Just an obversation



  • @jayballer73 We have answers at the 2, and at the 3. Both Marcus and Ochai were playing great, and then both got injured. No doubt we’re thin, and need more depth at guard, but that starting lineup is primo, imo.



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @dylans There’s a rationale for it. Loads of experience. We might not have 1 freshman starter next year. Offensively, we sure won’t look like the 30th best team, let alone the 3rd. Defensively, we could be as good as anyone in the country. So, who knows?

    It’s going to be a fun year, imo.



  • Weren’t we preseason #1 last year? 🏀🤬 down he went, so did we! I’m not a huge fan of transfers, Tarik black huge exception!



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @jayballer73 We have answers at the 2, and at the 3. Both Marcus and Ochai were playing great, and then both got injured. No doubt we’re thin, and need more depth at guard, but that starting lineup is primo, imo.

    Oh buddy if your counting on Marcus as an answer then we are screwed plain and simple v- - defense wise ya - - offense no fricking way - - No, we don’t have the answer at this point sorry



  • Crimsonorblue22 said:

    Weren’t we preseason #1 last year? 🏀🤬 down he went, so did we! I’m not a huge fan of transfers, Tarik black huge exception!

    Jeff Withey was okay



  • @BShark yes and Kevin young!



  • I forgot! Probably more🤔



  • Crimsonorblue22 said:

    I forgot! Probably more🤔

    Malik was eventually good. Most don’t work out well.



  • Malik should’ve come here to start with and stayed awhile.



  • @jayballer73 Garrett is an answer offensively if it’s the Garrett the few games before his injury when he was driving and finishing with confidence and authority. I think he had 3 straight 20+ point games before the high ankle sprain so the light had come on for him offensively. He was also shooting the 3 ball with more confidence at that point as well.

    This is a team that’s going to be relying very heavily on defense anyway and Marcus Garrett is the best defender on this team by a big margin. Don’t be shocked when he win B12 DPOY next season.



  • @jayballer73 You’ll learn to appreciate Marcus in time. We didn’t appreciate RussRob either…at first.



  • I’m ok with a single transfer player not a team of them. If Vick would’ve stayed gone we would’ve had Sam, Charlie, Dedric and KJ. That’s just too much of a pieced together squad. We have had several solid transfer including Withey, Young, Black and Newman but they weren’t on a team with 3 or 4 others at the same time.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 Exactly.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 exactly, Marcus Garrett is ahead of where Releford and RusRob were as sophomores IMO. If you read the book beyond the Phogg, RusRob wasnt allowed to take 3s after the first 5 minutes of the half because he was so bad at shooting. Releford averaged less than 5 points per game before the second half of his junior year.



  • kjayhawks said:

    @Texas-Hawk-10 exactly, Marcus Garrett is ahead of where Releford and RusRob were as sophomores IMO. If you read the book beyond the Phogg, RusRob wasnt allowed to take 3s after the first 5 minutes of the half because he was so bad at shooting. Releford averaged less than 5 points per game before the second half of his junior year.

    Easy, partner. I would suggest that we’re not talking the same league here.

    Garrett has shot roughly 25% from three. That is historically bad. You will not find another KU perimeter player that low after two full seasons as a rotation player, at least in the Self era.

    Releford was 37.8% as a freshman, and 32.5% as a sophomore. Of course, was over 40% his senior season. And he avg. 7.2 pts in the last half of his JR year, not 5, fyi. He was the fifth option there, after TRob, TT, EJ, and Withey. Releford was a stout role player. Great D. Garrett could be Releford if his shooting got more acceptable.

    RRob was 28.6% as a freshman and 32.2% as a sophomore. And stayed in the 32% range thereafter.

    As a comparison, Wiggins was 34%.

    As far shooting, when you dip below that 35% level, you are below average.

    But when you go below 30%, you’re scraping toward the bottom of the bell curve. Below 30% is really bad. Garrett is 25% for his career and has made no upward move from that purgatory level. And there is no hope gleaned from his shooting form.

    We all remember RRob being really bad from three his freshman season. But he shot better in that season than Garrett ever has.

    And this is a bigger deal. The eye test. Garrett has horrible – just horrible – mechanics. And he’s NEVER shot well, not even in high school as someone posted.

    Back in RRob and Releford’s day, Self was a control freak on threes. He’s evolved his approach on threes. Night and day, almost.

    Garrett has the worst mechanics from outside of any KU perimeter player I can remember.

    All of this Garrett discussion brings me to what I think is the key here – Garrett can absolutely help us win. He has helped us win. I wouldn’t trade him away. He’s a key cog. The other elements of his game are so good, that if the shooting spikes a bit, look out. I love having Garrett on this team. Self playing him in some key situations last season won us some games. His role just needs to be managed based on his poor shooting (which is a critical, critical element because it can hamper your entire offense, because of how the defense handles that poor shooter).



  • Texas Hawk 10 said:

    @jayballer73 Garrett is an answer offensively if it’s the Garrett the few games before his injury when he was driving and finishing with confidence and authority. I think he had 3 straight 20+ point games before the high ankle sprain so the light had come on for him offensively. He was also shooting the 3 ball with more confidence at that point as well.

    This is a team that’s going to be relying very heavily on defense anyway and Marcus Garrett is the best defender on this team by a big margin. Don’t be shocked when he win B12 DPOY next season.

    oh for sure you won’t get ANY argument about the defensive end. - Offensive he is handicapped - -you going to see the defensive player not playing his as tight - -give him a little more space forcing to shoot from the outside and taking away the drive on him - -that happens he is screwed unless he has magically developed his shot



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @jayballer73 You’ll learn to appreciate Marcus in time. We didn’t appreciate RussRob either…at first.

    roflmao - – Ha that’s good buddy I like you - -only one little problem. - -I do respect I by far have nothing against him. - But his not the answer - he is a huge handicap on the offensive end of the floor. - Just like some many said last year when he was in - it allows the other team to double on other players. - -were playing 4-5 when he is on the floor on the offensive end

    Hell I don’t how many times I was sticking up for Marcus last year , no man do even try to begin to say I don’t respect Marcus. - On the DEFENSIVE END Marcus is the best defensive player we got. - Offensively - - ummm not so much



  • @jayballer73 I think you’re forgetting that before Garrett’s high ankle sprain, the light finally came on for him offensively and he was aggressive with ball. Even after coming back from that injury when he was playing at 60-65%, he was still very efficient from the floor in most games. Only ISU in B12 title game could be considered a bad shooting day for him.

    I don’t think you’re giving Garrett the credit he deserves for adapting to teams sagging him and him still finding ways to score that weren’t launching 3’s (even still, he is 35% from 3 in B12 play in his career). Garrett is probably the 4th or 5th scoring option, but he’ll still have some games where he goes off for 20+ next season while averaging 7-9 ppg this season.



  • Texas Hawk 10 said:

    @jayballer73 I think you’re forgetting that before Garrett’s high ankle sprain, the light finally came on for him offensively and he was aggressive with ball. Even after coming back from that injury when he was playing at 60-65%, he was still very efficient from the floor in most games. Only ISU in B12 title game could be considered a bad shooting day for him.

    I don’t think you’re giving Garrett the credit he deserves for adapting to teams sagging him and him still finding ways to score that weren’t launching 3’s (even still, he is 35% from 3 in B12 play in his career). Garrett is probably the 4th or 5th scoring option, but he’ll still have some games where he goes off for 20+ next season while averaging 7-9 ppg this season.

    beginning to look like this will be a mute point anyways. - -if this plays out which it is starting to look more and more it very well could. - - We will have Wilson OR Moss one or the other even quite possibly both and won’t have to rely on Marcus for his offense, can’t replace him on the defensive end - but offensively na - -not so much.

    Ya’ll think I’m a Garrett basher - -psssssst please I truly like Marcus from basher - but just clear not the answer for our shortcomings on the offensive end - and sure isn’t the one that would give us a legit reason to be put as a pre season # 3 ranking. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @jayballer73 Nobody is accusing you of bashing Garrett. You’re also sounding like you think Garrett has to average 15 a game and be a focal point on offense to make up for his offensive short comings and nobody is suggesting that either.

    Even if KU lands Moss and/or Wilson, Marcus will be a starter for KU next season and average 25-30 mpg while averaging somewhere around 7-9 ppg. An uptick in his shooting, more than possible considering he is a career 35% 3 point shooter in B12 games, means teams can’t ignore him on the outside. Even when teams where, he was still driving on teams even they were sagging and being very successful with that.

    Marcus Garrett will never be an elite offensive player and I haven’t seen anyone suggest that, but his shooting numbers suggest he is nowhere near the liability on offense that you are claiming him to be.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 Agree. Garrett doesn’t need to score to be a very important part of next year’s team.



  • Texas Hawk 10 said:

    @jayballer73 Nobody is accusing you of bashing Garrett. You’re also sounding like you think Garrett has to average 15 a game and be a focal point on offense to make up for his offensive short comings and nobody is suggesting that either.

    Even if KU lands Moss and/or Wilson, Marcus will be a starter for KU next season and average 25-30 mpg while averaging somewhere around 7-9 ppg. An uptick in his shooting, more than possible considering he is a career 35% 3 point shooter in B12 games, means teams can’t ignore him on the outside. Even when teams where, he was still driving on teams even they were sagging and being very successful with that.

    Marcus Garrett will never be an elite offensive player and I haven’t seen anyone suggest that, but his shooting numbers suggest he is nowhere near the liability on offense that you are claiming him to be.

    Man I sure the hell don’t know where your getting that I think he has to be a 15 ppg player - -that’s just down right laughable wow where you get that from. - Bottom line is if you don’t think he is a liability you need to go back and see some of those crazy ass shots from last season - let me say this one more time - -he is for sure beyond a shadow of a doubt a liability on the offensive end - -end of story. it is useless to continue this - - - -this is what I hate with some of these topics - we just continue to go back and forth - - back and forth - -and we get nowhere. - -your not going to change my opinion & I’m not going to change yours so it’s time to just go to the next one - it’s ok to have your opinion but some seem it’s NOT ok for me and others to have ours - -what the hell is up with that? - -just let it go and go to the next topic - obvious nothing is going to change here.

    Many Many people feel the same as I do on this - -many feel the way you do – face it Marcus is just not a shooter never will be. - Marcus IS a defensive specialist. - you think he was making people pay last year scoring ummm ya ok - -your going to see even more of teams sagging off of him - -like was mentioned by Elite - - some of his three point makes last year could of swore he was gonna shatter the back board - - ugly - - ugly - -shot - stil wouldn’t trade the kid love him on the defensive end. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • It’s hard to rebound a Garrett miss because the paint is packed with defenders. He really must get better at shooting if he’s to stay on the floor more than 15mpg.



  • @HighEliteMajor I agree for the most part, I said he averaged less than 5 ppg before the second half of his junior season, not after. Also I’m not talking about outside shooting alone. Garrett isn’t as good of a shooter as them guys no question but they weren’t good shooters either. He is as good or better in just about every other facet of the game than them as a sophomore IMO.



  • @kjayhawks On his ppg, I looked at the last half of his junior season, on points scored. Regarding Releford, his PER was 17.4 for his career, 17.9 his sophomore season. Garrett is 12.3 for two season, 12.8 last season. But Garrett is a better rebounder by 1.2 per 40 min played, and .5 more on steals per 40. I couldn’t find RRob’s PER, and stats are hard to compare because RRob played point – thus assists/steals higher as a consequence. I think they all all/were excellent defenders. Good guys to compare.


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