TOUGH, TOUGH, WIN !!!
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@HighEliteMajor pretty sure they wouldn’t have fouled Greene!
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@icthawkfan316 graham got 2 pretty quick fouls in the first half. Not sure about his shoulder. He was really hurting after that hit and I was shocked he came back. I was hoping he would also come in to spell Wayne.
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"There is no one in the country that can stop Frank from driving."
UK did a good job by blocking his shots and Texas and even Oklahoma are going to do the same. I saw most of the U Conn-Texas game and Texas has some serious length that can actually play and hit from the outside. I am waiting to see how the front line of Texas does against Kentucky.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Ok then, leave your best free throw shooter on the bench. Your comment doesn’t make sense. The point is that you can try to get it to Greene; or, by default, you have a poor free throw shooter (Traylor) on the bench. It also makes it more difficult for them to stop the ball from going to Mason, which they did. It is common-place to take out poor free throw shooters late.
In fact, I just read that Self was getting ready to put Greene in, but changed his mind.
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Coach self indicated on a couple of occasions that they simplified the system greatly last year, he also indicated that the team did not perform defensively like he would have liked and part of it was due to the changes. As you know, Coach Self’s system starts with solid, tough defense and the offense starts with defensive stops, at least that is his preferred approach. I think that part of the problem with defense was the new rules of contact, and the way they were enforced affected teams that emphasize and play tough defense, like KU, a lot more than it did the ones that play mostly offense, since the rules were “tweaked” to favor offenses and higher scoring. Now that he has had a chance to adapt to the changes, we are seeing a much improved defense compared to last year’s.
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@HighEliteMajor I know. I just meant there’s no way they would have fouled Greene. I agree about having the best throwers out there. Just glad coach had faith and happy for Mari! Coach must have been really upset w/Greene or figured he would screw something up again. Beats me!
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Maybe Coach Self did not trust Greene handling the ball in that situation. Keep in mind that Greene had 2 TOs in 6 minutes, in comparison, Mason and Selden had 3 a piece but each played 36 minutes; Traylor had no TOs in 15 minutes. I get the impression that Coach Self knew today was not Brannen’s day.
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@JayHawkFanToo the rule interpretations killed us, but worse was Tharpe and Ellis on D. And then throw in the absense of Embiid!
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@JayHawkFanToo Maybe. This from kusports.com -
Asked if he felt pressure, Traylor, who had an abysmal semifinal against Tennessee, said: “No, because in the time out, coach was going to sub Brannen (Greene) in for me. He was like, ‘Brannen get in.’ He was like, ‘You know what? Mari stay in. You are going to make the free throws. You are going to knock ‘em down.’ I’m happy he trusted me and I’m glad I came through,” Traylor added.
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“You say you liked what you saw from our offense, I’m not as sold. It looked like it was Ellis or bust for a lot of the game. If they couldn’t get it to Perry or if he wasn’t in the game, it was pretty bad. Mason would do what he could, but it’s obvious that we’re not dynamic enough in the post without Ellis to run high post offense, and with Wayne struggling it really hampers the rest of the perimeter threats.”
There are things I’m not thrilled about… mostly… that our #2 guy on offense (Wayne) is yet to show up this year. I’m totally puzzled on Wayne. His game was way off today. Most of his shots were ill-advised. I’m thinking his confidence is off. If he hopes to go to the league next year he certainly isn’t starting the year off right. It will be a lot tougher for him to earn confidence at the next level.
What I liked was the structure of our offense. Hey… we just beat MSU and we didn’t have a great stat line. But we did generate just enough offense to win.
Now imagine running this offense with an upbeat Wayne… hitting shots from 3 and penetrating. And a few more shots from others, like Svi.
I’ll be surprised if this team ends the year NOT hitting a higher % from 3 than in recent years. We’ve got several capable shooters, but also, this offense favors the shooters more than our past hi/lo “pass fast enough to create spacing” type offense. The offense we are running now has the capability of pulling defenders far out of position, giving our shooters more space. More space should equal better shooting %.
Perry is the key guy to make this work. He has to continue to become a threat all over the offensive floor. That will help create opportunities for all our guys. Throw in Frank’s drive and feed, long ball shooting from Svi and Brannen… post scoring with Cliff… Yes, I think we have a lot to cheer for.
And we have a defense that is starting to apply pressure. I think I have to go back to '08 as the last time we had a perimeter defense capable of pressuring the ball.
It is important that we keep improving every week and we have good fortune of few or no injuries.
“UK did a good job by blocking his shots and Texas and even Oklahoma are going to do the same.”
UK did a horrible job of stopping Frank from driving. They did a great job of blocking his shots. The key is for Frank to pass off on his drives and only take the shot when he can get it over the defense. Texas lost their PG, and Frank will be able to drive by their stubby PG with ease. Set your DVR for next Friday… Kentucky vs Texas This should be a good game to analyze Texas. I caught their win against UCONN and they already showed quite a bit of capability. I was amazed at how much muscle Myles Turner has already put on. He used to be a skinny boy. Not any longer! I guess they give those guys steroid-fed longhorn meat for din-din!
The key is to create off the drive, not gun it off the drive. Driving guards tear down defensive structure, opening shooters up.
“the rule interpretations killed us, but worse was Tharpe and Ellis on D. And then throw in the absense of Embiid!”
Oh so true! We also could have played better defense all around, but Tharpe and Ellis were atrocious. Self later said he coached it wrong. He kept telling guys not to foul, so they just backed off the pressure.
This current team is already a better defending team then what we took into March last year (after losing Embiid).
The big warning going off in my head is Wayne. His game has all but vanished.
I’m going to make a stab at what I think is wrong with Wayne. My guess is Wayne is a bit of a slow learner. Self has definitely changed up his offense this year and I think Wayne is almost as off-track as Kelly is.
I hope that is the issue, and I hope both of these guys play about 500% better after their Christmas break, when these guys practice a lot longer.
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I think you missed my point or more likely, I did not do a good job expressing what I meant. My point was why stop Mason’s penetration when he was not passing and he was met at the basket by a seven footer that blocked his shot? The idea of penetration by the PG is to either score if he is open or draw the defense in and kick it to the outside where there will be at least one player open. Mason drove to the basket, drew a crowd and still tried to score…we all know what that turned out.
Now, if he can do the same thing against Texas, that is penetrate, draw the defense in and then pass the ball to the open man, then we will have something; however, if he tries to score over the trees the result will be similar to the UK game…Texas is really, really long and talented.
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@drgnslayr I’ve thought that too, but just couldn’t say it.
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@HighEliteMajor we knew that.
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@HighEliteMajor said:
@Crimsonorblue22 Ok then, leave your best free throw shooter on the bench. Your comment doesn’t make sense. The point is that you can try to get it to Greene; or, by default, you have a poor free throw shooter (Traylor) on the bench. It also makes it more difficult for them to stop the ball from going to Mason, which they did. It is common-place to take out poor free throw shooters late.
In fact, I just read that Self was getting ready to put Greene in, but changed his mind.
Well HEM, since I like to pick bones with you so often, let me take this opportunity to say, I agree with you completely and emphatically. Playing Traylor late made no sense to begin with (Alexander is a better shot blocker, better post defender, less turnover prone, and a better free throw shooter), and keeping him in there to hit 1 and 1 free throws when you’re up by only 3 is straight playing with fire. I’m glad it worked out and in some ways I’m glad that Self was willing to show that much confidence in Traylor (especially after the egg he laid the previous game), but I really wouldn’t want to see him do it again. Ever.
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@konkeyDong I think when Self heard MSU shouting “Foul 31!”, it became a toughness / manhood issue. It was an identity-building moment.
And a “F*** you, Izzo” moment.
Now it’s time for Jamari to lead the team in floor burns this week in practice.
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@drgnslayr Totally agree with most of your post: I was scratching my head why Jamari gets so many minutes and was in at the end (even tho he iced both FTs), Frank blew my socks off today and sure hope he keeps it up, mixing up the offense was a sight for sore eyes, and finally yes, yes, yes on Svi! A joy to watch him play and I keep flashing forward and imagining him lighting up the NBA.
I have to part ways with you on Landen not getting more minutes tho, yes he has height, but I’ve been pretty disappointed about all aspects of his game beyond giving some good breather minutes to others.
What a great game to watch with so many things gelling.
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Right on!
Frank will have to score sometimes off his drives, or he’ll be less effective driving and feeding. It’s a tough challenge, but Frank is a tough guy. I have confidence he’ll figure it out. He has to know what space he needs to get his shot off, and he has to stay within that buffered space. He can also learn a bit more of the game so he can have more opportunities to score on bigs. That’s where he needs to use his body to shield the ball, and use the backboard (when possible) as a better pathway for the ball. On some of those drives, he has to realize his goal is to get the ball to the backboard without getting it blocked (then it’s goal tending if they touch it). This is a needed lesson from all our guys on how not to get smoked at the rim.
We’ve all seen boat loads of little guys shooting (and scoring) on post players at the rim by using the backboard and guarding the ball with their bodies.
Having said all that… most of the time, Frank needs to drive and PASS! If his drive opens up a 3-pt shooter then he needs to do the math, and go for the 3-pt attempt over the 2-pt attempt.
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“I have to part ways with you on Landen not getting more minutes tho, yes he has height, but I’ve been pretty disappointed about all aspects of his game beyond giving some good breather minutes to others.”
We definitely need solid play from either Landen or Hunter… definitely down the stretch of a long season.
Self has to commit minutes to one of these guys. If he doesn’t, we’ll be toast, especially in games where our bigs get in foul trouble. It’s not enough to just have Cliff, Perry and Bam-Bam.
Landen has been at Kansas for a while now, but he is pretty much a newbie in games. He doesn’t have near the experience of Bam-Bam or Perry. But he does play fundamental offense. For example, he’s the only guy that hedges back the man guarding him to open up a lob pass into him. He does still make basic mistakes (like his high ball screen foul).
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Anyone else notice how well Perry is using “pick and pops” on the perimeter?
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@HighEliteMajor There was something deeper going on than who would shoot free throws. Jamari has not been the same player since Coach installed Landen as a starter. i think Coach made a dumb move which could’ve cost us a game, but it was absolutely brilliant in what it did for Jamari’s confidence. It told Jamari that Coach believed in him, and look what happened.
@drgnslayr Mobile Perry has his “wireless” signal hooked in!
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Self started to put Greene back in the game but stayed with Mari. Mari had just raced down the court twice on what Izzo said were open Misses and poor transition by his team. Mari was with each of those open fast breaks and bothered both of them and came up with a manly rebound before he would go to the line. We still had the lead and with the Matador defense that Greene was playing and weak passing on offense, I loved that Self told Mari to hit the Free throws and kept him in to play defense rather than risk playing with a weak link. Greene was useless yesterday, and Mari was useless against UT, but against MSU, Mari was a MAN inside at the end.
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@wrwlumpy Think close to the end I saw stat line where we were 17 of 26 FT’s & that may have been before Traylors’ 2. Also heard Gurley once that for each missed in game FT, each who missed shoots 100 for each next miss practice. Tanking 10 FT’s is a ton IMO. Leaving way too many pts on the table can bite your rear more often than not. Coach got lucky but it did seem that Greene’s head was not in the game… Have to watch it again closer & find more flaws other than Wayne’s pitiful shot selections or failures defending breaks & run outs. Also am still concerned about Landon’s fracture & Graham’s shoulder. Far too early to get banged up & this may be the real key to such extended minutes for others. Didn’t notice yesterday (was cooking during game) but I did see Graham get popped & obviously hurt vs Tennessee. Many of us know first hand how excruciating a shoulder injury can be & how long recovery can take. Just not a good prognosis in many instances.
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Found the following comment on Bleacher Report website:
“I was watching a basketball game and a hockey match broke out! Referee’s let KU hand check and hold which is their MO. How can a game that physical not allow both teams in the bonus the second half? Once again, KU wins from the FT line.”
Almost sprayed my computer screen with coffee.
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@drgnslayr He is also defending a heck of a lot better
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@drgnslayr Perry didn’t knock his treys down though, he can shoot it better than that
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Mari played heads up when he was in the game, I believe he was the one that called the TO when Perry was on the floor getting piled on.
I think the reason Self kept him in there is MSU went a little smaller and quicker at the end of the game and Slef wanted someone who could guard the perimeter and move quickly.
Not sure that guarding 15-20 feet away from the rim is Cliff’s strong point.
This team has options on both sides of the ball. Svi, Green, Oubre will all get solid minutes come conference time.
The bigs, can all run the floor and can spell each other.
Mason is the the key on offense on how its going to run, I think Graham will learn a lot this year and be very good by the end of the season to spell him as well, without much drop off.
Wayne’s D gets better the worse his shot gets. If he’s ice cold, his guy isn’t going to have an easy night. If he’s on, his guy still isn’t going to have fun. He is a lock down defender.
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At that time KU was on offense so talking about who is the better defensive player is irrelevant. Had they not scored, he could have substituted for a better defensive player after the play if necessary. In any case, KU would have been 3 points and MSU would have been looking to score a 3 pointer so perimeter defense was more important.
When players are hitting everything, the call it being in “the zone;” Greene was the exact opposite in this game and had already committed 2 TOs in 6 minutes of play. I really believe Coach Self realized that and wisely kept Jamari in the game.
As I mentioned before, Sometimes I think that Greene is somewhat bipolar; he is either on or off. Against Rider he was on and had 17 point and no turnovers in 19 minutes; yesterday he had 0 points and 2 TOs in 6 minutes. A no brainer to leave Jamarari in, IMHO. At this point, what Greene brings to the table is outside shooting (when he is on) and nothing more; his ball handling and defense are below average, so if he is not hitting from the outside it makes no sense to play him.
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Hey folks, not to worry, but James Joyce “Jaybate” has been missing from our site. Hope he’s not having health issues again.
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@brooksmd Can’t imagine which game that dude was watching? We missed a boatload of FT’s. Rebounding & excellent total team defense inside of 2 min sealed the deal. MSU did not attack SVI which I thought was our weakest link on the floor. Guys were hedging, checking, calling out the switch & no one let down. Even if Wayne was awful from the field, he played his ass off hounding & rebounding when it counted most. Traylor also contested Dawsons final shot & kept the rebound alive & the clock ticking. And not to be overlooked we still had that one foul to give with appx 8 ticks & Wayne used it at just the right time. Damn savvy play from these 2 vets when it was all on the line. Still, Perry quietly ends up MVP & Frank played as big with 10 boards as anyone on the floor. Absolutely rabid about the dish to Cliff & how he filled the lane to receive the pass with a finish. That was textbook BB. Also Cliff & Landon are both looking for the P & R pass from Frank & SVI & that I love. Oldest play in the game & it works like a charm when the two are on the same page. This was a very important game for many reasons, none of more importance than confidence & chemistry. Also Kelly got valuable minutes a in prime time, top notch game which will only help down the road. He is far too talented to stay behind very long. He will surface in the future but Bill him get his feet wet a little at a time. My biggest concerns are the mechanical changes in Wayne’s shot & Landon maybe still held back by injury. Greene had an off game but if he can stay out of the doghouse, he’ll be fine as well-is just a soph also but great, energy & talent. Was a great, gritty performance for a team so young. When you call 2 Sophomores vets, the glass is surely over half full. RCJHGOKU !!
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@Lulufulu yea I think he bricked a couple from straightback behind the foul line. had some pretty moves underneath the bucket tho.
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@wrwlumpy yea, wondered that myself as I looked around for his take on the game
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I wonder if Greene’s concussion is affecting his play?
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@wrwlumpy Remember when Perry got knocked loose goose last year and tried to shoot a free throw? He was timid for about two weeks after that when he was in the paint.
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@wrwlumpy didn’t bother him during his 17 pt game.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Concussions are usually worsened by air travel, the cabin pressure can really mess with your head after a concussion.
A Dr. will tell you not to fly 24 hours after getting a concussion usually unless you are under medical supervision, because of what can happen. Blood clot, stroke.
So I would guess that the plane ride to Orlando may have brought up some issues Green had, be it headaches, blurry vision, or fatigue.
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@JRyman you are the expert! Hasn’t it been a couple of weeks?
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@JRyman You are also warned not to fly immediately after diving & even a few thousand foot change in elevation up or down can cause compression issues. Driving in the mountains has affected my chronic sinus conditions several occasions & kicked in dental infections, headaches, etc. First time I went over the divide in my 20’s, my nose ran blood like krap runnin through a goose.
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@Crimsonorblue22 a couple of weeks since?
I know when I flew 18 months ago it really messed me up for about 36 hours.
Now when we were in Estes Park this summer I was OK, except when it came to being in shape for hiking at that altitude, but no headaches.
I met a guy who played college football and while returning a punt got KO’d on the tackle. He moved to Phoenix because of the weather conditions and altitude. He hates the heat, but since it changes very little it helps him continue to function.
