Let's talk Summer Korea World Games- B. Greene Surgery Impact
-
“That tells me the team was on a razors edge.”
I think ALL college teams live on a razor’s edge. They are kids and kids freak out. A senior-laden team might keep better composure, but we’ve even seen those teams choke.
I like how you mentioned that our guys were out of position. Couple that with timing and motion issues. After our brief love affair with the long ball, we went back to Self’s bread and butter, playing through the post. With just a little tweaking couldn’t that have run every bit as well as ISU’s offense on a good day? Seriously? We were pounding the ball into Perry around the FT line, and the entire world knows he is dangerous in that area so defenses collapsed… but where was the outlet 3? Once we established our game was working through the post we didn’t follow it up properly by springing guys for open 3s. Our guys either were miss-spaced or they weren’t in motion, creating their own scoring space through motion and timing. If anyone doesn’t know what I mean, please reference back to NDs offense last year. Those guys really knew how to run offense. Timely cuts. When a player exposed a weakness and attacked, the other guys weren’t just standing there watching, they knew that was the time for them to work their own scoring space because there would be a good chance they would receive an assist feed.
Our offense never ran like that… but it had every bit the potential to do so. We had solid scoring capabilities at everything but the 5.
-
Great stuff, man. Very enjoyable read. Thanks so much for sharing!
-
@ralster Thanks so much for sharing this. Next time, video camera in your headband, OK?
-
@ralster Ah man!! I would have liked to been there for that. Picking Coach’s brain, hearing him loosen up and speak like that. Way cool. KU is gonna have some T-bone steaks for dinner two times next season! Oh yah!!
-
Do you have any idea how frustrating must be for coaches when they practice all week for a team and at game time the players seem to have forgotten what they did in practice? I understand that the opposing team has a say in the matter but it happens to all teams not just KU. here is a GIF of Calipari physically stepping into the court and shoving his player into position…
-
@JayHawkFanToo & @dylans Yeah, but isn’t ‘getting your players to execute’ what you did in practice all week part of coaching? Even if it means physically pushing them into position?
And isn’t 15-16 losses for a team heavy with NBA draft picks a coaching fail? It sure is on this board if your name is Calipari. But then, he and coach K did bounce back from their down years and early exits with Final Four appearances. As I’ve already posted, I’d trade a down year here or there for another win or two in the tournament the next year.
-
@KUinLA I hope you don’t use the same logic w/teaching!
-
@Crimsonorblue22 lol–basketball coaches are hired on their ability to win, not teach.
-
@KUinLA same as teachers teach, they are also hired!
-
@Lulufulu - Thought you would be interested in this. New info. The injury was apparently not a progressive one, but a traumatic one. This from kusports.com:
Jeffrey explained the injury: “He had a torn labrum he did in early February that he didn’t tell anybody about. He couldn’t push off his right leg and jump off his right leg. It got worse. The inflammation was the pain he was feeling. It continued to swell and swell. “Genetically when you are 7-years-old you start to form that ball socket. The ball socket was a tiny bit bigger than they felt it should be, so they shaved it down a bit. He had no bone spurs. It went well. He is in recovery in a good amount of pain. Give it a day and the pain should subside.”
Jeff Greene said Brannen wanted to keep playing thus didn’t inform anybody about a possible hip problem this past season. “I noticed he wasn’t getting any lift on his shot. It was flatter than normal at times. It wasn’t the same repeating motion,” Jeff said. “After a few games I was saying to him, ‘Why is your shot different? It’s a different shot than the one that got us here.’ He was trying to keep his condition from everybody, me, the staff, the trainers. He was saying, ‘I just need to stretch out a little more.’ I knew he wasn’t getting lift on the shot. He didn’t want us to know he was injured other than, ‘I think I tweaked something.’’’ Greene’s dad noticed his son had trouble getting out of a chair at the team hotel during the Big 12 tournament, but Greene again said he was just sore from the previous game.
“He came home two weeks ago. He yelled getting out of a chair and had trouble walking. I said, ‘What in the heck is wrong?’ He said, ‘I hurt it. I got hit in a game, hit in practice, my hip has not been the same.’ I said, ‘This happened right before the (shooting) slump didn’t it?’ He said he hurt it but it wasn’t as painful but keeps getting worse,” Jeffrey said. So it was checked out and surgery was deemed the solution. The surgery was performed by Dr. J.W. Thomas Byrd at Nashville Sports Medicine and Orthopaedic Center. The Tennessee Titans team physician has authored several textbooks on hip arthroscopy.
-
@HighEliteMajor Very helpful and insightful. Thanks for posting.
-
“basketball coaches are hired on their ability to win, not teach.”
I’d like to believe that… but from what I see, winning is just a part of college coaching. Teaching is a big part of college coaching and was at the root of college basketball history. Most early coaches were already teaching at the university. I believe that is why there is a big difference in strategies applied by NBA coaches versus college coaches. If you have a volume scorer who is effective in the NBA the coach will run most of his offense through that one player. College it is all about team, team, team. They teach basketball philosophy, not about all-out winning.
-
College coaches are not only that but also teachers and mentors. For many kids, they are the first father figure and positive role model in their lives and I would trade a few wins if the result is kids graduating with a better chance of success in life, particularly as is the case for most kids, outside of basketball. What is it that made you so jaded?
-
Teachers are hired to teach, so if all kids don’t get a’s, they fail too?
-
As a parent of (former) teenagers I know all too well that they never do what you want them to do and seldom do what they need to do…
-
@JayHawkFanToo I guess I sailed under a lucky star. Mine certainly aren’t perfect, but they are responsible, respectful, and have managed to keep their noses clean.
I would venture our players want to do the right things and pretty much do just that. But sometimes a teen just makes a bad decision-because something sounds fun. When I think back to the stupid things I did in my 20’s I am surprised I’m still walking around.
-
@JayhawkRock78 said:
When I think back to the stupid things I did in my 20’s I am surprised I’m still walking around.
Lol. Is there anyone (over 30) here, that can’t say that?
-
@nuleafjhawk You are probably right. Perhaps we were a bunch of young Jayhawks going Mach 5 with hair on on fire who somehow survived it all.
-
I have two real good and grown kids, but in their teen years they did have a rebellious side to them…
-
@JayHawkFanToo Well it’s where you finish that matters. Sounds like ya’ll did good.
I hope I can say the same in 5 to 10 years-so far so good.
-
@JayhawkRock78 I always figure the Good Lord is keeping us around so we can enjoy another 4 or 5 National Championships.
And hopefully some other stuff that actually means something…
-
@nuleafjhawk Now that’s an encouraging thought. (I am trying to quote Gandolf-not sure I got it right though.)
-
@KUinLA I wish I had had a teacher as good as Bill Self is a coach. I never had a top 10 teacher. Apparently they were all terrible as a few kids even flunked out. Man talk about not winning.
A good coach and a good teacher are the same. You don’t turn Forrest Gump into Einstein with good or even perfect teaching. You don’t turn Landon Lucas into an all star with a good coach, but you can make him a servicable back up. You help each kid to reach their potiental as a great teacher. You help the team reach its potential as a coach even if that means reigning in a player. A students education doesn’t occur in one year. A team doesn’t reach it’s potiental in one season of playing in a system.
I’m not sure KU didn’t reach it’s one year potiental the last two seasons with the healthy and eligible players that were left at the end of the season. I feel like the long term potiental was far greater than the one year potiental. Next season the players that have been around will be better. Hopefully only limited minutes are to be given to freshman.
-
I’m sure Bill is a great guy and it sounds like a great experience to hang out with him in that loosened up atmosphere. And he is a great coach and I’m sure a great teacher. But you can’t ignore the elephant in the room named Tournament Upsets and that’s why I’m jaded.
And I never had a teacher who taught as well as Bill coaches, but I never had a teacher who made $5 million/year. Because they don’t pay teachers $5 mil/year. They pay coaches $5mil/year. To win and generate revenue for the school. And yeah, if a teacher inherited a group of National Merit Scholars and nobody got an A in his class, I’ll bet the administration would have a sit-down with that teacher.
I’m sure coaching candidates at Kansas say all the right things about teaching and graduating and father figure and I’m sure the AD listens and smiles and nods, but at the University of Kansas, they’re looking for someone that they believe can win. I doubt if they’ve hired anyone to ‘teach’ the game since Phog, lol.
But the bottom line is, I wouldn’t be such a sourpuss if we didn’t have all these tournament upsets.
-
@KUinLA I could say 99.9% sure, if you had nat. Merit scholars, they would have straight A’s!
-
I’m taking back my comments about BG’s defense. I’ve talked bad about how he moves. Hearing what his dad said, I think it would have been really impossible to maintain a defensive stance. How did trained team drs not notice this? I remember when he limped off one game. Get well soon BG and sorry!!!
-
Every team that makes to the tournament except one end the season with a loss. You think KU gets upset in the tournament? Ask the fans or most every other school and with very few exceptions they would all trade their programs for a KU-like program. You are so busy thinking about what you don’t have that fail to see what you do have. Be happy…you could be a MU fan.
-
@JayHawkFanToo nice!
-
@Crimsonorblue22 So if your National Merit Scholars didn’t get A’s, would you think maybe the teacher is suspect? And if your team with 4 or 5 future NBA draft picks get upset by teams with no NBA talent, would you think maybe the coach is suspect?
-
@JayHawkFanToo You totally miss my point.
-
@KUinLA they would! Seen that. And if all 9 or so 5 star players would be coached by Self, we’d win it all! No doubt! You won’t change my mind.
-
…and you miss mine; nothing new.
-
@KUinLA If all Bill had was 5 star recruits then yes he better be in the final four every year. You forget he doesn’t get to choose who comes to KU he has to woo 18 year old boys to come to KU. I personally made an excellent decision to attend KU as an 18 year old. Not all the kids Bill wants will make that decision.
For instance, do you think KU would’ve gone further in the dance with a center? We’ve all read about Bill chasing all the top center prospects for the last several years. KU being second choice for Okafor, and Tarc hurt has hurt. I know Bill wants a footer with skills, but one isn’t on the roster.
As to your point about Bill making $5 million per year, so is Billy Donavon and Florida didn’t even make the dance. Billy Donavon is an excellent coach too. What teacher generates $23 million per year at their job so they can be paid $5million per?
Teachers don’t get their due respect always, but if you aren’t generating revenue it’s difficult to come up with the money in the budget. Esp. with a 660 miliion budget shortfall in KS.
-
@dylans Wouldn’t you agree that Kansas, under coach Self, has had better talent than all other Big 12 contenders every season during his tenure, save two or three (maybe)?
Whose job is it to ensure we have the “center” on the roster?
Whose job is it to adjust Kansas’ attack when we are missing a piece or two that are preferred pieces?
-
@JayHawkFanToo & @Crimsonorblue22 & @dylans I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree then.
-
Wouldn’t you also agree that Coach Self has done a better job than any other coach in the League…with no exemptions…as shown by 11 Conference Titles in a row?
What you want and what you get is not always the same thing, regardless of how hard you work at it. I would say that he has used the available personnel as well as anyone…but I am sure you honestly believe you could have done a better job, and on this we just agree to disagree.
-
How many times were we picked to win conference? I would guess Texas should have been the best team last year according to talent.
-
Texas and Baylor have had plenty of talent over the years and could not do it. This last season, Texas, ISU and OU were all expected to be better than KU but in the end same story…KU wins Conference Title.
-
@JayHawkFanToo !!!
-
@KUinLA Who do you want as KU’s coach? Seriously I’m curious who you think would be the ideal canidate to replace Bill Self.
Coach K has been called the best coach ever this year. Hyperbole is all it is, but he’s undeniably great. The “best coach ever” lost to Mercer in the first round as a 2 seed.
-
@HighEliteMajor No. The absolute best talent hasn’t always been in Lawerence during that stretch. Durant, Aldridge, Beasley are a few players that come to mind. KU hasn’t been picked first in the pre-season in every year which is a pretty good guage of which team the press/coaches feel who is the most talented and Experienced.
Coaches poll (finish) Big 12 Champ(pre-season pick)2012-13 Kansas (Tie-1st) Kansas (1st) Kansas State (5th) 2011-12 Kansas (1st) Kansas (1st) Texas A&M (9th)
2010-11; Kansas State (Tie-3rd) Kansas (2nd)
2009-10 Kansas (1st) Kansas (1st)
2008-09 Oklahoma (2nd) Kansas (3rd)
2007-08 Kansas (Tie-1st) Texas (2nd) Kansas (1st)
2006-07 Kansas (1st) Kansas (1st)
2005-06 Texas (Tie-1st) Kansas (3rd)
Texas (1st)2004-05 Kansas (Tie-1st) Kansas (Tie-1st) Oklahoma State (3rd) Oklahoma (4th)
2003-04 Missouri (Tie-5th) Oklahoma State (5th)
2002-03 Kansas (1st) Kansas (1st)
2001-02 Kansas (1st) Kansas (1st)
2000-01 Kansas (Tie-2nd) Iowa State (4th)
1999-2000 Kansas (5th) Iowa State (6th) 1998-99 Oklahoma State (Tie-5th) Texas (5th)
1997-98 Kansas (1st) Kansas (1st)
1996-97 No Coaches Poll Kansas < Men’s Basketball
-
@dylans “Greatest Coach” with 1000 wins and 5 National Championships is hyperbole???
Oh, and btw, what did that hyperbolic “Greatest Coach” do a year after that Mercer upset? Just came back and won the National Championship, is all! Duh!!! What did Bill do the next year after his 2014 tournament upset? Uhhh, the exact same thing again.
-
@HighEliteMajor - you sir are bitter and delusional.
I enjoy your posts but the tirades against Coach Self seriously take away from your otherwise interesting analysis. Railing against a coach or manager usually involves deep rooted parental issues…
And there is NO WAY the KU team last year was a Final Four talent. Get real.
WSU had a better team than KU the last two years. Period.
Lighten up and enjoy the team and the game. No excuses? Hip surgery is a pretty major operation. Our coach and our guys are fine, competitive and have plenty of ‘want to win’.
RCJH!
-
@jayhawk-007 An excellent post. Bill Self is the Coach of the Kansas Jayhawks and he is doing the best he can. He misses on recruits just like every other coach. His team has injuries just like any other team. No one went undefeated this year. We have been a competitive team in years that we probably shouldn’t have. No NITs for this team.
-
Being a head coach at this level involves three things:
Recruiting - can you get the horses? can you mix and match the OAD, TAD with the three and four year scholarship athletes? Can you get that occasional transfer or Juco stud? Can you transition kids out of the program without a scandal? What kind of reputation do you have during in-house visits? Would you want your kid to be mentored by the coach? Is there a BB/College Life/Academic balance in a good environment? Does he have their backs? etc.
Coach Self’s grade: A-
Representing - does the coach represent the kids and the university well? Does he honestly evaluate his team and have a reasonable public-private dialogue with fans and the student-athletes? Is he good in his relations relations with press and alumni? Is he a good fundraiser? Does he add value to the university as an institution of higher learning (academics) and a first class program? Let’s not underestimate the very heavy lifting required by our BB coach in light of our FB weakness, etc.
Coach Self’s Grade: A+
Coaching - practice, conditioning, weights, schemes, using talent, getting the most from your players, consistent effort (especially on the D side of the ball), adjustments at half time, motivating players to practice and play hard, creating an opportunity for your best guys to make a play at crunch time (put them in position to make winning plays), preparation and scouting, very intense calm and confident to inspire our young men to perform at the highest level of their abilities, etc.
Coach Self’s Grade: B+
I used to think HCBS was at the same level as the great ones (straight A’)s, but i think he has gone stall on the O side of the ball, and is evolving too slowly to the evolution of the game. I agree with HEM and others who believe we should “free the three” a little more and let the guards and wings dribble-drive instead of feed the post systematically and “run his stuff” rather than take an open three early in the shot clock. Still too much back to the basket, old school philosophy in the way our head coach AND assistant coaches play offense.
We should run more and press more. We should play more guys more minutes and keep legs fresher. We should adjust a little more our schemes to the talent we have, year in and year out. We should play a little more zone (occasionally), mix up our O and D sets within a simplified overall philosophy.
To get great guards, we need to let them create more and not just be post feeders. Our team play is outstanding but sometimes we overpass. We need to penetrate more on O and less move the ball side to side around the perimeter. I really like our D and our E (effort).
Coach Self should certainly learn to be a little less stubborn and pig-headed … but he is one of the very best and I believe he is adjusting and will continue to evolve, following in the footsteps of Coach K. We are in excellent hands and we would want no one other than our dear head coach Bill Self at the helm. He is an upgrade over Roy and one of the top five as per the criteria above in the nation. Rock ChalKk
RCJH!
-
@jayhawk-007 I do think that you, and a few others, fail to recognize that with most that offer criticisms of Self, we are granting the positives – meaning, we understand that Self is a great coach. We get that. 90% is great. We just focus on the critique of the other 10%. I appreciate that you suggest that I have “otherwise interesting analysis.” But part of that is critical thinking is challenging what I see from coach Self, and that leads to the analysis – If I don’t do that, I’m not thinking.
If you’ve read my posts, you know that I’m a big fan of the high/low. I think the post feed is the best way to score the basketball. I think playing inside out is the most effective offensive approach. Now, isn’t that pretty much an adoption of Self’s philosophy right there on offense? My disconnect with Self is related to 10%.
This season, we had a different team. A different skill set. An inability to score at the rim. Looking at the talent that you have, and adjusting your attack to maximize that talent. Ironically, this season, we had three final four teams that embraced three point shooting, all in a year when Self said we had the best perimeter shooting team he’s had at Kansas. All in a year where this team proved regularly that it struggled to score at the rim. Yet Self took a much different path. Thus the critical analysis.
I saw your own review Self above. You just said “Coach Self should certainly learn to be a little less stubborn and pig-headed.” Isn’t that what most of the discussion this past season has centered on? Really, haven’t you captured my entire criticism of Self in a nutshell? Be flexible, adjust, and adapt.
I’m interested in your proclamation – you said that there was “NO WAY” that this past KU team had “Final Four talent”. I’m completely stumped.
Here’s our roster: 1) Perry Ellis, ranked 24, 2) Cliff Alexander, ranked 2 3) Kelly Oubre, ranked 10, 4) Brannen Greene, ranked 29, 5) Frank Mason, ranked 76, 6) Devonte Graham, ranked 36, 7) Svi Mykhailuik (foreign so not ranked, but noted as a lottery talent), 8 ) Wayne Selden, ranked 12, 9) Hunter Mickelson ranked 55/100 – and two unranked guys, Traylor and Lucas.
I’m not understanding how one can say we don’t have enough talent. Would it be incorrect to state that anyone who looked at that roster of talent, and felt that it was not of Final Four caliber, might themselves be delusional? I don’t know.
I will say that my unequivocal opinion is that if … “if” … this team’s offensive weapons were maximized, we certainly had a chance to reach the final four. But there is no doubt that we had the talent on the roster.
-
@KUinLA Following this guy, yes it is hyperbole
Support us without the ads? Go Ad-Free.
John Wooden
Career Record (major schools): 29 Years, 664-162, .804 W-L% Schools: Indiana State (44-15) and UCLA (620-147)
Conference Champion: 16 Times
NCAA Tournament: 16 Years (47-10), 12 Final Fours, 10 Championships NCAA Champion: 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1975
Mike Krzyzewski
Career Record (major schools): 40 Years, 1018-310, .767 W-L% Schools: Army (73-59) and Duke (945-251)
Conference Champion: 12 Times (Reg. Seas.), 13 Times (Tourn.)
NCAA Tournament: 31 Years (88-26), 12 Final Fours, 5 Championships NCAA Champion: 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010 and 2015
No doubt he’s great, but better than Wooden? It’s not like K hasn’t had talent too.
And I’ll ask again, who do you want to replace Bill Self with?
-
“I’m taking back my comments about BG’s defense. I’ve talked bad about how he moves. Hearing what his dad said, I think it would have been really impossible to maintain a defensive stance. How did trained team drs not notice this? I remember when he limped off one game. Get well soon BG and sorry!!!”
I guess I missed some comments from BGs dad. I’ve always commented that BG had a poor stance and he needed to lower his center of gravity. Might he been suffering the entire time he’s been a Jayhawk?
It is possible that if they relieve all his pain he might become a much improved player in the near future. Hope so! Go BG!
-
@HighEliteMajor How does Alexander fit into your Final Four talent analysis? Just curious, because he wasn’t playing at the end of the season. He may have been a difference maker, but we will never know.
-
@KansasComet I make it all pretty simple. Self did a good job getting Cliff to KU. Self did a bad job getting Cliff ready to play in his system. And Cliff did a bad job getting ready to play in Self’s system. However, when Cliff played, the statistics show that he was productive.
With or without Cliff, I believed our chances were low to get to the Final Four playing our offensive system, which didn’t fit our talent. But 21-4 showed we were in the game. With tweaks offensively, and “freeing the three”, we were at least as good as Notre Dame (and probably better).
The discussion was on “talent” – there is not doubt we had the talent.
