ITS THE END OF THE WORLD
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@drgnslayr I think we’re going to have a lot of “dips” until Oubre, Traylor and Selden figure out how to play basketball. And they’re not alone, just the three worst offenders in my book right at this moment.
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@Crimsonorblue22 On CF, he has 2 1/2 seasons left. Since he enrolled and attended school the first semester, that counts, whether he played, or not. The rule is each player has 5 seasons to play 4, unless there is a medical redshirt. He’ll be eligible after the conclusion of the first semester in the 2015-16 season.
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@jaybate-1.0 HA!
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For me the sky isn’t falling because this is not a loss in the NCAA tournament. If we beat Oklahoma St. yesterday and then go on to lose in the 2nd round to a team like Stanford I tend to forget about a great road win in Stillwater. If we lose yesterday (like we did) and go on to a Final 4 I could care less about this game and I will probably forget it even happened.
I certainly enjoy the ride and I watch every minute of every game with pure enjoyment win or lose, but for me and most of the posters on this site it is all about how we perform in March. If we lose 5 more games in the regular season and lose our first round game of the Big 12 tourney and get a 7 seed and then somehow turn it on in the NCAA I honestly don’t care. It is all about the year end. I’m obviously thinking of UK and UCONN when I say this but it is possible. Improbable but possible.
Speaking of March as HEM and other posters often site it is much easier to get to the Final 4 with a 1 seed. A loss like this certainly hurts our chances of getting a 1. UK, Gonzaga, Duke, Virgina, Wisconsin, Zona (even though they lost), Nova…these teams are probably all ahead of us if we don’t come close to winning out. Maybe only 1 more loss on the road. At WVU or at OU would be the toughest games left. If we win one of those and win out at home we still have a shot. RCJH.
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To me, it’s not as much as the number of threes we took, or didn’t take…it’s a matter of handling the ball. We are not a good team when we turn over the ball. I don’t know what is going on with Devonte, but his whole demeanor has changed, along with his play. I think Frank is gassed…exhausted, and was making mistakes we haven’t seen all year. I think Jamari should not be allowed to touch the ball outside of 10 feet in the paint. And Wayne…love the 3 stroke, where’s your head at handling the ball? We lost because we gave them a tremendous number of extra opportunities, many of them layups, or easy shots. We got out toughed by an inferior team. Not the end of the world, but I don’t feel nearly as good about our ability to handle pressure. We looked like that lost team in the NCAAs last year in the 2nd half.
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**@jaybate-1.0 Lost by 5.
18 TOs.
That is 18 times we didn’t even get a chance to shoot!**
You snuck in there, and I missed your more eloquent post than mine about turnovers. Great minds think alike!!!
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@icthawkfan316 Did you see the quote from Greene earlier this week?
"Greene said Self allows him to fire away ‘as long as it’s in the flow of the offense. His main thing is get the easiest shots. Sometimes me shooting a long three is our best chance at that point. Wherever the shot clock may be, certain parts of the game, certain times of the game.’ "
Sounds like a red light/yellow light thing to me.
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@HighEliteMajor I remember a couple of instances where Greene hesitated on shots he could have taken, as you pointed out. Were those after he got the 3 pt attempt blocked? Could that have been part of his hesitation?
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That yesterday wasn’t a very good day is abundantly clear. Giving the ball away about 4 times to start the second half gave OSU confidence that they did not have until that point. We were listless and did not play very well. Self wasn’t happy about the first half except for the made shots he thought we played poorly.
Now let us imagine how WVU fans feel today about having their lunch totally eaten AT HOME by Baylor. Talk about listless. Who would have thought that Staten and the rest could play that poorly.
And poor UofA. To get bounced by a middling team like ASU must be particularly galling.
Well at least UK kicked the bejesus out of Flordia. NOT! With the exception of Duke and Virginia yesterday was pretty unforgettable for the top teams.
It is gloomy and rainy here in the bay area (god do we need it). I imagine that the weather is similar on most boards for the top schools around the country. Even UNC can’t celebrate their win against that powerhouse BC wilh the news about Dean Smith.
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@KUinLA What @icthawkfan316 is referring to is, and if you visit your profile it is quite evident, whenever you post it is usually negative posts about HCBS. And as he points out, some of us question game plans, actions and so on of HCBS, but don’t dwell on it. Coaches coach and then it’s up to the players to implement. Someone else commented and I’ve said the same thing, if I was a coach I’d been tempted to yank the starting five and send them to the bus after the first 5 minutes of the second half. Anyway, try making some positive comments instead of just showing up once or twice a month to bash HCBS.
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@jaybate-1.0 How many of those TO’s were the result of Greene, Selden and I think Ellis trying to drive the basket and just losing control of the ball? I’m getting to the point where I cover my eyes whenever one of our guys drive up the middle. And then at the other end I watch guys drive unmolested.
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@icthawkfan316 Some people just don’t get it when their tone of voice sounds denigrating or demanding. To me it’s often how something is stated as much as what’s being conveyed that suggests a message. Also a demanding tone in a post tends to lean towards an indication of impatience that can seem abrasive, & when this theme repeats itself over & over, may be an indication of something beyond the surface or what appears obvious. JMO
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@HighEliteMajor I didn’t see that quote, but it is telling. I’d agree, at least a yellow light.
I’d be interested to see him expand on that a bit, because Self has to know an 11 point lead on the road is not safe with a whole half left to play. In that respect, I still can’t see them being instructed at halftime “no threes” (or again, whatever equivalent you want to insert). Could be Brannen just meant don’t jack it up if he finds himself alone on a 1-on-3 break. Or with a 5 point lead and a minute left in the game to not hoist one up with 25 still left on the shot clock. Or just don’t abandon the offense, try and beat your man off the dribble and end up shooting while double-teamed. I’m in favor of those type of restrictions.
So I’d be interested in what the red/yellow light might specifically entail.
The more interesting part to me is the “in the flow of the offense” comment. Brannen was out there a great deal in the second half. If not for his trey gun, then for what? Devonte would have been a better option against their pressure. I think Self still wanted Brannen to take open 3s. But as we’ve discussed, it’s still the hi-lo Self offense, and we’re not seeing the actions ran designed specifically to free up the shooters. And without adjustments and wrinkles to the offense it is easier for the defense to defend us, which I believe we did see yesterday from OSU. I thought they made guarding Greene and the shooters a priority and that it was difficult for us to get the same looks we got in the first half.
So I’m agreeing with you on that - that Self is not working to maximize the team’s strength as much as he should. I just still have my doubts that he is actively trying to stymie that strength by telling the team to quit shooting.
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@icthawkfan316 In others words, shoot the 3 when you’re open but we’re not gonna do anything special to get you open?
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@ParisHawk That seems to be the prevailing opinion. Like HEM has stated, Self has set plays that we may see out of a timeout or at end of game situations, but the overall offense doesn’t seem to include a whole lot of actions to free up shooters.
I have never coached basketball in my life, so I’m far from being an expert (or even a novice). I like to think I have a decent understanding of the game, but I won’t pretend to know how difficult it would be to install such motions into our hi-lo offense, how the players would pick such things up, etc. HEM seems to think it wouldn’t be difficult. He may be right. I don’t know if we’ll see it or not though…
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@brooksmd Gotta face facts ol’ bud, some of us are small minded people desperately trying to express ourselves. If I swear much & the wife hears, (ouch) that’s my pat answer. She says’ Saying that is Soooooooooo stupid!"
I think she’s finally catching on,LOL !!
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@icthawkfan316 said:
the overall offense doesn’t seem to include a whole lot of actions to free up shooters.
Hmm, where have I heard that before? No wait, I shouldn’t post unless I have something good to say
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@KUinLA Look, if you’re that clueless, it’s not worth responding to you. This will be it. You’ll be crushed I’m sure, but I’m confident you’ll get over it. Whether you ever get over yourself…
One more time, holding out hope that maybe you are a real fan and not the troll everyone thinks you: as I have said, criticism is justified. It’s OK to be down on the team, the coach, etc. But have you EVER came on this site and had one good thing to say? Or even one challenging thing to say that wasn’t rooted in your hatred of Self? You never answered before, so I’m asking again.
We get it. You hate Self. But are you that little of a KU fan that you can only come on here after a loss to bash Self?
Honestly, what is the point of doing what you do? You’re not rallying anyone to your way of thinking. No one is embracing you in the Jayhawk community (which is what I love about this place - the free flow of ideas between people sharing a common passion). You just keep coming out after every loss with the same tired drivel, and most tune you out.
It would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you weren’t the same broken record all these years. But if you only have one, unchanging, rigid, dogmatic opinion…why would anyone respect what you have to say, even if they might agree with you?
You ask “hmm, where have I heard that before?” I get the sense that perhaps you are implying that you said that. I wouldn’t know, because I read the first line or two of your posts and then dismiss you. You’ve never had anything new to say, why would you start now? I get the feeling that most of the site feels the same way.
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@KUinLA I think the question that you haven’t answered is where were you after KU blew out Texas, ISU, or any good game this season? If there is a legitimate reason, then sleep well with a clean conscious.
What I believe rubs @icthawkfan316 and others the wrong way is you treat this site like dog who gets beat after a bad day at work. I will assume the best and think that you actually enjoy this site and the Jayhawks and only feel the need to post when you can’t take it anymore. But maybe try and venting all your thoughts and not just the negative one. In the end, you are a KU brother (or sister) and I hope you are enjoying the ride as much as everyone else. Have a good day!
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I think our offense can use quite a bit of tweaking to open up more 3s. We need to run more than a Perry pick-n-pop, Perry at the top of the key, others running high ball screens etc. Most everything we are running now generates on the perimeter. Those kinds of plays usually don’t open up someone for a wide open shot. The shots remain contested. Even Greene has his limitations.
We should be running stuff where Greene has to cut through the pack and go from one side to the other side or out top and in an open area. Or get Frank to drive more and feed out.
I think our best shot is to run Frank, Devonte and either Brannen or Wayne. Frank and Devonte should be driving and feeding either Brannen or Wayne. With two guys very capable of driving like that it really shouldn’t be tough to free one perimeter shooter. Part of it is just clearing out a spot so team defense doesn’t get to the shooter too quickly.
We still don’t really make use of corner shooting. Brannen should be a marksman from the corners. This is the toughest spot on the floor to cover.
We were just having Brannen and another guard playing ball screen out on the perimeter in this game, and that isn’t the way to open up the long ball. That is a way to open up a driving lane by preventing drive hedges to be set.
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Guys… it doesn’t do us any good to vent our frustrations on each other.
Vent out anything you like but you will be taken more serious if you provide reasoning for your vent and possible solutions.
We should all bend and be open minded.
BTW: I do my best when someone totally picks apart my posts. Many times I need to be straightened out and I never seem to reach that point by myself. That is actually the most beneficial thing for me in participating here. All the knowledgeable posters help keep me straight. If I didn’t have that I would think of myself as a true know-it-all jerk. So now I’m just a jerk!
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@JhawkAlum Intelligent exchanges with a B & B troll, is like dueling with an unarmed man. Is Pretty clear this guy is not a legitimate fan, but the opposite. When he crosses the line, & likely will, he’ll be dumped like a few others have been. But honestly some of the funniest posts I recall from the old site were when some Butthead would take on jaybate head on. He’d chew on them as long as they wanted,; some seem to be simply absolute gluttons for punishment.
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@globaljaybird I think @drgnslayr is right. We’ve kicked this can far enough down the road and the light hasn’t come on yet so time to move on and enjoy the informative and sometimes amusing (@jaybate-1.0 are you listening?) banter we’ve become accustomed to. Besides, I fear we may wake-up @approxinfinity and then we’ll have to deal with his wrath. Cheers all, have a great week and if not before I look forward to the TTU game chat and the rebound butt whooping they will receive.
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One aspect of our game that I hope eventually gets addressed is how to run offense when the defense is tight and up in our face on the perimeter. It’s been apparent in many games through out the season that when teams defend us tight on the outside, our offensive production is low, and our turnover rate is high. This happened again in the second half. Beyond the arc, OSU’s defense was on us like cake on a fat kid…All over us. The result was an extremely low field goal %, and turnovers which gave them more runs, more momentum (especially playing at home), and utlimately the W. Let’s learn how attack the tight perimeter D, because West Virginia’s right around the corner, and we’ll be facing that pressure from tip off to the final buzzer!
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This is a tough situation.
To be honest, I never played on a team that could not score back to basket on the blocks AND from outside. And I’ve never seen one that could only score from outside before. I’ve seen teams that struggled with one or the other, but I’ve never seen one that just gets shut off inside.
As the season has continued, I am beginning to think that what happened with Kentucky was not so much about Kentucky, as it was with us.
UK had four footers. Check.
UK had played 7 games before we opened with them. Check.
But we have trouble scoring on the blocks against second division teams sometimes.
Self has tried more different ways to score inside than I have ever seen a coach try.
He is on the right track.
But the OSU game exposed the very deficiencies of driving abilities that we thought were getting cleared up.
I think part of this has to do with limitations in our players, but also has to do with how young our players are.
I have said this before.
Each time we come up against a smart coach, and we are playing young players, he is going to find some holes in their games and scheme to stop them. In the pre OAD era, it could take players 2-4 years to work all the holes out of their games. In the OAD era, we are trying to expose the holes and plug them much more rapidly. So: as the season goes on, and we are developing the ability to play the way Self has blue printed us to play, there just ARE going to be MORE times in a season, when smart opposing coaches find chinks in our young players’ armors, than say an experienced ring team like 08.
What I am trying to say here is that Self’s plan for this team still seems a winning plan, despite our complaining about wanting him to do more of this or that.
We lost by 5 on a night when Ford figured out how to really expose and exploit our weaknesses driving.
Our guys will learn from this and get better. Maybe not great, but better.
And so the next time they play a team that tries to exploit those chinks in our armors, instead of losing by 5, we’ll win by 5, or 10.
Its a process as they say.
Rock Chalk!!
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I looked at @KUinLA’s profile and his posts and I’m not sure why everyone’s piling on. He’s one of us it appears, barely posts anything anyways. Gee, he offered an opinion. Doesn’t like the way our 3’s are being set up. Fine. I don’t care if you agree or not, but he’s entitled to express what he sees.
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Despite the tough loss after being up double figures in the first half, I am really impressed with the talent on this team. Each player has certain strengths that I feel out weigh their weaknesses. I think it’s funny how people love to wallow in doom & gloom everytime we lose. I get it. It sucks. I say "Take it easy man, they can’t all be winners can they? There is so much to be thankful for with this team. Even though are strong points aren’t at the positions that they usually are, we still are extremely talented. Remember the days when every single Jayhawk fan was begging for capable guards? Frank Mason is an absolute beast at the point who can score from any where. Not only that, he has great handles and can seemingly drive at will, and he’s also very sound defensively. Selden’s more recently shown us he’s got a great shot from ouside, and he can defend well. Oubre is Uber athletic, has length, spark, with great hands defensively, and has the potential to be a consistent all around threat on the offensive side. Perry is a mature, intelligent veteran with an array of offensive moves, his dribble drive and shot are gradually getting more consistent, and he’s got sound D. Jamari has an incredible frame, spurts of phenominal hustle, despite the haters he can produce effectively down low on both ends. And that’s just the current starting 5! Off the bench, Devonte’s got the basketball IQ of a 4 year player, with great handles who’s always looking for the best shot, and above average on D. Greene is absolutely soaking wet from pretty much anywhere outside the paint, which can give the team momentum time and time again in tight situations, and is slowly improving his defense. And Cliff is an absolute monster with Thomas Robinson potential. The point is, even though we’ve had a couple of losses…We’ve had a couple of losses! It’s not like we go undefeated year in and year out, so L’s are going to happen. I don’t know about you, but I love watching this team. The key is figuring out how to utilize everyone’s talent, and have every piece work together consistently as one. There have been games where they have achived it, and might I add against extremely tough teams. Like Jaybate said a couple posts ago, “Its a process.” And I don’t know about you, but with Self as the leader, I like the odds of him coaching these bright kids full of potential to be able to reach a state of pure TEAMWORK! So to all the doom and gloomers, “Don’t hate, appreciate.” “Keep Calm, and Hawk on!”
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@icthawkfan316 Yes, you dismiss me–but you still can’t resist replying to my posts. You really should get over me. Just as you’re tired of me, I’m tired of you lambasting me every time I post something negative about your beloved coach. Especially when we often make the same points in our posts–that we don’t handle the press well, that we don’t run a 3pt offense, that the offense in general needs some tweaking. I wish you’d just get over your seemingly personal animosity towards me. Is it my hair in my avatar? Are you bald?
And yes, I do take a little gratification from seeing how many posters openly question Bill’s coaching on this site. Especially when that invariably got me pilloried on the previous site. But now, it’s pretty much acceptable and a normal topic of discussion here. I guess I was just ahead of the curve on that.
And yeah, I do pipe up after a loss. I guess that’s where my philosophy differs from Bill’s and the originator of this thread’s. I don’t wanna throw the tape in the trash. I believe you can actually learn something from a loss. Remember that thread from the previous site?
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I’ve been told that I should try to be more positive in my posts
OK–Everything is AWESOME!!!
And don’t forget-- ALWAYS root for the local sports team!
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@KUinLA said:
ALWAYS root for the local sports team!
The Lakers?
My local sports team is not allowed to touch the ball with their hands: what can I do?
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@joeloveshawks Im pretty sure this has been mentioned in the past by a few on here. We are so lucky to be in the KU nation. There are only 3 other programs that enjoy the success that we do here at KU. And, none of those hold a candle to KU IMO. Even Duke and Coach K with his 1k wins. Which is amazing btw.
We mourn through a tough loss when KU gets beat and go through that process together. We cheer and get amped when KU does win, and it does do that quite frequently.
I would never dream of giving a part of my spirit and soul to any other team like I do with KU.
On the topic, I was definitely upset when KU lost. I was asking myself, how can a team so good play like such absolute crap? How is it possible? KU should win ALL the time! Especially against inferior coaches and opponents. I mean, really. But, we all come to accept that KU isnt perfect and is not going to win all the time. We love our Jayhawks regardless of the losses and because of them.
#RCJHKUALLDAY
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@KUinLA Perspective allows one to see the entire picture better. Self and his general dislike for the 3 pointer has had to be dragged to the party. He is stubborn as a mule, but that stubbornness demands perfection from his team, and allows his teams to win 10 straight in conference, win a title, lose a title, and take KU to a level we have never been at since I have been following them ( 1972). Roy had his times - he had his moments, but we always came up short. Bill won. Would you prefer Bill simply change every aspect of his whole philosophy without a fight? I mean, Bill has made videos explaining the hi-lo…20 threes in a game nearly borders on sacrilege, I’m sure. He’s coming around- we’re still top 10. We’re still in first in conference. It is not the end of the world.
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Just wanna say that although i love coach Self. And wouldnt want anyone else to head this program. I cant understand the idea that some have. That he is infoulable beyond criticism. Not attacking anyone here. But im sorry. Hes a man. As imperfect as any other. He is foulable. And therfore can be questioned. I actually found myself questioning his urgency in the second half of this loss. Dont know that I meant it. But during the game I remember saying out loud. “I just dont think Coach Self cares about winning this game right now”. Probably just a fit of rage honestly. But i did read on the other site that Self admitted even the coaches did as crappy a job as the players on saturday. I like that. Even if he doesnt believe it. Hes humble enough to say it to us. A fanbase with more passion for our beloved Jayhawks/program than can be matched In my opinion. I am as guilty as anyone and moreso than some. We must sometimes guard against our own passion becoming a detourant. We will be mad/sad when we lose. We will be on cloud 9 when we win. All this is to be expected. This is not 10 year olds playing rec ball. For fun. Its bigtime hoops. And the most tradition rich program in history. Cant expect those with a massive investment of their heart and soul to not be passionate about it. For it may very well be that passion which is what will sustain longterm success. I feel we must all always strive for more from everyone involved with this program. Including ourselves as fans.
So there’s my opinion. Together with a token it might get ya on a subway.
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Is there a possibility that HCBS is playing the Bracket to avoid the UK’s region. After UK and Temple losses, I think it is hard to argue our case for 1 seed. If we are going to be 2 seed, which region will give us the best chance to advance.
I think this could be early; but, isn’t HBCS plays the RPI every year and plans his schedule very early. No one knows his Team better than him. Maybe HCBS knows his Team will need some help in clever bracketing.
And, to why HCBS wants to have a deep run this year with a young team? I think HCBS may just want the legitimacy (with a FF) when he brings his troop to South Korea this summer. Just maybe. RCJH!
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@KUSTEVE Well I’ll agree with what you say, but for me, it’s not about winning the conference. That means nothing to me if you get bounced in the tournament by a lesser team. Roy had his tourney upsets, but he still made it to the Final Four 4 times. And his upsets were not nearly as painful (to me anyway) as Bill’s have been. I’m glad to see Bill is coming around, (slowly but surely) but you gotta recognize, the game has changed. You can make all the videos you want explaining the hi-lo c0ncept, but if you keep getting bounced from the tourney by an 8, 9 or 10 seed (or worse) what’s the point? The game has moved on.
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I believe you will see varying opinions on the value of winning the Conference title. Many of us believe that winning the conference represent continuous excellence and it also prepares you and set you up for a better seed in the tournament and as such it is very important and an achievement that rewards you for the 18 game conference schedule. Others believe that only a deep run in the NCAA tournament has value and that he conference title has little or no value.
I personally think that a deep run in the NCAA tournament involves talent of course, but also a good dose of luck and favorable match ups. Rick Pitino said that the tournament is designed so any team has a change to win it, and that if it would go a 2 of 3 series, the top teams would win every time. Remember KU’s improbable run in '88? KU had a lot of luck winning that Championship but there were several other years when it really should have won it and yet it did not. Was Uconn the best teams last year? absolutely not; it was barely ranked in the top 25 and yet it won with one lucky run. How about Kentucky last year? it made to the finals by beating teams by 7 (KSU and largest margin), 2, 5, 3, and 1 point, a couple of those buzzer beaters. Just my opinion.
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@KUinLA I agree that as KU fans, sometimes we get a little caught up (more than most fan bases) on winning the league. Other than our unprecedented dominance as of late, league success isn’t recognized on a national level. We get bragging rights for another year against our conference, and a better tourney seeding. But that is about it.
But I am buying what @JayHawkFanToo is selling. It shows that we have been relevant year in and year out. And that we show consistent excellence. When you win the league, you are always a threat for the Final 4 and we have seen that over the past decade. The early exits is another monster that would have to be discussed on another board, but you catch my drift.
