to get a spare tire around my waist), “Tiger,” and “Tank” have been nicknames my brothers and friends have given me in the past. Over the past 5 years the tube has been deflated quite a bit, thankfully.
“Tiger” has nothing to do with those nasty black/yellow polecats to the East. I still despise them, but not as intensely as when they regularly got so close to our noses several times a year.
I’ve been a Jayhawk fan since I moved to KC in 1982. My daughter got her undergraduate degree and Masters in international business from KU about 13 years ago. She was a national merit finalist and got a free ride all the way–actually made money! She has a wonderful career going in the US State Dept.
I love this board, but find I have to check a few more places to make sure I’m not missing great information from favorite posters.
My greatest sorrow these days is KU Athletic Director’s decision to deprive me and my Jayhawk fan wife from watching 6 games a year on my new big screen TV. I’ve resorted to hitting the bars (which she can’t do because of health issues). I talked to a Surewest customer service rep yesterday who said he doesn’t think Surewest will be able to carry all games next year either.
I share your highest respect for HCBS. I told my wife KU ought to hire Bill Self long before anyone ever mentioned his name as a candidate for the job.
Keep up the great posts. You amaze me with your knowledge of basketball, the military, engineering, design, and so many other subjects. If it wasn’t so overused, I’d call you a true Renaissance man.
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@jaybate 1.0 @approxinfinity
Thank you both for explaining some things to me. I hope in my confusion I didn’t come off as complaining. Furthest thing from it. I think the site is an awesome idea and I applaud those that are making it happen on their own time.
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I share you feelings about our Athletic Director. Last time I talked to Surewest, now called Consolidated Communications, they indicated that they were in talks with Metro Sports, but the clear implication was that since they got the KU programming, the cost had gone up considerably making it almost prohibitively expensive for the other carriers, and clearly hoping that complaints from thousands a of fans would force other providers to carry Metro Sports.
Unlike the Adidas contract that pays a boat load of money, provides equipment to all school teams, and does not require fans to buy or wear Adidas gear in order to watch games, the Metro Sports contract does not pay any money to KU Athletics but provides sports programming “valued” at $2M, and in the process, has left a huge number of Jayhawk fan unable to watch many basketball and football games, so a dozen people around the country can watch the women’s rowing team?
Some day, when all the real details of this arrangement are revealed, people are going to lose their jobs.
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@jaybate 1.0 thanks for the explanation of the Grail. That was a good read. (Plus, my son and I are huge fans of that Indy movie.)
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@tubertigertank, and thank you for explaining your very entertaining alias. Every man goes through a tube phase. Bully for you for shrinking yours! You probably can’t get any sleep at all because of how handsome you are to your beloved.
And I respect you so much for getting your daughter through school and into the State Dept. She must lead a fascinating life serving our country. It is an awesomely positive reflection on the work you put in for her.
The situation with the AD and the TV contract is frustrating. The only justification for it is that KU probably has some regulatory obligations to the minor sports that included getting them some broadcast time. Paying cash to broadcast them might have been prohibitively expensive. Also, Zenger perhaps felt the need to pinch pennies after KU had to go to the alumni trough to shed Gill, then hire Weis, then raise cash to renovate the football stadium AND build the new apartment building for the athletes. It could have been as simple as he just did not want to go to the alumni AGAIN with so many other bigger projects requiring bigger funding and donations. Zenger has spent big to restructure Self’s contract again, too. So maybe Sheahon had to look for a way to meet the possible regulatory obligation to the minor sports that did not mean shelling out a bunch of cash. He looked around the shelf and knew he couldn’t get anything in trade for KU football, and the only thing he had to trade was some KU broadcasts. Maybe he figured people would stream the blacked out basketball games online.
But if Zenger did it just to cut a corner, when he didn’t need to, well, then IMHO he made a bad choice. There are other ways to grow the minor sports. Go to the alumni of the minor sports and get them to make contributions.
Hard to say until more scoop on cui bono surfaces, I reckon.
