Losing Frank to graduation still hitting me hard, even slightly more than losing in the Elite8. Yes KU ball will soldier on. But without one of the best warriors to ever put on the Crimson&Blue.
KU bball gets a yearly decent chance at a Final Four. But finds like Frank, regardless of ranking, just dont come along every year. Devonte has some SHOES to fill.
Hold on to your seat cushions, dentures, and wigs/toupees, when you see Newman play this coming season…His natural position is slashing-2, but has added improved 3pt shooting. McDonaldsAllAmerican alert, and a pent-up one, to boot…
@mayjay Great points on UConn. But what’s your gut feel on UConn now? Are they a destination job? Are they a top-recruit mentioned pick? They seem to me, at least, to be B-tier.
What, no Witherspoon?
No “Spoonie”??
In other news, Frank Mason is busy with his 13 NBA teams’ invited workouts…
Bluebloods: KU, KY, UCLA, UNC, Duke.
@drgnslayr Too cynical about Danny’s leaving, while not giving enough credit to Self’s concepts and teaching. Wake Forrest doesnt even look like an ACC-caliber team. Could it be that various kids simply havent panned out, for very different reasons? Lucas no hops, no hands, no fast twitch, not an alpha. Bragg showed promise Yr 1, even in the WUG, then flops in all areas despite KU-level coaching. Watch that Udoka kid. Find some faith.
@Kcmatt7 Well, the older generations most definitely were more racist. Not just deep South. Even in KS. Especially rural KS.
Somewhat tangential, but this is also why the progressives on both coasts look down on the Midwest/rural areas, as they consider us the slowest to change attitudes, beliefs, values. (For better or worse, of course, hotly debated across several issues, politically speaking).
Newman Mickey-D avg 13ppg as a freshman at MissState, playing out of position as PG instead of SG. Kind of like EJ forced to do. But 13ppg alone as a Div1 freshman, even in the Bill Self structure would be called a starter. But, Newman gets to learn system, get stronger by Hudy, and comes in at his comfortable position, and now with that chip on his shoulder, something to prove. All good for '17-18…
Daddy Ball a perfect example of cheap attempt at pot-stirring, to simply cause hype. What he has no feel for, is when all the attention starts to turn into bad PR. Yes, daddy, everybody is talking about your son, but now some are even starting to go counter-grain, simply because of daddy’s absurdly positive grandiosity about his son–now they looking harder for Lonzo’s bad qualities. Human nature for people to try to shoot down a chest puffer. Cut him down to size.
This guy managed to insult MJ and LeBron both, said something about LeBron’s kids.
Do you like demolition derbys? Sit ringside for this one. A family affair.
@jaybate-1.0 Perhaps the recruiting times have changed since the early 2000s, and even the mid-2000s–maybe that has impacted Self some. Also, BRush, RussRob, Chalmers, Shady…all those guys were recruited at the tail end of KU-Nike era. Maybe the shoe thing helped us, sort of, then. Self has also had bad luck with some recruits, like #1 PG Selby, who arrived snake bit by fate, & then didnt help his cause with his own decision making. Same for Cliff Alexander. Burns Illini with the hat-fake, then burns KU with the “yeah, I’m eligible” fake.
Self also maybe made a few mistakes with 5star recruits, such as EJ. The whole Brady-vs-EJ debates raged. Ever since then, Self seems very eager to play his frosh, even low-ranked frosh, to develop them quicker. See Mason and Devonte.
Also, cannot deny that the level of skill in highschoolers has improved, and again I’ll point to Mason and Devonte. As frosh, they were playable, whereas 10-12 yrs ago a kid in the 60s-70s would have best redshirted and developed for a year or two. Tyshawn also was play-able, out of necessity, so he’s an imperfect frosh example, but he arrived in 2009.
Tyshawn, Mason, Buddy Hield are great examples of 4yr players. Certain players do better with certain types of coaches.
I do think Self has evolved for the better compared to his much more rigid pre-2014 version. In everything. Maybe this is all good, as it keeps the professional challenge for him from going stale.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I’ll be at Memorial Stadium, but inexplicably without my seat cushions for my old butt, nor any bags to carry stuff in.
KU football cant win against its’ own institutional bungling.
BigDoke as a raw freshman took 5th yr senior Lucas’ starting spot. He was already better. Beasted agaist Duke. Now, he isnt expected to be a whole lot better, but if his stated plan was to only be at KU x 2 years, then he needs to put up stats in a major way, and Im sure Self has told him. Just improve his conditioning, and improve his FT%. If he thinks he’s added a face-up jumper, show us.
We need fast-twitch athletes in the post. Nobody is going to miss Lucas or Bragg. I will miss Coleby, as he had some quick & nasty in his game. Billy Preston, as a McDAA, hopefully is play-able as a frosh. Lightfoot with his range and rebounding knack, needs to get stronger and continue improving. Got rebounds, but weak finisher as a freshman. The Wm&Mary guy will obviously be part of the committee, but honestly, just about anybody will be an upgrade over Lucas and Bragg.
Do not forget how totally exposed KU’s post-play was against TCU (without Josh Jackson), and against Oregon.
Do you all really want to “thank” Bill Self for his total smoke & mirrors job with KU’s post play last season? I guess a little bit, just because of the Conf Title…or do you give the credit to Frank & Josh?
Royals get their own category, but no Chiefs category?
What about KC letting Jamaal Charles become a Bronco?
Will this be the year Alex Smith gets an NFL caliber offensive line?
@Lulufulu Another way to state the situation is: This year it will still be bigs-by-committee, although unproven, this year’s “committee” is better than last year’s, on paper. They still havent played as a unit yet.
Personally, hated to see Coleby transfer. Not because he’s a savior, but because his 12-18mpg, potentially, could have been very useful as a 25% piece of post play. He would have sub’d for Doke. Lightfoot subbing for Preston. But now, we try to fit in the Wm&Mary guy in that committee.
Anyone that saw what happened to Lucas vs Oregon will realize one of our most fundamental problems with last year’s team. I dont have to “sell” Lucas short. He already proved my point.
Replacing the 1-man dynamism of Josh Jackson, and the 1-man dynamism of Mason, is the 2-headed problem. We just lost 2 alphas.
@wissox Good post! It reminds me also of some good fortune also needed. Imagine if we were playing Oregon with Udoka giving us 15-20min in that game? What if Bragg never fell thru the floor this season? We had no post game, other than a smoke & mirrors version (interpret: carefully orchestrated, what we could and could not do with Lucas). But we got exposed in the Dance. Self’s greatness got us that far, but a fundamentally flawed team will get exposed in the Dance, most of the time.
2008 Jayhawks had no weaknesses. But still almost got felled by a bad shooting night vs Davidson. Or even to Memphis.
2012 had no depth, and were slow starting team, comeback kids, and that caught up with them. They likely would have beat any other team than KY.
My biggest focus is trying to understand where each KU team is at as they head into the big Dance. We have to be honest with ourselves about our own team, all the while of course still hoping that we get some luck and some breaks to go all the way and win it all, regardless of what a team’s defects may be in any given year. Because we are a 1- or 2-seed almost every year, I gotta think we will get our lucky run, just about any year now…!
Frank, Jayhawk nation will always be here for you! Will always be pulling for you.
@elpoyo I’m sure Hudy tried everything with Lucas. But some kids are fast-twitch athletes, and some are not. At this point, simply judge 6’10 Lucas like any pro-scout would judge him, and thats the point I’m making. Cant make someone explosive if they werent to begin with.
Lucas’ job in Self’s scheme was to box out, set screens, seal off his man, and get garbage put-backs, lob dunks, and hit FTs. He can be productive (in college), but in a blue collar way. Everytime he tried to push the offensive scoring envelope, he became very unreliable. Yet another description would be that he had the offensive mentality, but not the physical ability or scoring touch.
United we stand. Divided we fall. Ringside seats for all. Just watch. History repeats.
@DCHawker Not really remarkable as Calipari does what he does. If he doesnt get at least 3-4 playable top10-top15 guys each year, his system will tank that year.
@DoubleDD Great post. I felt it very unusual that a US president (Obama) would actually have “anti-American” views, as you put it. Or maybe a better term would be anti-American-ism. As a nation, we seem to now like to go counter-grain, until we are way, way off course, and have gotten away from our founding ideals. What is the value in getting away from the very ideals that made America, and that defined Americans for generations? Were not perfect, by any means. But deconstructing is an entirely different notion than fine-tuning away our flaws.
I dont understand why Obama kept wanting to convey a tone of being an apologist for American ideals? What made him think he could speak for us like that?
It took the founding fathers’ building blocks about 170yrs to create a superpower, but all of a sudden some kook like Bernie thinks we need to change it all, making no distinction between good or bad, but of course highlighting only the things that need improving. A multimillionaire with 3 houses who suddenly cares about us, eventhough his “ideals” led him to honeymoon in the USSR back in the cold war era. So which part of him is the facade, and which is real?? Even Hilary said you simply cannot promise free-college and free everything. But of course the minions fell for it.
Wasnt there another generation that was all self-happy, peddling self-love, open love, communal love, drugs, peace, flowers, antiwar…? I’m not sure if their contribution to American grit is net-negative or net-positive. I do like the breaking down barriers and brotherhood aspects, if anything, but thats about it.
Keep putting out “alternative” and “countergrain” cultural ideas (to the basic ‘American’ founding ideals), and see how far you can dilute down the fabric of the country. That’s the peril of putting a thousand “change this too” ideas out there. Stated another way: the founding fathers started a whole nation with their ideas, and I’d hindsight “judge” that they were onto something…since it grew and prospered beyond any of their expectations. Other nations have NOT propered like this, oh, but lets wholesale change it, not fine tune its problems. Lets move the entire 3rd world to the US and Western Europe, since our hearts bleed soooo bad for all those sufferring people everywhere. Erase all the borders, right?
How would all the “change” proponents and progressives do if we let them start their own country? Umm, I’m betting on the founding fathers’ concepts, only because they are proven. And they seem to have beaten all the socialists, bolsheviks, monarchies, communists, fundamentalist states, and fascists that we’ve seen over the last few centuries.
Dare anyone to come up with anything better…“change”? Be very careful what you wish for. Dont know what you got til its gone.
The “decline” of America, by the way, refers to the people currently alive in it (who are responsible for its direction), NOT referring to its founding ideals. How could it.
I think Self doing what he always does. Recruiting from wherever. He has an eye for it.
The big drama will be if Lonzo gets passed up (initially) in the draft, going a bit later than expected. Daddy Ball will squirm. Lonzo will look his usual stone faced self.
Balls to the Wall. Accept whats coming, daddyB.
@BeddieKU23 Agreed on location. For a lot of kids, it matters “WTH is kansas?”, while to others it doesnt, and they do look at facilities, tradition, coaching, etc. Playing time right away seems to be a major theme, and that hasnt changed. Or maybe, everybody is promising lots of mpg, so that then goes out of the equation, and the other parameters factor in.
@jaybate-1.0 Fox News mentioned Dday several times during the day and night. Showed pictures of that day on the beaches.
I played Call of Duty, World at War (old game that never gets old, you get to shoot all the guns, but I dont like the de-tuned Springfield rifle. A .3006 is a .3006 regardless of what gun shot it!). I ordered some dvds about Panthers and Tigers and Shermans.
I absolutely bludgeoned myself by reading of the meatgrinder of the Eastern Front.
War and remembrance. Those who forget, simply must brace themselves for mankind’s limitations, as we’ll keep repeating our usual blunders.
@justanotherfan Your post “oregon didnt kill us offensively with Bell”, only made me think about that game, which was like seeing old footage of a bomber getting attacked in a running battle and then finally going down in a long downward blaze.
Bell didnt kill us offensively, but he F’n owned Lucas. Lucas couldnt do anything. Totally exposed. Athleticism is a currency all its own, Bell possesses, Lucas clearly does not. BigDoke has it (but does he have the conditioning?), eventhough from skillset standpoint, Doke is still raw. But look what Doke did even in 1 game against Duke. Coleby had it–nasty quick stickback dunks after offensive rebounds. A rarity in 5yrs of Lucas. And, make no mistake, Bill Self replaced his “trusty” 5th yr senior in the starting lineup with Doke, only to lose Doke then to the ligament injury. Self made his choice early, which really messed with Lucas’ psyche for a few weeks.
Pedestrian post-play is how I’d describe last year without Doke. Let’s not get started about the hole in the floor that Bragg fell thru, all on his own. Because he did arrive with ability, we saw it as a frosh, even as early as the WUG games. But that’s pretty much on Bragg.
The most vexing thing about that Oregon game was watching the WRONG coached-gameplan for the 2nd half to make hot-hand Mason actually try to dish repeatedly to Lucas in the post. Take the ball out of Mason’s hands to “get teammates involved”. Tale of 2 halves: check Mason’s stats: 17pts 1st half, only 4pts 2nd half, and ask yourself why? When nobody in the nation was able to stop that tank from scoring? Come on, Bill–poor game mgmt–you stopped Frank. Josh tried the 2nd half. Should have been 2 alphas just going to work. Josh needed Frank to be Frank. Bill clearly wanted Frank to become Aaron Miles or RussRob in the 2nd half…(distributive PG), or so it would appear…
Added 3 D-linemen this week, 2 x 3stars, 1 2 star. 2 of them are juco.
What I like is 1 5star WR, 2 4star WRs, a 4star RB, a 3-4star dual threat TX QB on the roster. Not sure if aTm’s Quiv Gonzalez was a 4 or 5 star, so I counted him as a 4.
KU currently with the 12th ranked football recruiting class… (may change, of course).
Look at all the transfers going on right now in bball and ftball. Self and Beaty both having to deal with that right now. Its given KU ftball 2 x SEC wide receivers now in the Alabama transfer, and LaQuiv Gonzalez, who came from aTm. And a grad xsfer Nebr O-lineman. And 2 QBs, while Cozart transfers, as does the other backup QB.
And Self picked up 31ppg and 18rpg with the Lawson twins leaving Memphis. Literally took half that team’s production because they were mad at Tubby. Tubby not for tele anymore…
Speculation: In the NBA, would Mason be better than Chalmers was/is in the NBA?
@HighEliteMajor Just my speculation that Self possibly told Mason to involve his teammates. Charles Barkley during the halftime break said something similar, I felt odd about it.
Or, it could have been Devonte or Landen that spoke up, asking to get the ball, as they wanted to help and do their part.
So, whatever happened in the lockerroom, what we saw was a different Mason the 2nd half. Only 4 pts out of that stud is unfathomable. How ironic that nobody all season stopped him, not even Oregon in the first half, yet he only goes for 4pts. I recall him feeding Lucas and feeding 0pts-Devonte, who specifically was the focus of Altman’s gameplan.
Nobody helped Mason 1st half. Josh didnt get much help the 2nd half. And none of my speculation is blaming Mason. At all. I’ll blame Self for switching his soldier (Frank) to an alternative task.
@JayHawkFanToo Its a worthless discussion. Twist what I said some more and see how fruitful that is. Hmm, no where in my post(s) did I say no one on the KU team did no wrong. Fact is, I actually posted that Self isnt infallible, and nor is Mason. The KU players are exactly the ones that didnt execute, so how can you speculate that I said or even insinuated that they did “no wrong”. In fact, that game is full of KU mistakes.
Ha, at least we now have your “speculation”, speculating on what I must be assuming. The only thing I was wondering, I can summarize in 1 line: was there a halftime adjustment by somebody, Self or not, that created the result we saw? And then there was Charles Barkley’s observation on the halftime booth show about Frank “needing to get his teammates involved”, and that got me wondering what would happen in the 2nd half–before the 2nd half was even played… Then I saw the 2nd half unfold, and simply watched Mason’s production, and what he was trying to do.
I dont need the last word, man. But you can run from the discussion if you want, free country. Truth is, your last post is now speculating on what I “must have” assumed–at least we now have your speculation, but its a cheapie, since our discussion really doesnt matter. I’m more interested in what my fellow KU alums & KU fans think, especially if they gave any thought to what Barkley said in the half-time break. That’s precisely what got me thinking, and only because Frank went more distributive-PG, compared to the 1st half (same game, 2 different halves).
What I dont buy is the “tired legs” assumption on Frank, of all players to suggest that on. Maybe he simply went cold, that’s an OK assumption. It happened to Sherron vs UNI, and the whole team last year vs Nova. But to suggest KU was more tired, especially after the early KC conf tourney exit, simply is with little merit.
I was prepared to live and die by Frank Mason (&Josh). And we died. Of course there’s many explanations for that 2nd half? But isnt this also where we CAN discuss additional speculation? (seen many discussions on petro-shoe-oligarchy, Calipari smoke-there’s-fire discussions…). Eh? What say ye? Did you at least hear Barkley’s comment? Thats what got this idea started, and none of this matters if KU won, and Devonte hit 3 threes, etc. But we didnt. So, not being blessed with alpha dogs every year, what were our alphas doing in that 2nd half? One of them had 4pts. Too good to only have 4.
Again, probably shouldnt take my speculation for actual explanation. Explanation is like reporting on what happened, vs, what I was doing is wondering why/what may have happened, simply to foster discussion. What happened to Frank’s production 2nd half? And why?
Maybe it is unanswerable.
@HighEliteMajor Agree on Bragg, and now he picks a party school, AzState, as a place to try to get serious
@kjayhawks Nice breakdown. Believable projections. Hope you are right.
Interesting to see how DG will lead, now that its not just for a Mason-breather. I’m remembering Elijah Johnson’s assassin role behind Tyshawn’s lead role, yet couldnt do the same as lead dog all by himself the following year. But I think Devonte is different and has his own mojo. He can play off of Malik’s “alpha” and still assassinate. He does need to get better at attacking like Frank.
Is that asking too much? Mr.Mason attacked better than any guard under Self, with the closest others being Sherron and Keith Langford, and maybe senior year Tyshawn. DG, to me, seems about a half notch below Tyshawn in his rim penetrations.
@HighEliteMajor Ha! Love the sarcasm. Also agree with no sure-fire formula. The mid-major land mine: Self keeps scheduling very good mid-majors. The elite program danger. We’ve played Duke and KY alot recently. Only sure-fire thing would be how to get a team playing to peak effectiveness for 6 games straight, especially those last 4 against very good competition. Self’s mentioned it over the years, if he or any coach knew how, they could bottle it. Brad Stephens doesnt even know, nor does Mark Few. Nor does Coach K or Calipari. Roy’s team won a NC despite having an ugly offensive night, but actually played D. Go figure.
Is there any Big12 team that can break Self’s loud snoring thru the conference season?
@elpoyo Oregon proved exactly this:
Lucas was a pedestrian, non-athlete, manning our post. Nothing Hudy could do.
Big guards can shoot over little guards.
Lady luck needed to advance in the Madness. We didnt get it with our 3%, nor with Ducks’ timeclock beating 3s.
Frank Mason and Josh Jackson needed help, which they didnt get. (in that game)
No matter who your team is, pivotal ref calls can indeed affect a game. Either for or against.
Hudy affects conditioning and physique, molding a player with specifics for his position in Self’s system. Guards get different workouts than bigs. But what can Hudy do about mindset and nature of a player? Very little.
Basically you are right OR wrong, depending on what aspect of KU basketball you are referring, based on if Hudy can impact that aspect or not.
But this is silly exercise, since a whole national organization decided she gets this award, not you or me or Bill Self. Hmm, why did they reach that consensus? Just because she’s a girl? Doubt it.
@Kcmatt7 But would you say the Pats O-line is better than KC’s O-line? That was my only comparison. I happen to really like Alex Smith. Is he KC’s only 1st round QB, number 1 in the draft, if I’m not mistaken. So we got him. But what the “heck” have we put around him? Alex was a gunslinger QB at Utah under Urban Meyer.
Trent Green can tell us KC fans what happens in successive seasons when you start to lose your ProBowl O-line, 1 by 1, or 2 at a time. The RBs suffer also, ask LJohnson. He didnt quite have the line that Priest Holmes did. Why exactly did TGonzalez leave KC? He wanted a chance at a SuperBowl. Player personnel decisions…
@Texas-Hawk-10 Awesome rundown on the Louisiana guys, thank you! There isnt this type of excitement or recruiting going on at Purple, is there? Snyder doesnt have an audience with LSU/Bama/SEC type recruits, does he?
If Beaty’s shrewdness with his asst coaching hires carries over into his playcalling, this whole enchilada just started to grow some wheels…the jimmys and joes to run those x’s and o’s, so they say.
@Blown Already can see he has more offense then Moody or Lucas. Must also consider quality of opposition seen in video also. If he’s eligible to play this coming season, he’ll help right away. Predictions would say a “piece”, not a superstar.
Agree with the various takes above, thanks to all who commented. This season, for KC, seems to be a crossroads or even a last hurrah for many of the veterans. Maclin already cut…
@Kcmatt7 You summed it perfectly: Venezuela would be a rich nation if it was ran correctly. Too much corruption and mistrust. Still brandishing about their “rebel” rhetoric, while their people starve. Some revolution. But no, we cant let big biz run business, especially since that is what they’re good at. No, keep the controlling hand TIGHT, as you choke off your own people, and kill off, literally any hope your own people had with that colorful rebel rhetoric. How many times in history are we going to see this sad story play out yet again. Act 232444543, and counting… Next micro-brained rebel…please…
We should be good. We have SEC WRs (Gonzalez from aTm, and now this kid from Alabama). But as stated above by many, O-line play and QB play will determine sustaining drives & scoring. Look at KC as an example of marginal O-line play, the QB doesnt have any time for downfield plays, and ground game suffers also. Look what kind of pocket time Tom Brady gets.
Yeah, Olynyk…Definitely had it coming, his track record of being a big body with little NBA-level skill other than garbaaj and intimidation. Didnt like his stupid hair-do in college either. That 80s look died with spandex pop metal. Kelly Oubre, you go, man, knock him on his ass again, if he does it again. Or learn better tricks to punish him in other ways. 6’7 wings like Oubre come naturally equipped with better speed and sharper elbows.
Trump? Hope he can make good and simply give us all a better deal. Fix some things, actually. And give our enemies the rawest deal possible. I think he can.
Dems? Current far-Left types simply need to stop being butthurt. Hilary cant throw in the towel. What and awful campaign. Go ahead and attack Trumps extended family, and see if those attempts make such Dems “look” better. Trying to take the low road to get to a higher place? Ha, what logic. And I had little issue with old school Dems of a generation or two ago, like JFK or even Carter.
Republicans? Trump is different than them, so some of them find it hard to venture out of their box. Well, the American public spoke. And note to the Dems: You cannot get any more electoral votes from winning CA even if you got 99% of all Calif votes, duh. What a pointless fact that Hilary won the popular vote–of course, but Calif and NY dont speak for every other state now, DO THEY? Find someone in the DemParty strategy committee who decided to have Hilary not set foot even in some key states. Was that a public “snub” by her, before votes got cast? Wow, talk about accidentally falling on yer own sword…what a lesson. And they spent 4x the $ the Repubs did. And they had all major media, except for 1 network. But lets find some way to blame the Russians. Because Russian Red Army barricades kept Hilary’s motorcade out of those key states all thru the campaign, ya…And the Red AirForce kept her plane from landing in those states, ya…
What purple cat system will never have: farm boy Oline (yes) but coupled with SEC caliber WRs, as KU does now (Quiv from aTm and the Alabama transfer).
We just added Nebr farmboy, 3star, grown man.
Coaching and playcalling and schemes likely have grown and evolved with experience also.
Not only are the players on a growth curve, but Beaty has been also. Learning to not micromanage so much, putting a proper coaching team in place, and playcalling for the AirRaid getting more reliable and productive as the stability of same-system, and overall depth and confidence of the players grows…
It is building…and Purple could be scared. Maybe not this year, as Coach Bill Snyder returns a young, largely intact roster, now with experience, but certainly on the horizon.
Regarding KU fan attendance: Beaty following the old edict: Build it, and they will come…
Frank Mason will impress them (all) like only Frank Mason can…
Weber not a bad coach, and he’s beat Self more than once. But he has flaws in his personality, and in his recruiting…proven over time.
The thing to hate at KSU isnt Weber, or their players, who just want to play…but their fans. Look, Weber beat Self, they rush the court, Weber tied for Big12 title once, and just won a Tourney game…but those fans still want him gone.