I’m not saying those numbers are right or wrong because it’s hard to say how properly expenses are allocated. However, KU generates big time bucks and donations off of basketball. I’d bet 80% of KU’s donations are basketball centric (if not more). I’d hate to guess how much KU would lose financially if we couldn’t accommodate the larger donors. KU’s very top heavy in donations and you probably want to find a way to get every donor $5000 and up in the building. And depending upon what percentage of seats they can use (students have to get some), I don’t think they can do that unless they cut the number of seats each account can buy. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision on that stuff because it certainly won’t be easy and when the finances of the entire department are dependent upon basketball. Yikes.

I can’t remember all the particulars of KU in the FBI trial and what was actually admitted as evidence and what was hearsay that a reporter printed, but didn’t actually make it into the trial. However, KU seems to be one of the few schools that didn’t have any coaches actually paying the players. Wasn’t one of Arizona’s assistants paying players out of his own pocket?

I think it’s a good thing Preston’s Mom is on wire tap saying that KU couldn’t find and Gassnola under oath said Self/KU didn’t know. The innuendo about KU coaches on wire taps, who knows? We didn’t have the full context of what was being said and even some of the things typed, Self didn’t respond. All the NCAA may really have to go on is that KU should have known. But if you take Bray’s comments, communications with shoe reps is common place (no surprise). It’ll be interesting what comes out on Zion, where his parents were living, etc. If any of those details come out, KU won’t look so bad. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in knowing KU’s strategy because as bad as it looks (and as bad as the penalties may be), I think KU has a chance to come out of this okay.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I think you have to accept the kids were paid; that seems to be admitted pretty clearly in court and that’s not being disputed. My question was more were they paid to attend KU? My perception of the shoe company game is the shoe companies are funneling money to players (or their handlers) and then for them to choose one of their brand’s schools. Was there any requirement Preston and DeSousa choose KU especially when you have handlers involved? Or could they have chosen any Adidas school? I’m not familiar with the particulars of NCAA rules, but I think there’s a difference. Are KU’s coaches coordinating with Adidas reps to steer players to KU? I think if you look at what the courts decided, the answer is clearly no. I think each of the defendants walk if they believed the evidence pointed toward KU coaches and other schools coordinating with them. At that point, it’s difficult to prove the defendants defrauded the schools.

So if the evidence proves that KU’s coaches were coordinating, then I think KU would and should get hammered, but there’s not that kind of evidence. Is there any evidence that KU’s coaches told Gassnola or whoever to send $2500 to DeSousa’s handler? I don’t think so. The evidence against almost every other school was they had coaches involved in the money. KU did not. There’s a couple text messages or wire taps that don’t sound particularly great, but we don’t have the context of the entire conversation and either way, there’s no evidence that KU was involved in paying. Look at Townsend’s comment about Zion…how many coaches around the country do you think made a similar comment? Probably a lot. Virtually everyone wanted Zion. If KU ends up going the IARP route, I hope due to the backgrounds of those involved, a little higher standard is held than automatically believing conspiracy theories without hard evidence. The KU situation is clearly different than virtually every other school that’s been named.

The other thing that has to be considered is how KU handled each situation when allegations arose. Preston never played. DeSousa sat until he was declared eligible. KU never thumbed their nose at the NCAA like Arizona and Ayton, Memphis and Wiseman, etc. Unless you just have a vendetta against KU, KU clearly isn’t a renegade program.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021 Recruiting:

@Marco said in 2021 Recruiting:

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021 Recruiting:

@BShark said in 2021 Recruiting:

@FarmerJayhawk does not look winnable

It looks like, as @jayballer73 astutely pointed out in the 22 thread, we’re going after a different type of guy these days. I think Bill saw what he had last year and was like OH. This could be fun.

And with OAD all but officially over with the new G League contracts it makes sense. We’ll still get our Bryce Thompson’s and others, but as far as top 10 recruits go I say steer clear. Build the bench and solidify the starting 5 with KC players and the occasional Wichita recruit, as well as adding nationwide ones such as Frank and Devonte (Gethro fitting that mold for next season).

There’s not enough local talent to keep KU competitive at a national level. KU would have to land every local player to have any chance at being competitive which isn’t going to happen as long as MoKan is the dominant AAU team in the area.

KU lands a local talent every other year on average with varying degrees of success.

KU is a national brand in basketball and with the new rules on players selling themselves, KU needs to market the exposure a potential recruit can get at KU to land top players.

Why do you say Mokan being the dominant AAU team in KC is a detriment to KU? KU has 3 Mokan players now. Do you know of any high profile players at Mokan now that we are/should be recruiting?

@Texas-Hawk-10 No I wasn’t saying that you said the kids weren’t paid. I was just saying that’s not in dispute I don’t think? KU isn’t disputing that, right? I think we concede that it was admitted in a court of law, under oath, they were paid.

In general, I would trust your opinion on this case far more than mine. I haven’t read the NOA or KU’s response and am not familiar with the minutia of NCAA rules - all of which will matter greatly in this case. I’m trying to pick through people’s arguments and figure out how KU might get out of this without getting hammered.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in T-Mobile Center taking over for Sprint Center in downtown KCMO:

@hawkfan01 said in T-Mobile Center taking over for Sprint Center in downtown KCMO:

@Texas-Hawk-10

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in T-Mobile Center taking over for Sprint Center in downtown KCMO:

@Kcmatt7 said in T-Mobile Center taking over for Sprint Center in downtown KCMO:

Realistically, does Sprint Center actuall make money for KC? Factoring in maintenance and operating costs, it seems like Sprint Center should operate in the red for the city due to the lack of a professional team (NBA/NHL) calling the building home.

I don’t know about currently, but for a long time, the Sprint Center did make money for KC. It was actually wildly profitable for AEG so the profit sharing agreement kicked in (I think anything above 15% kicked into a profit split). Sprint Center at one time was somewhere around one of the 10 busiest arenas in the world. Not having a pro sports team was a good thing. All the suite and club suite revenue went to the building operator versus if we had a pro team, they would have gotten all the money. Plus, without a pro team taking all the plum dates, KC gets all these concerts and other events that used to pass us by. I don’t know this, but I actually think the former President of AEG (Tim Leiweke) used KC as his model case for his current business where he’s literally building (primarily) concert arenas.

Pro teams don’t take dates away from major concert tours. Most arena tours are booked far enough in advance to be able to promote the shows that it’s usually the NBA and NHL that have to schedule around those shows.

Yeah, I don’t know. That’s just what they said on why the Sprint Center was able to rank so much higher as an arena than KC’s market size. When you have the 4th busiest arena in the U.S. and KC is somewhere between 30-32 as size of market, there has to be some reason the arena is doing so well and I would think being wide open calendar wise would help.

[link text](https://www.sprintcenter.com/news/detail/sprint-center-maintains-ranking-as-americas-fourth-busiest-arena[link text](link url))

@justanotherfan Big 10 has been #1 in money for a while and they get to redo their TV deals in like 3 years. SEC is getting a big pay day for their game of the week so it’s not like they’re hurting, and perhaps they will pass the Big 10 eventually.

@Texas-Hawk-10

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in T-Mobile Center taking over for Sprint Center in downtown KCMO:

@Kcmatt7 said in T-Mobile Center taking over for Sprint Center in downtown KCMO:

Realistically, does Sprint Center actuall make money for KC? Factoring in maintenance and operating costs, it seems like Sprint Center should operate in the red for the city due to the lack of a professional team (NBA/NHL) calling the building home.

I don’t know about currently, but for a long time, the Sprint Center did make money for KC. It was actually wildly profitable for AEG so the profit sharing agreement kicked in (I think anything above 15% kicked into a profit split). Sprint Center at one time was somewhere around one of the 10 busiest arenas in the world. Not having a pro sports team was a good thing. All the suite and club suite revenue went to the building operator versus if we had a pro team, they would have gotten all the money. Plus, without a pro team taking all the plum dates, KC gets all these concerts and other events that used to pass us by. I don’t know this, but I actually think the former President of AEG (Tim Leiweke) used KC as his model case for his current business where he’s literally building (primarily) concert arenas.

I don’t expect Les to be at KU that long. I think he gets us back to respectability and then we try to hand it off to someone like Dearmon and keep a lot of the staff intact. Of course, if Les becomes okay with mostly being a figurehead and letting the staff run most things, he could stay longer than I think.

@stoptheflop Really, Colorado has done well? I thought they had mostly sucked in the PAC with only like one good season. They’re behind big time financially than had they stayed in the Big 12. That’s one school I don’t think has improved their lot at all (unless you’re going to judge their Big 12 tenure by how badly they sucked at the end).

I would say no regrets for A&M (they were mediocre in the Big 12). I think Nebraska has moved on, but miss some of their Big 12 brethren. I think they’d love to see KU in the Big 10. Mizzou is pretty much irrelevant and has continued to recruit at the bottom of the SEC, which is never a great strategy if you want to compete to be at the top of your league. Their best couple of seasons in the SEC has been with their Big 12 players. Since their Big 12 players left, they’ve finished 1-7, 2-6, 4-4, 4-4, 4-4, and 3-5 in the SEC and they get to play Vandy, Arkansas, Kentucky, and South Carolina every year. Plus Tennessee has sucked most of that period of time. Mizzou went 1-5 against the SEC East last year so had they not played the worst in the West, they probably would have been 1-7 in the league. Mizzou will never admit they made a mistake leaving the Big 12, but it’s hard to see a path back to winning the East with Georgia and Florida back to being national powers and Tennessee looking like they might be a contender in future years. Right now, it looks like Mizzou is playing for 3rd or 4th place in the East on an annual basis. Of course, had they landed in the West, they could play for 4th or 5th place in a good year.

I’m not saying those numbers are right or wrong because it’s hard to say how properly expenses are allocated. However, KU generates big time bucks and donations off of basketball. I’d bet 80% of KU’s donations are basketball centric (if not more). I’d hate to guess how much KU would lose financially if we couldn’t accommodate the larger donors. KU’s very top heavy in donations and you probably want to find a way to get every donor $5000 and up in the building. And depending upon what percentage of seats they can use (students have to get some), I don’t think they can do that unless they cut the number of seats each account can buy. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision on that stuff because it certainly won’t be easy and when the finances of the entire department are dependent upon basketball. Yikes.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NOA response from KU discussion:

For anyone out there who doubts KU is guilty of anything here, part of KU’s response to the NCAA, "Regarding the men’s basketball allegations, very few facts are in dispute. The institution does not dispute that Adidas and its employee and consultant provided at least $100,000 to the families of three men’s basketball prospective student-athletes the institution was recruiting. (Head coach Bill Self and assistant coach Kurtis Townsend) also do not dispute many of the facts related to Adidas and its representatives having contact with prospects and that they regularly communicated with Adidas representatives about their recruitment of prospects. …

“However, where the parties diverge from the NCAA enforcement staff is on the key issue of responsibility. The institution, Self and Townsend have accepted no responsibility for this conduct.”

This thing is going to the IARP to determine the application of NCAA bylaw 13.02.15.

I think I like that strategy. How many schools do we think benefited from Gassnola’s work? Maybe this is like UNC’s academic fraud in that if it’s available to other schools, KU wasn’t unfairly advantaged…lol

@Texas-Hawk-10 No I wasn’t saying that you said the kids weren’t paid. I was just saying that’s not in dispute I don’t think? KU isn’t disputing that, right? I think we concede that it was admitted in a court of law, under oath, they were paid.

In general, I would trust your opinion on this case far more than mine. I haven’t read the NOA or KU’s response and am not familiar with the minutia of NCAA rules - all of which will matter greatly in this case. I’m trying to pick through people’s arguments and figure out how KU might get out of this without getting hammered.

@BeddieKU23 “They clearly think KU did rub this in the NCAA’s face. Their latest response sure made it sound personal in regards to the Late Night fiasco.”

But did KU? I thought I had seen somewhere that the particular video of Self in the Adidas shirt was recorded weeks in advance (before KU was even charged by the NCAA). The optics looked bad and probably a bad decision on the marketing department, but I don’t think KU read the allegations from the NCAA and then said, hey guys, “I have a great idea. Let’s put Self in an Adidas shirt with gold dollar sign chains on it and go film a promo video for Late Night.”

@Texas-Hawk-10 I think you have to accept the kids were paid; that seems to be admitted pretty clearly in court and that’s not being disputed. My question was more were they paid to attend KU? My perception of the shoe company game is the shoe companies are funneling money to players (or their handlers) and then for them to choose one of their brand’s schools. Was there any requirement Preston and DeSousa choose KU especially when you have handlers involved? Or could they have chosen any Adidas school? I’m not familiar with the particulars of NCAA rules, but I think there’s a difference. Are KU’s coaches coordinating with Adidas reps to steer players to KU? I think if you look at what the courts decided, the answer is clearly no. I think each of the defendants walk if they believed the evidence pointed toward KU coaches and other schools coordinating with them. At that point, it’s difficult to prove the defendants defrauded the schools.

So if the evidence proves that KU’s coaches were coordinating, then I think KU would and should get hammered, but there’s not that kind of evidence. Is there any evidence that KU’s coaches told Gassnola or whoever to send $2500 to DeSousa’s handler? I don’t think so. The evidence against almost every other school was they had coaches involved in the money. KU did not. There’s a couple text messages or wire taps that don’t sound particularly great, but we don’t have the context of the entire conversation and either way, there’s no evidence that KU was involved in paying. Look at Townsend’s comment about Zion…how many coaches around the country do you think made a similar comment? Probably a lot. Virtually everyone wanted Zion. If KU ends up going the IARP route, I hope due to the backgrounds of those involved, a little higher standard is held than automatically believing conspiracy theories without hard evidence. The KU situation is clearly different than virtually every other school that’s been named.

The other thing that has to be considered is how KU handled each situation when allegations arose. Preston never played. DeSousa sat until he was declared eligible. KU never thumbed their nose at the NCAA like Arizona and Ayton, Memphis and Wiseman, etc. Unless you just have a vendetta against KU, KU clearly isn’t a renegade program.