What if college teams got to use their all time best players?
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Cedric Hunter was a pretty good point, for what might possibly be the best KU team of all time.
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@Blown JoJo just got nominated for the college hall of fame, I doubt your other excellent choices will ever be. I didn’t grow up with JoJo, although I do remember a few NBA games with him at the end of his career.
So, I’d put JoJo and Kirk, I mean Cedric, oops, I mean Aaron, dangit, I really meant Sherron, or Mario.
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@wissoxfan83 Best I’ve ever watched at Kansas. He could flat do it all. NBA also. Simply phenomenal.
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@wissoxfan83 Jo Jo was as skilled as a Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe, KC Jones, & yes his ball handling & passing was as good as even Cousey or Roberston, who I watched in the twilight of their careers. Some guys just transcended the position they played & Jo Jo was exactly one of those guys who was on a different level. They actually played D in the L when Jo was there & the emphasis was universally more of a team game. Some of our rats must understand also, that there was about half the # of teams as now & the game was not watered down like at present. He was head & shoulders above 90% of the guards he matched up with in college or pros. Probably as disappointed as I’ve ever been in all my years watching Jayhawk BB is when he was called out of bounds as he nailed his famed shot vs UTEP at the buzzer. I can compare that to the Don Denkinger safe call of Hal McCrae in the 88 Series. Clearly wrong, but was up to fate to decide the outcome for all those who played.
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@globaljaybird My avatar Photo.
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JoJo had the best Basketball body for a guard ever. So many NBA Championships, so many All-Star games. He and KC Jones were the Bomb.
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The shot that was disallowed which led to the Movie, Glory Road, about the all black team from Texas Western vs the all white team from Kentucky. Sorry to say that the ex-Jayhawk Adolph Rupp made several racist remarks before the game, which is why we probably don’t mention him as much as Dean Smith. However, the top three teams in NCAA Victories have arenas that are all named after Jayhawks. Allen Field House, The Dean Dome, and Rupp Arena.
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@wrwlumpy That’s the shot lump. More than once I’ve thought of complimenting you on that pic & today is the day. Very few guys in that era conditioned themselves religiously, plus looked like that. Jo Jo White just played some bad ass basketball !!
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Much was made of that UTEP team and a lot of that is selective memory. The movie makes it appear as if UTEP was the only team using black players and everybody else was using white players; it might have been true for Rupp and Kentucky and maybe the MU slavers, but many teams were relying on black players long before that. The movie implies that UTEP was the first team with predominantly black players to win the Tournament in 1966, It fails to mention that as far back as 195, Bill Russel and Casey Jones led San Francisco to the title, in 1962 Cincinnati won with 4 black starters and the next year Loyola did the same thing. If I recall correctly (please correct if I am wrong) KU started only one white player, Ron Franz, in the game against UTEP.
Many of the racial attacks presented in that movie never happened and were made up to add drama. At one point the coach tells the players you are the future of professional basketball…really?..at the time, the top 4 players in the NBA were Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russel, Oscar Robertson and Elgin Baylor. Again, the movie is a long ways from reality, much like the bad call on JoJo’s shot.
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The Storyline was an ALL black team vs an All White team for a National Championship. The fact that Jo Jo was black was down played in the movie.
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@wrwlumpy Great work with the archive photo. Sadly, the great JoJo White was before my time, Ive never even seen footage, how sad to admit. I grad h.s. in mid80s, so the MJ era-to-current is simply what I know. Have heard of all the older era greats, of course. I dont like what the nba has become, although the playoffs is still good basketball, as the Spurs beautifully demonstrated.
My only issue with the photo is that look at Jo Jo’s left foot: see the shadow line of his foot edge on the floor? And thats only to mid-foot…That shadow line goes directly to the out-of-bounds line–where’s his heel? I see that in this photo the heel IS elevated, but if he at all planted his heel, he’d be out of bounds. And, hate to say, but most refs, if they see half the foot suspended outta bounds, especially from their sideline position, they’ll call a player “out”. See where his heel is, hard to get a full power elevation without coming down, coiling up, and elevating straight up. Look at his height on subbsequent pic’s of his shot–he’s straight up. Now see your coiling-up photo, as Jojo is gathering himself, he’s still moving laterally. He almost certainly landed that left heel. Thats a maximum elevation jumper (needs 2 legs).
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Well, you just shot a great story all to hell. I’ve thought the same thing. Basketball is a game of inches. How many times has Brannen in the course of a play been called out of bounds. That’s why they have lines. Also, the ref is right on the line and is watching the full play. He is going straight up in the second photo from where he was in the first. If he were more forward, I could believe the celebrated story. My high school friend and hero who played a year ahead of me was in the back court with JoJo. Bruce Sloan. Because of his enrollment in college ROTC, JoJo had to go into the Marine Corp for a while. Red Aurbach was able to get his Viet Nam War service shortened to be able to play for the Celtics. I think his Pre-Hudy body was mostly given to him by the KU Marine ROTC, because at that time almost all Jarheads were sent to Viet Nam.
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From Wikipedia.
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@Blown Yep. Hinrich was my first though for guard 1. Wiggins for my 2 guard. No offense to 'Rio but adding Wigs would be ultra sick!
Then the obvious front line of Wilt and Danny and Paul.
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I considered Wiggy, too based on talent. But after thinking about it I believe he would just sit in the 3pt line and do nothing
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Gosh, I guess I’m too old for this forum, but the bias for some of the more Jayhawks in the past two decades over some of the greats from earlier eras is difficult to justify on almost any basis. Can’t really disagree with Chamberlain and Manning in the front court, although a very strong case could be made for Lovellette - he is the second leading PPG scorer at KU (to Wilt), was player of the year, and lead the Hawks to one of their 3 NCAA championships. Robisch is another KU front court great. JoJo is a no brainer for a guard spot - the best ever at KU. While I love Hinrich, there is really no way he should get the nod over Valentine for one of the guard spots - Darnell was a first team All-American and 4-time B8 first teamer. Kirk only made third team All-American. Darnell also had higher PPG and APG averages. The fifth spot - guard-wing-front court - is tougher. No real argument with Pierce, although that seems to be more a reflection of his pro career (second only to Wilt’s) than his college career. Frankly, LaFrentz had better number and All-American creds at the same time as Paul. Collison also had stronger overall college career. I think a case could be made for Bud Stallworth. Gooden’s and Pierce’s KU numbers aren’t that dissimilar. With all due respect to some of my fellow posters, Wiggins and Embid are laughable as all-time greats based on their KU careers.
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@DCHawker t hanks for the enlightening! You make a lot of sense.
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Ditto for me. Very often the older players don’t get the credit they deserve.
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@DCHawker tell us more, we like to hear about these guys. I love watching Bud on post-games, he doesn’t mince words. Thanks for sharing!
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@Crimsonorblue22 well, I can’t speak to personal experience with Clyde and Wilt - at least when they were at KU - before my time. Have seen all the others play, however. Actually, I’ ve followed the Hawks more closely in more recent years - ESPN and this site make that easier - and don’t want to take anything away from the newer generation - indeed, Simien, Hinrich and Collison are three favorites, but I think many of the “old” guys are overlooked. And, if you compare stats and their accolades at the time, they stand pretty tall. Really speaks to the great tradition that is Kansas basketball.
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@DCHawker yes it does!!!
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@DCHawker Many here didn’t see the greats play-I certainly didn’t see anyone pre 70s so we are I am in The dark. And the stats have changed as in games played, bus rides vs train.or plane…
, training is night and day better, etc, etc. etc.
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@JayhawkRock78 no doubt those guys played for “the jersey”!
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I believe every KU fan should read up about the pre-ESPN players. So amazing individuals played for KU as @DCHawker mentioned. When I first looked at the list Lovellette and Valentine were names that came to mind. I did not see Lovellete play but I have read enough to be fairly familiar with him; I did see Darnell Valentine…what I remember is that he had thighs bigger than my chest…never have seen anyone quite like him.
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Valentine and Lovelette, I agree, but the best passer, big or small was Mark Randall. He would have been the perfect Big to play for Self. He did pretty damn good in the run and gun of Roy. Always in great position on defense and the smartest rebounder. He did not play fast but he was quick and seemed to always be in the right place. He was masterful in Madisn Square Garden in the pre season against number 1 at the time, Bobby Knight and the powerful Hoosier. His inside passing made Indiana look stupid. It was great beginning for the post sanction period and the start of the great years of Roy.
