3. Peak offseason content pt 1 - ranking Bill Self PGs

Peak offseason content pt 1 - ranking Bill Self PGs

  • J

    Hello! I am starting a “series” that is intended for nothing other than to generate lively discussion and friendly debate and to ebb the boredom of the offseason (especially now that we are on a two week haitus for our football team as well). I will rank all starting Bill Self PGs, then all starting Bill Self CGs/SGs, then SFs/wings, then PFs/stretch4s, then Cs, then 6th men. I will probably have some stupid takes and stupid oversights, so feel free to point them out to me. The more abusive the language the better! Here goes.

    1. Frank Mason

    2. Devon Dotson. I decided to rank him ahead of the other contenders for the no. 2 spot (Sherron, Devonte, Tyshawn) because Devon is a much better defender than Sherron and Devonte (and probably a better defender than Tyshawn too) and wasn’t as turnover-plagued as Tyshawn.

    3. Sherron Collins. He is ahead of Tyshawn because he is less turnover prone.

    4. Tyshawn Taylor

    5. Devonte Graham. Behind Sherron and Tyshawn for a few reasons: The Oregon game, Sherron’s title, and Devonte taking a back-seat to Malik Newman during his senior year FF run. (not saying it was a bad thing to take a seat to the hot hand, just that Malik deserves more credit for that FF run than Devonte does).

    6. DaJuan Harris. Ahead of Aaron Miles because they had similar stats and play styles but DaJuan helped us win a title.

    7. Aaron Miles

    8. Russell Robinson

    9. Marcus Garrett. Not a true PG but he filled in admirably his senior season. He will also be included in the SG/CG rankings.

    10. Naadir Tharpe

    11. Elijah Johnson (I have him as below Naadir Tharpe because I believe that while Elijah was a better overall player, Naadir was a better PG. Elijah will also make an appearance in the SG/CG rankings.)

    Note: You may have noticed that neither Remy Martin nor Mario Chalmers was included. Remy will be in the 6th man rankings and Mario will be in the SG/CG rankings.

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  • wissox

    IDK, March/April results matter and so I tend to give some major props to guys like Russell Robinson and DaJuan and Sherron. TT got us within 8 points of a title too.

    If you take away March results, I just have the feeling that Aaron Miles was one of the 2 or 3 best PG’s that I’ve seen at KU. He was spectacularly good I always thought. I just realized that Aaron played in 2 FF’s and was a few missed KU FT’s away from winning it all.Robinsons D moves him up a bit too and while I know Frank was immensely popular and POY and all that, his score first mentality cost the team points particularly in his first couple of seasons. He never had a high APG.

    Good discussion starter will look forward to the rest.

    1 J M 2 Replies
  • J

    @wissox This was difficult for me to rank because of how many great point guards we have had, many of whom I was very reticent to position low on the list. Take Russell Robinson for example. A superb floor general, lock-down defender, and national champion, who probably could have been more of a scorer if he weren’t on a team with so many elite options. Having him as low as number 7 feels like a crime, but I also don’t want to move down anyone I have ahead of him.

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  • M

    @wissox I get what you are saying about tournament success and agree it matters, but Frank’s senior year was good enough that the tournament results don’t move the needle enough for me to personally rank anyone above him. He also made 2x elite 8s so it wasn’t a complete dud there for him.

    Frank was also around 5 assists per game his last year too which higher than all but probably Miles/Graham/DaJaun so he was at least average there, he was just so good at scoring that passing was a relative weakness in his game.

    2 J 1 Reply
  • J

    @MR11 Also Frank played well in our elite 8 loss his senior year. Everyone around him just collapsed. So I really don’t penalize him for not making a FF.

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  • D

    No Collins, no championship in ‘08. Makes him number one from this list for me. Mason was more productive, but results matter.

    3 kjayhawks 1 Reply
  • kjayhawks

    @dylans same can be said for Remy Martin and Juan in 22. The back up was likely better in both scenarios but Russ had experience and Juan had started all so they kept the line up the same. I’d bet Collins and Martin played just as much if not more in the title game and more in most tournament games.

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  • kjayhawks

    One thing not a lot of folks are talking about is the talent around the PG. TT did a lot the second half of his senior year with one draft pick. The teams that won the titles had a minimum of 3 draft picks on them. Several of the guys listed only played with one draft pick so it makes it tough to gauge.

    1. Frank Mason- was the trick of all trades as a PG imo

    2. Aaron Miles- great passer, all time assists leader and under rated as a defender being 3 all time in steals.

    3. Sherron Collins- a lot like Mason but not as good defensively. Jack of all trades

    4. Tyshawn Taylor- Turnover prone but was great the second half of his senior season.

    5. Devon Dotson- to me he was Frank Mason 2.0, he just wasn’t long enough to be hirer on this list.

    6. Russel Robinson- Great defender but average IMO on the rest.

    7. Devonte Graham- really was 2 guard that became a PG due to necessity. One of my favorite SGs in KU history.

    8. Elijah Johnson- same story as Dtae not really a PG but had to play there for a year. 10 second call vs Michigan will haunt me for the rest of my life.

    9. Marcus Garrett- great defender but also not really a PG and forced to play there for a season. He did solid looking at the talent he didn’t have around him.

    10. Dejuan Harris- never was a fan of his game and big circle dribbles that ended with him in the air and turning it over under the basket. Was pretty much all we had much of his time here outside of Remy. Him being behind guys like Miles on the both the all time assists and steals but playing in numerous more games says something to me.

    11. Naadir Tharpe- Didn’t like his game and wasn’t great at anything IMO besides having an Ego the size of Tim Duncan. But he likely makes a FF with a healthy Joel Embiid.

    0 J 1 Reply
  • J

    @kjayhawks Florida was in our region when we had Embiid. Even if he is healthy that Florida team was really really good, probably a little too much for us.

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