2nd round of the GOAT tournament Part 2
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Thanks for playing along, here’s the other half.
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Early Withey lead over LaFrentz, a big surprise to me.
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@wissox probably a bit of recency bias. It’s easy to forget how good LaFrentz was for 4 years.
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@wissox What?! That makes no sense.
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@ajvan I don’t remember LaFrentz. that was before I dated my wife.i do remember Jeff “Block Party, Stink Face” Withey.
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I remember LaFrentz well. I might have slandered him a bit when arguing about Mook going into the rafters.
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@BShark does anyone have a link to a good raef highlight video at Kansas? My wife swears he was a badass with mad hops before injuries slowed him down.
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@approxinfinity said in 2nd round of the GOAT tournament Part 2:
@BShark does anyone have a link to a good raef highlight video at Kansas? My wife swears he was a badass with mad hops before injuries slowed him down.
Unfortunately footage from that far back isn’t as readily available. He was great though. I’m still salty about the Arizona loss. It’s up there on the all time list for me with Maryland.
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First-team all-conference (96,97,98)
B12 POY (97,98)
Consensus 1st-Team All-American (97,98)
#3 pick in the 1998 NBA draft.
Averaged 18.5 points and 9.3 rebounds in 28.9 minutes as a junior on one of the best KU teams ever (96-97, 34-2 team). Averaged 19.8 points and 11.4 rebounds in 30.2 minutes as a senior.
Kansas has had some disappointing early exits in the tournament, but the S16 loss to Arizona in 1997 is (by far) the most disappointing to me.
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KU was killing it down low for a period in there - Pollard, LaFrentz, Collison. All very nice.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich That was a FF caliber match-up. Sooooo much NBA talent on both squads. NBA players coming off the bench for Arizona. Not sure how they had 9 losses… Certainly a different time in college hoops.
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@BShark My memory is Arizona was pretty unknown at the time. They were young. .9 years experience. They took me/us totally by surprise when they beat us. The only redemption in it for us is losing to the champion.
@approxinfinity Surprised you don’t remember much about him. As @KirkIsMyHinrich points out he was a truly remarkable player. We made a nice comeback at the end of that game and he had a good look from the corner that missed. Game would have been tied at that point.
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I don’t if you all are able to see the current results of the voting, but Raef has overtaken Withey at present. If you want Withey to win, better call your friends!
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Raef deserves the win, although I picked Withey over LaFrentz. Loved Raef’s game, but his teams were the most talented yet underperforming tournament teams in my memory. Just kind of left me with a “meh” feeling about him and that whole late 90’s era. So many great players with nothing to show for it.
Withey on the other hand… warm fuzzzy memories of his defense during that tournament run in 11-12
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@DanR It’s kind of the same reasoning that I voted against Gooden. He seemed aloof during his time at KU. He was a great player, but left a team after the 2002 that had so much potential for 2003. His going pro was something I didn’t understand. I do get the money is enticing, but I recall he had a decent family and had he stuck around with Kirk and Nick, and Langford, and Lee, and Simien, and Miles, goodness gracious, we might have won every game by 20 points!
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Went ahead and participated this round.
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@BShark Thanks! This was a lot of work to put together. Was hoping people would participate.
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If you dont remember Raef, you sure as heck fire dont remember manning. CBS Sports is airing the 88 title game at 5 eastern on Saturday.
Helpful hint…turn the channel immediately following the game. The pain of watching a bunch of 70% shooters, all americans, and future pros missing a billion free throws is after that. I still hate Hakim warrick…and melo
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@bmensch1 I have watched the 88 game numerous times on YouTube. Never watched 2003. Never will either.
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@wissox said in 2nd round of the GOAT tournament Part 2:
@DanR It’s kind of the same reasoning that I voted against Gooden. He seemed aloof during his time at KU. He was a great player, but left a team after the 2002 that had so much potential for 2003. His going pro was something I didn’t understand. I do get the money is enticing, but I recall he had a decent family and had he stuck around with Kirk and Nick, and Langford, and Lee, and Simien, and Miles, goodness gracious, we might have won every game by 20 points!
Drew Gooden was a top 5 pick in the draft, that’s why he left after 2002. Once a player is projected to be drafted that high, it’s very rare to see a player of that caliber return to school the following season. Off the top of my head, Tim Duncan is the only player I can think of that was a projected lottery pick (top 3 to be specific in 1997) and came back for his next season. It’s the same reason why Julian Wright left after 2007 instead of sticking around for 2008 and getting himself a ring. It’s why Cole Aldrich, the Morris Twins, and T-Rob each left after their junior seasons as well.
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Blake Griffin played two.
Gooden was NPOY. Nothing left to prove, but a ‘chip would’ve been nice.
Raef’s Jr year the squad was one double overtime 2pt loss away from being undefeated in the regular season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I know all of that. I can’t wrap my mind around leaving when you have a really great chance to win a championship. Frank Kaminsky also came back for his senior year saying he was having too much fun in college to go play for half empty gyms in the NBA.
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Raef was potentially an NBA AA caliber talent before he got hurt. He had some epic moments at KU and was close to a total package on both ends of the floor.
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@bmensch1 nice! That’s a great idea. Ive never watched the 88 title game. Will do.
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@wissox said in 2nd round of the GOAT tournament Part 2:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I know all of that. I can’t wrap my mind around leaving when you have a really great chance to win a championship. Frank Kaminsky also came back for his senior year saying he was having too much fun in college to go play for half empty gyms in the NBA.
Part of a college coach’s job is looking out for the best interest of his players. Listen to interviews with any coach that regular deals with players who leave early for the draft like Roy, Coach K, Calipari, Self, Sean Miller, and so on and they all would’ve basically told Gooden to go pro and make that money because there was no guarantee he was still going to be projected that high the following season. You use Kamisnky as an example, but he wasn’t a projected lottery pick after his junior season like Gooden was.
Giving a player good advice, even if it hurts his own team is part the job. I’m sure Roy would’ve loved to have had Drew Gooden for the, but if a coach goes out of his way to try and talk a player into coming back that shouldn’t be coming back, word spreads among recruiters and then a coach gets labeled as not having his players best interests in mind and that hurts recruiting efforts.
At the end of the day, I’m sure everyone here would’ve loved to have Gooden back in 2003, but Gooden made the right decision to go pro. A top 5 pick, 14 years in NBA, played with LeBron, Duncan, and Dirk at different points in his career.
What happens if Gooden came back and suffered some catastrophic injury like say tearing and ACL or rupturing an Achilles tendon? No chance he has the career he had. Even without injuries, there’s little chance Drew Gooden goes top 5 in the draft since that 2003 draft was one of the most top heavy drafts ever with LeBron headlining that class. I’m sure that played a factor as well in Gooden’s decision to leave early.
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@bmensch1 thx too! If you know of games Would you please put them on “games on tv thread” so nobody will miss them? Appreciate it!
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Highlights of mine from that game. Milt Newton reverse layup early 1st half. Chris Piper shot clock beater. Dave Seeger of Oklahoma makes 6 3’s in first half. Billy Packer, the announcer keeps saying Kansas can’t keep up with Oklahoma at that pace.
To me the best play of the game, right near end of 1st half Danny gets a fastbreak and Oklahoma’s star Stacy King is running after him. Danny slows down at the rim, on purpose, so King can try to block his shot, and instead fouls him for an and 1. Brilliant Danny maneuver. He missed the FT, so it wasn’t a true and 1!
