Mason and Graham vs Mario and Russ
@jaybate-1-0 This thread is inspired by you after you mentioned you would pick Mario and Russ over Frank and Dtae. I’m assuming you meant in terms of lead guards on a five man team. But for this topic lets think about what would potentially happen if the four of them would play a two on two game.
Mario and Russ. Junior and Senior respectively. Mario 6’1" I think and Russ 6’2" I think. Mario would be the 2, Russ - PG
Frank and Graham. Senior and Junior respectively. Frank 5’10" DG 6’1" Frank - PG, Graham - 2.
Experience - draw height/length - Mario and Russ 3pt shooting - Frank and DG 2pt shooting- Frank and DG FT’s- Mario and Russ Ball handling- draw Defense - draw but this is a tough one for me to quantify. I mean, size and length obviously go to Russ and Mario. quickness and tenacity on defense I think is pretty damm close between them. Frank loses a bit because of his height but who here thinks that would stop him from locking down Mario or Russ? not me
This is such a hard thing for me to do. Mario and Russ are obviously tough. They won a national title together and Both of them led the team in steals and assists if I remember right. Frank and Graham I think have an edge in that they can both produce offensively when Russ was mostly relied on for his defense and ball handling, running the point.
2 vs 2 I take DG & Mason.
Title Run, I take Mario & RussRob. They’ve proved it. Makes it a pretty easy decision for me.
I’d take Frank and Mario.
Mario 2.5 steals per game. Russel 2.0 steals per game. Devonte and Mason 2.8 per game combined.
I don’t remember nearly as many blow-bys, but that could be because their was actually a post presence in '08 to clean it up.
I like both tandems, but only one brought home a NC. So the decision is pretty easy for me as to which was better for KU. Head to head is a harder call. Mario and Frank both have the heart of champions. I’d take Russel over Devonte at this point just due to the defensive synergy he had with Mario. Those guys wreaked havoc and created their own good fortune.
I’ll also add that Mario and Russell had Sherron in the mix, as well. I viewed Russell’s biggest attribute to be his defense. In ranking all the players, I’d go 1) Frank, 2) Sherron, 3) Mario, 4) Russell, 5) Devonte – but Devonte is the only one with another season of eligibility and the margins are slim. Could you imagine Frank and Sherron together? Geez.
I posted this on the other thread before I saw you created this thread. I think it will clear up this issue. I did not say what you apparently thought I said.
@JAYBATE-1.0 I’D TAKE MARIO AND RUSROB OVER MASON AND GRAHAM ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
Chalmers and RR were the greatest defensive tandem at 1 and 2 I have seen at KU. Period.
But Frank and Devonte now go down in my book as the greatest offensive tandem at 1 and 2 that KU ever had. Period.
In the past, I have never chosen against Chalmers and RR, or Rush, or the 2008 team, because they won a ring and rings were once the ultimate currency for me.
But now rings appear a fiat currency, like Fed Note Dollars. Ring winners since 2008 appear to be entertainment value engineered in an entertainment value engineered March Carney. I know many do not agree with me, but that’s increasingly how it appears to me.
So: I have to compare guys without the gold standard that rings once appeared to be.
Under this criteria, Chalmers and RR–supreme defensive tandem–are in a tie with Frank and Devonte–the supreme offensive tandem.
And if I were forced to pick one pair over the other?
Well, Frank and Devonte have done what they have done without playing on a team (this season, or last season) that had any kind of a dominant inside game. Thus, their accomplishments exceed in my mind even what the great Chalmers and RR tandem achieved. Think about it. Chalmers and RR were able to play the kind of defense they played because they FOUR future NBA draft choices for bigs inside. FOUR!
By comparison, Frank and Devonte have been doing what they do on both sides of the ball without a single draft choice big the last two seasons. Thus, we might even argue that Frank and Devonte might have played vastly better defense than they did had they had FOUR future NBA draft choices backing them up on defense so they could really bird dog opponents.
And on the offensive side of the ball, well, Frank and Devonte are just flat better as a tandem than Chalmers and RR, and Frank and Devonte never had the luxury of a backup of the quality of Sherron Collins EITHER!!!
Hope this helps. .
@jaybate-1.0 You make the '08 team sound way better than any team recently. You’re not wrong. That’s why I’ve been so impressed with the job Bill has done masking defeciencies recently. Since the Morri left KU hasn’t fielded a complete team.
IF Preston and Udoka live up to their potiental AND Newman slips in seemlessly then this upcoming season will be the most complete team we’ve seen in quite some time. However, I’m having a hard time not viewing it as a depleted version of this years team with Frank and Josh gone. Malik and Billy have freakin’ huge shoes to fill.
Yes, replacing a national player of the year at point guard AND an OAD 3/4 that was a truly gifted and deserving player to jump to the NBA is a tall order for a coach that does not appear to be allowed to sign OAD 1s and 5s, or even 5-star 1s and 5s.
But Self is a genius and he keeps finding cracks in the apparent regime.
Billy Preston really excites me as far as physical gifts go. But I fret about his adaptation to the D1 violence and intensity. There just are not too many guys with the ferocity and resilience of Josh Jackson.
But there are a few.
If Preston were one, I would be incredibly bullish about this coming season.
@HighEliteMajor I think I’d prefer Frank and Mario over Frank and Sherron. Mario was a killer. I think he goes for 16 against Oregon and steals a couple passes.
I think Frank turned a corner that Sherron never did of not making ill advised drives. Maybe my memories are skewed, but I remember getting a lot more frustrated at Sherron. Whereas I don’t remember getting irritated at Mario’s decision making, he always seemed to be in the right place and make the right decision.
@approxinfinity That’s my Sherron recollection also.
@dylans I think you have it nailed. A complete team. I would definitely like for us to sign another big, but we are real close to having another top 3 team.