February 15: Post-game Roundup - KU vs TCU
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
LAWRENCE — Fonda Ellis sent a text message to her son, Perry, just before Saturday’s tipoff.
“Go get another double-double,” it read.
##Tait: Final: Kansas 95, TCU 65##
With “I Dream of Jeanie” star Barbara Eden in the house, Kansas University forward Perry Ellis flashed a little magic of his own, exploding for a career-high 32 points during one of the best all-around efforts of his young KU career in leading Kansas to a 95-65 victory over visiting TCU.
Ellis had modest numbers in the first half, leading Kansas with 11 points on 5-of-7 shooting. But he exploded in the second half to put the finishing touches on his career day.
LAWRENCE — When the final three-pointer went down, Perry Ellis turned to jog back on defense and broke into a half smile. Except it wasn’t quite a smile, more like a half-grimace.
Ellis had just hit 30 points on the day — on his way to a career-high 32 — and No. 7 Kansas was rolling to a 95-65 victory over TCU on Saturday at Allen Fieldhouse. But Perry Ellis really doesn’t do smiles. At least he doesn’t do them well.
LAWRENCE — As Wayne Selden Jr. left the locker room, walking away from the line of fans waiting for team autographs, only one called out to Selden.
“Have a good night,” he said.
###Ward: KU defense ‘not great’ against TCU###
LAWRENCE — It had been more than two years since Bill Self and Brandon Rush saw one another, so when the former Kansas star walked into the locker room after Saturday’s rout of TCU, it was —more than anything, perhaps — simply a nice moment for the two to reconnect.
But it was Rush, after all, the lanky, 6-foot-6 forward Self considers the best defensive player he’s coached in his 11 seasons in Lawrence.
The reality of it was, TCU basketball coach Trent Johnson was not all that upset with his team after a 95-65 loss to No. 7 Kansas University on Saturday afternoon at Allen Fieldhouse.
Not that you’d know that from listening to a few of Johnson’s post-game soundbites following the loss.
LAWRENCE — Kansas guard Andrew White III scored for the first time since Nov. 28 on Saturday afternoon, putting in four points on 2-for-3 shooting in Kansas’ 95-65 victory over TCU at Allen Fieldhouse.
The 6-foot-6 sophomore, who has played a combined 13 minutes in Big 12 play, says the last few months have been difficult.
####ESPN Box Score####
####CJOnline Live Blog####
Wishawk last edited by Wishawk
I feel sorry for White and also proud of him for working really hard on what he wants to achieve. It’s been a difficult year for him and the numbers are against him, but I believe he will have a bright future whether at KU or somewhere else. Too bad there is strong possibility that he may get lost in the numbers again next year. But I hope he sticks around and take a red shirt next year. I love the kid.
@Wishawk I like the kid too. But I do hope he transfers … for his own sake. He deserves to go somewhere where he can make the most of the rest of his college career. As White said in the article, Self just has more confidence in other guys. White’s candor doesn’t indicate to me that he will be back.
If White stays, he’s putting his faith in coach Self, who has bypassed him for 4 freshmen (Wiggins, Selden, Frankamp, and Greene)? Now Oubre is coming in. If White places that faith and returns, he could be staring at wasting another season on the bench for guy that doesn’t have faith in him. If he redshirts, he’s rolling the dice that he rises in Self’s eyes. I wouldn’t do that if I were him.
I would say that a transfer is a near certainty.
I guess I would like him to stick around, too. But not if he’s going to be banished to the bench.
When Wiggins signed, I unfortunately pointed out that a transfer was the likely result – it was the price of signing Wiggins. If Wiggins hadn’t signed, White was the likely day one starter. Don’t know if he would have held that job. To pose my ever present question – If we don’t win the title, was Wiggins worth it? This is part of the consideration. On the flip side, if White can’t beat out Greene and Frankamp now, then is it really a tremendous loss? Still, I hate to see this develop.
It is the on-going war of attrition for scholarships. Part of the deal. Looks like White is the odd man out. Too bad.
icthawkfan316 last edited by
@HighEliteMajor Funny, I was just referencing your view of Wiggins & AW3 on REHawk’s post about Brannen Greene’s benching today.
I don’t know what it is about AW3 - but he never really seemed to be in Self’s good graces, in terms of garnering playing time anyway. Even last year when he demonstrated the ability to create mismatches by playing the stretch 4, we very rarely saw Self utilize him.
As far as whether Wiggins was worth it if we don’t win the title, I don’t know. I guess thinking of an ancillary benefit, if Wiggins one year here is viewed as a personal success on his part, then it could help us recruit the OAD done the road that is the final piece of the puzzle. The way many thought Xavier Henry was supposed to be the final piece to the '10 team’s championship aspirations. Up until now, I think you would have to classify our OAD experiments as unsuccessful. Selby was the #1 rivals recruit and was derailed by injuries & the suspension, and ended up falling out of the first round. Xavier Henry had a solid, but unspectacular one season as a Jayhawk. So having a OAD recruit come in and perform will probably make it easier for Self on the recruiting trail, as the Caliparis of the world won’t be able to point to our track record of not being able to utilize/develop players in a single season situation. And I think Wiggins has had a very good season. Not “maple Jordan/next Lebron” good, but that was unrealistic anyway. 16 ppg, 6 rpg, very good defender. Obviously his immense talent and still spacious talent ceiling leave us wanting more, but I don’t think anyone would call him a bust by any stretch.
I guess my belief has been that it is too hard to predict the make-up of one team to the next due to early defections (not just OADs), transfers, etc., and that given this you always take talent when it is available, because you don’t know when that level of talent will be available again. Also, we never know until we receive the gift of hindsight how things will play out. Brandon Rush was largely thought to be a OAD prospect, yet he decided to come back for his sophomore year, injuries led to him coming back his junior year, and because of that we have the '08 championship. If Self passes on Rush because of his presumed OAD status, we don’t win that championship. And Rush came into the program when we were just about as young as we are this year. So regardless of whether we win the title or not, I’m glad Self landed Wiggins.
(speaking of Rush, glad to see him there today, and always makes me smile hearing Self refer to him as the best defender we’ve had during his tenure).
Wishawk last edited by Wishawk
@HighEliteMajor Yes, I agree with you for his sake. But I just hate seeing a good kid, especially one who works hard and fits every bit in the Jayhawks family ends up going somewhere else to get playing time. White is exactly the type of players we love to see. It is unfortunate that it just happened his position got so crowded. I wish him the best whether staying or going somewhere else.
And on your question re. Wiggins, I’m never a big fan of proclaimed OADs. Never was a fan of Selby, nor Henry, but loved Rush. So far Wiggins has been a model citizen, but he never seemed to have the same attitude of Brandon. Now Ellis got 32. When are we going to see 40 out of Wiggins? He certainly has all the tools to do so. For me, I’d take White over Wiggins regardless what happens at the end of season. I’m more sentimental that way.
@icthawkfan316 / @Wishawk - Both you guys make too much sense on Wiggins. I know I’m in the clear minority (maybe the only one). While I’m a big believer in rankings, I can’t stand the high-talent, OAD drama – which would seem to run wildly counter to team chemistry. And OAD drama is the worst. But I think that has been handled well here so far. Self does a good job with that, so I’m pleasantly surprised. So I don’t have any real gripes there. I also see how guys develop, and how playing time irons out the kinks. Guys who will be here next season have lost PT due to Wiggins. But I’m heartened by Greene’s progress and his handling since Christmas. Self gave him a defined role and he took to it.
Most likely, Wiggins does increase our chances to win the title this year. His style of play is not my favorite. I wonder if he’s the kind of guy that will step up with the season on the line. The Florida performance late made me think he does have it in him. But we won’t know till we get there.
But it would have been interesting to see how all this would have played out if Wiggins had chosen FSU, wouldn’t it? Would we be 19-6?
The team dynamic is a real interesting thing. Guys get hurt, other guys step up. Scorers are lost, and a guy you wouldn’t expect steps in and is, well, Tom Brady. Coaches form opinions on players but their in-game performance exceeds the expectations. Guys get playing time and they show what they can do. Removing a superstar type can make a team better. It’s because the pieces fit better, and work better together.
When I see Wiggins’ drives and never a pass, I think about the pieces fitting. If we notice his lack of passing, don’t you think his teammates do? Would this team be better as a final product if Wiggins would have never came to KU?
It is such an interesting question to me, one that I will never be able to definitively answer. But I don’t think the best team is formed by simply trying to get the best players. The pieces have to fit. Look at the make up on our team now – how could a vocal leader, a fiery competitor, help this team?
But I am still contemplating the OAD stuff. Still wishy-washy. Feeling peer pressure. Oddly, the improvement of Lucas and Traylor makes me more likely to be ok with OADs like Alexander. I was very concerned with the quality of our post depth moving forward. I really enjoy Lucas’ play in particular … it’s like a Christmas present. Alexander, though, is a “need” OAD, given Embiid’s likely departure. I’ve always viewed Wiggins as a “luxury” OAD. We didn’t have a hole to fill. We had extremely talented players ready to play.
Wishawk last edited by
@HighEliteMajor Second that!
Removing a superstar type can make a team better. It’s because the pieces fit better, and work better together.
A good team is greater than the collection of its parts. We all saw White’s improvement from last season. Though he may never be the player Wiggins is, I’m not sure the team will have a worse record than it has now. Looking back at all of Coach Self’s teams, not many of them were star studded like 2008, but they all performed well. And one of the big enjoyment was watching the players grow from freshmen to seniors.
icthawkfan316 last edited by icthawkfan316
@HighEliteMajor I guess I don’t have as big of a gripe about Wiggins driving yet not passing because I don’t view that as his role. Now it would be great to have in his arsenal for sure, but I look at our junior point guard rarely drive looking to pass and that concerns me more. Also, I remember Xavier Henry and the biggest complaint on him was that he settled for too many jump shots and was protecting his body by not driving into the lane. I look at Wiggins, who is not yet in a “man’s body” so to speak, yet he drives in there with no abandon. To me, if I was his teammate, that is what I would notice. That he is not so concerned about himself that he is afraid to drive and doesn’t shy away from contact. Now he still probably takes a few too many jump shots, but I can live with them. I mean, the Florida performance that made you believe he has it in him to step up was built largely off of jump shots he made.
It’s ironic that you ask how a vocal leader could help this team and how the pieces need to fit, given that it’s been reported that Wiggins came to KU in part because he believed his personality meshed well with Selden & Embiid who he had met in some of the all-star games and such. I do agree that the pieces need to fit. We see that time & time again in sports. But it’s not like we bypassed a vocal leader and choose Wiggins instead. We’d have the same team we have now, minus Wiggins.
Also, I see you view Embiid’s departure as “likely”. Not buying into all the hope that’s been abounding lately about him possibly coming back?
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
I’m glad we have wiggins! He didn’t ask for any drama. He plays w/in the team concept. He had 4 assists today. He’s our best defender. I wish he was here for 4 years too. AW3 has been playing behind Greene anyway. I trust Self!
I think we are better with Wiggins. I don’t think our record would be as good. I don’t think whomever played in his place would have been as productive or, as Crimson points out, would have played nearly as good defense. Certainly someone else (Greene/) would have developed more. I, also, view Embiid’s departure as likely. I think he will want to stay…but won’t be able to turn down being possibly the number 1 pick.
KSU’s loss to Baylor now means that Texas is the only team with a plausible chance of unseating us as Big 12 Champs. But, they still have to play at ISU, at OU, and of course come to AFH. If we beat OU and Texas at home (and if we can’t do that we deserve whatever happens), we would have to lose all 3 road games and have Texas win 1 of either OU or ISU to tie us. Which I can see happening. That is why Tuesday’s game at Tech is important. And as I said before, in earlier posts I think some of us are taking them too lightly. Have you seen their conference scores? They have been in every game and are tough at home.
imajayhawk last edited by
I, for one, have been thrilled having Wiggins as part of the family. He appears to be a team player, represent Kansas with integrity. We all have to remember he is only 18 and should still be in high school.
I think Wiggins is unfairly getting a rep on this board for “never” passing. Looking at the players on this team, once the decision is made to drive into the lane, who has the best potential to score. Wiggins. He is so athletic, he is just trying to perfect his finishes at this level. He will go through this again in the League. But, I feel that the ONLY person who can stop Wiggins from finishing the play on a drive is Wiggins. We need him to continue to perfect his craft quickly for us to go deep in the tournament.
There are many time Wiggins gets the ball on the wing, and he passes. I think he really tries to involve his teammates. But once he drives, I want him to finish, not pass.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@imajayhawk so does self!
@imajayhawk “But once he drives, I want him to finish, not pass”
Right, I’d like him to finish. But his “finish” rate is well below 50%. In a recent game, Wiggins drove from the wing, the backside post defender came to help, and Black was standing alone on the far block. Wiggins tried to dart between defenders and lost the ball. Could have easily passed to Black.
Just one of many examples.
I want Wiggins to score, too. But asking this stellar athlete to simply dish to an open man created by help defense is not a lot to ask. It’s routine, really.
To demonstrate the absurdity here, can anyone even remember just one time when Wiggins drove to the hoop and dished to an open man? Just one? And how many times has a defense collapsed on Wiggins as he drove? Most every time, right?
Again, this isn’t asking a lot. On a defensively challenged team, any opportunity to increase scoring should be welcomed I would think.
If I’m an opposing coach, prepping my team, do I fear Wiggins dishing to an open man? Do I even concern myself with it? Or do I strategize to simply stop the drive? This logically makes Wiggins less effective on his drives (the more defenders that collapse and assist).
We can’t think of Wiggins’ drives in a vacuum. We have to consider the dynamic of the game, and opposing coaches, and how they approach defending Wiggins.
If Wiggins were to incorporate dishing the ball on occasion, it would have the effect in time of opposing coaches taking that into account, perhaps making help defenders hesitate, thus having the net effect of making his drives more successful.
All this talk about would we rather have Wiggins or not is crazy! Wiggins has added a lot to the program and his decision to come to Kansas will be felt on the recruiting trail for years to come. Also without Wiggins this year we would definitely not be the team we are today with what I believe is the most talent and upside in the nation. I like AW3 also but there is no comparison, you cannot duplicate talent. And from everything I have seen Wiggins is a team first guy who plays within the system. Look at Kentucky and there freshmen…we could have done a lot worse than Wiggins.
joeloveshawks last edited by
@Kapone2323 I agree that Wiggins was a great get for us and that he will help us compete for a title this year and will help with future recruiting once he becomes a stud in the NBA.
Wiggins could finish better and he could pass more, no question. The thing he does best is plays tough D. If the rest of our team played D like Wiggs we would probably be looking at 1 or 2 losses instead of 6. Our D will be what makes the difference in March.