This is getting tiring.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    Lowest points KU scored ALL SEASON last night.



  • I would take Self over Izzo.

    Self is 8 years younger.



  • Besides, if Izzy was our coach ya’ll would be doing the same damn thing with him…

    “Seven final fours and 1 championship isn’t enough–he just can’t get over the hump”



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 Are we talking about the Izzo that hasn’t won a title since 2000? 7 final fours in 18 years? Once again, Final Fours are great, if it leads to a National Championship. I’ll take my chances with Self.



  • @Blown

    Anyone that thinks recruiting hits rough patches for KU now would LOSE THEIR MIND with Izzo.



  • @BShark And only 59 points last year in the EE. That is the problem. We go from averaging over 90 down to scoring 60. The Dux D is good, but not that good. We just looked flat all night and it only takes one flat game to send you home.



  • @BShark

    Agree bu it does sometimes feel like Duke, UK, and UNC to some extent get their choices and then the rest are fighting for scraps.



  • I remember in 2003 when Roy missed all those free throws. That was annoying, too.



  • @BigBad thats because they do. But Josh Jackson and Wiggins & the like are pretty decent scraps. We just don’t get 2-3 of them every year. Our lack of a skilled scorer inside last night was a huge hole. You can blame that on Braggs lack of development.



  • @BigBad

    Duke always closes their leans it seems. Team USA thing helps a lot and K is a “living legend”. Lately UK misses a fair bit, if you look at the final classes for them they aren’t bad because they need a ton of guys every year but 2015 in particular UK missed on a lot of their first choices. Self seems to have good and bad spurts in recruiting. Diallo and now Bragg struggling has hurt a lot. Now with Bragg it’s very clear that he just isn’t as good as his HS hype, but it still hurts in recruiting. Fortunately Josh was fantastic this year and I hope Preston and Doke tear it up next year. We have seen what having unathletic bigs looks like and it’s not pretty.

    @Big-Clyde52 said:

    @BShark And only 59 points last year in the EE. That is the problem. We go from averaging over 90 down to scoring 60. The Dux D is good, but not that good. We just looked flat all night and it only takes one flat game to send you home.

    Agree. It’s a very negative trend and denying it at this point seems crazy. For whatever reason, Self’s teams play tight in EE games. Even in the wins.

    @Blown said:

    I remember in 2003 when Roy missed all those free throws. That was annoying, too.

    Not the same thing we are talking about now 7 games for Self at KU where the team has played tight. Players do pick up on things from their coach. There are still very few coaches I would trade Self for though.



  • @Blown

    I was so, so wrong about Bragg. 😦



  • @BShark How can you tell if coach was tight or not? Is it simply a direct correlation you draw between poor shooting?



  • @Blown

    Self has openly commented about how hard elite eight games are. And the players have been tight you could really say in every EE game. In 2012 KU bullied a UNC team missing their PG, in 2008 they escaped Davidson in an otherwise great tournament that ended fantastically.



  • @Eric-san So Izzo has the same number of titles as Self and 4 times the Final Four appearances which means four times better chances to win a title.



  • @Blown Self reverted to form last night. Stopped subbing and quit making adjustments in the second half. Vick played reasonably well in the first half and actually scored. Why wasn’t he playing over Graham in the 2nd half who couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat last night? Why wasn’t he telling Mason, Jackson, amd Graham to drive the ball and get to FT line since the 3’s weren’t falling?

    Self’s butt was than the security at Ft. Knox last night just like it has been in every Elite 8 game.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 Yea Izzo had 4 more chances at the title, but does chances equal winning? He hasn’t won a title in those 4 trips anyway, so does it really matter that Izzo made it to the Final 4?



  • Everyone needs a day to process the loss. Nothing productive ever comes from bagging on things when the loss is so fresh. I’m just as guilty of it as the next person on here.

    It sucks we lost especially how we played to get to this point. And the guys just didn’t respond how we hoped or wanted them too.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 I agree on the driving. I said at about the 6-7 minute mark that they needed to start driving every play. I don’t know why they didn’t other than the fact that Bell completely owned the paint blocked everything in sight without even getting 2 fouls called on him all game. 8 blocks. That’s big time.

    As far as everything else goes: there is no explanation for the missed shots. Many were wide open looks and we just bricked them.

    Part of the tightness could be attributed to 4 of the five starters experiencing last years elite 8 loss.

    A big ‘what if’ I will always wonder is how much losing Josh 2 minutes into the game impacted the overall mentality. That second foul was bullsh**



  • It’s all about the ride to the end, and no other school or team has a better ride during the season than KU does on a regular basis. It is just as important to enjoy the whole season as a fan, as opposed to the last 3 weeks of a single round elimination tournament, where the best team doesn’t always win.



  • Matt Tait said we were loose as always in warmups. Perhaps we all tightened up when josh got his 2nd foul w/17 plus left? Completely changed the game. I think we were only 1 down when he came back in which speaks well for Vick. But josh was not the same! Oregon was our perfect storm no matter which game it was. Completely exposed our loss of Doke. Dg had an off pm. Oregon looked really good.



  • @BeddieKU23 said:

    Everyone needs a day to process the loss. Nothing productive ever comes from bagging on things when the loss is so fresh. I’m just as guilty of it as the next person on here.

    It sucks we lost especially how we played to get to this point. And the guys just didn’t respond how we hoped or wanted them too.

    Well said. This board has been really great in comparison to the drivel on 247 and phog though.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Losing JJ that early probably reminded the team of the TCU game and started panicking. As pressure started building, emotions started taking over.



  • I was actually shocked to see JJ come back in with 10 minutes left. I thought Vick played just fine up to that point. And because JJ had to be careful of picking up a 3rd, he started to think instead of reacting. In hindsight would have been better to just sit JJ to the half, let him gain composure, and refocus to begin the 2nd half.



  • @Eric-san said:

    I was actually shocked to see JJ come back in with 10 minutes left. I thought Vick played just fine up to that point. And because JJ had to be careful of picking up a 3rd, he started to think instead of reacting. In hindsight would have been better to just sit JJ to the half, let him gain composure, and refocus to begin the 2nd half.

    Agree here and think that a close game at half telling the team Josh didnt even play would build confidence. However its a gamble. Self probably saw how Oregon’s best athlete Bell was controlling things and how Mason was our only option. He knew we needed our best athlete to stay close.



  • @BigBad I wonder why Vegas had us as 7 point favorites. It is amazing we even had a .500 record with the way you describe our players. The 5’10" guy happened to be the NPOY. Our record in EE games is now 2-5. That wasn’t a relaxed team I saw out there- that was a jazzed up team that played scared. Nice job picking out what you feel is a sleight in my post. Sounds like you want to pick a fight. Welcome to the board, btw.



  • @Eric-san said:

    I was actually shocked to see JJ come back in with 10 minutes left. I thought Vick played just fine up to that point.

    I thought so, too, but then it occurred to me that Vick usually subs when someone needs a rest. DC was in for Lucas, so Josh had to come in to give Svi and Vick a rest. And Svi did come back with some energy esp on defense.



  • @KUSTEVE said:

    @BigBad I wonder why Vegas had us as 7 point favorites. It is amazing we even had a .500 record with the way you describe our players. The 5’10" guy happened to be the NPOY. Our record in EE games is now 2-5. That wasn’t a relaxed team I saw out there- that was a jazzed up team that played scared. Nice job picking out what you feel is a sleight in my post. Sounds like you want to pick a fight. Welcome to the board, btw.

    I’m not picking a fight. I’ve learned to not fall into the Bill Self trap. EVERY year his teams exceed their talent level in their regular season. Then when a tourney match up up with a team with better talent playing well beats us. I dont usually get disappointed. Heck against VCU we, a freaking blue blood, were starting Brady Morningstar and Tyrel Reed. Great ROLE players but not final four caliber players. I wasnt surprised.

    This year we depended on a very small player. Frank is great! However once the talent levels out and size becomes a huge factor we are in trouble.



  • @Blown Oregon lost to Oklahoma in the Elite 8 last year. They were in the same boat as us and they were cocky and arrogant beyond belief last night.



  • @BigBad Oregon does not have better talent than Kansas.



  • You know who would’ve been a perfect counter to Bell? Carlton Bragg. He had every opportunity to develop and elevate his game this season and just could not get it to click. He can’t even claim having off the court issues as a reason because others on the team has had it much worse than Bragg.



  • @Eric-san said:

    You know who would’ve been a perfect counter to Bell? Carlton Bragg. He had every opportunity to develop and elevate his game this season and just could not get it to click. He can’t even claim having off the court issues as a reason because others on the team has had it much worse than Bragg.

    Um, Bell is like two weight classes over Bragg in addition to being a great shot-blocker. There really is just no comparison. Carlton Bragg was never a real 4.



  • @BigBad Anybody who thinks length wasn’t a big factor wasn’t paying attention last night. They had big guards that shot over us with confidence.



  • @betterfireE I was just talking about being able to match up in size. Bell 6-9 225 Bragg 6-9 240.



  • @betterfireE weren’t they 6-2 6-2 6-4 6-7 and 6-9?



  • @Eric-san

    The height and weight might be comparable but they are worlds apart.



  • @BShark That I agree with, hence the rest of my comment about Bragg not developing.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 good point. Is that from their coach? I heard their post game was bad. Didn’t watch it myself. Stem from contrasting leadership? Frank humble. Brooks an ass?



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 said:

    @BigBad Oregon does not have better talent than Kansas.

    I said “However once the talent levels out and size becomes a huge factor we are in trouble.”

    The talent was level was very, very close last night and the size/length goes to Oregon.



  • Graham’s lack of athleticism really showed last night. Dorsey/Graham and Bell/Lucas is where Oregon had clear cut drastic advantages.



  • @Blown Dillon Brooks is in the Grayson Allen level of ass. Just as dirty as Allen too.



  • I want to see Graham come back as much as anyone but he will not be Mason-ish next year, just not the same kind of player.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    It was somewhat hilarious when K chastised Brooks last year.



  • @BigBad Bullcrap it does. Mason was the only player smaller than the guy he was guarding, but that’s the case almost every single game.



  • @BigBad Frank got his, and the team got what they wanted from Frank this game.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    Graham, Svi and Lucas have decent size for their positions, athleticism is the issue.



  • @BShark I’m not gonna argue the athleticism, but that’s not what @BigBad is saying. He’s saying size and length and KU was had an advantage everywhere except for Mason who is a great defender period and can guard bigger than his size.



  • @BShark said:

    Graham’s lack of athleticism really showed last night. Dorsey/Graham and Bell/Lucas is where Oregon had clear cut drastic advantages.

    Most here dont want to hear that.

    Graham has used the attention Frank gets to get wide open shots and then uses his spastic head fake to clear himself from lower level defenders. Against size and length and equal quickness he struggles.



  • @Eric-san

    Agree but the fact that nobody else could do anything we became one dimensional. Tough to win that way.



  • We have been 1 dimensional all year.

    Excellent 3

    Average perimeter D

    Below average interior d

    Below average low post scoring

    Below average free throw

    All of those factored in last night



  • @Blown Live by the 3, die by the 3.


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